Newbie seeking advice

Newbie seeking advice

Author
Discussion

latham91

101 posts

102 months

Sunday 21st October 2018
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Hi Jack - looks like you're getting good at spotting the rust under the clean looking exteriors! - some expensive bills and/or a lot of work required for that car judging by your photos.

With regard to oil pressure there's a big thread from 2-3 years ago on here (a Chimpongas special!) and basically TVR used various different senders and gauges over the years many of which were mis-matched and hence spurious oil pressure readings. I recently changed the sender on mine to 0-100psi to match the gauge and now get consistent 50-60psi on the gauge but prior to that it would be a max of 30psi and then would wander about down to as low as 5psi which is pretty scary until you know the reason why....

Keep us posted on your search for a car...

Ed

Edited by latham91 on Sunday 21st October 10:01

BeastMaster

443 posts

186 months

Sunday 21st October 2018
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I think if you are looking for a cheap car as a project then that is what you are going to get, the car looked like it was being sold through a dealer so is going to be more money than a private purchase, so was probably in the same place as the first car you visited for less money.

As you are finding out, its the underside of these cars which is key and that is where the cheap cars are - so unless you are willing to take on chassis work, or pay someone to undertake a restoration you will not find what you are looking for with the budget you have.

The good news is that the better cars are becoming stronger money, so a restoration can make the numbers work, at one time it would have been financial suicide to but such a car.

Good luck with the hunt, its now a good time to buy, just remember you only get what you pay for.

ScrumpyJack

Original Poster:

31 posts

144 months

Sunday 21st October 2018
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Guys,
Thank you for your input, it is all helping me in this new environment. Your comments are appreciated and will hopefully help me in finding a suitable TVR for my budget. Yesterday was not wasted as I got to drive another TVR and have a good look around it and start to improve my awareness. Whilst this car had issues it did put into perspective the good points (sound and engine performance) of the first one I looked at. Well I am sure that I will keep on learning with the more I look at.

Ed - I remember your comments about oil pressure so will check out that thread.

Cheers Jack

Edited by ScrumpyJack on Sunday 21st October 23:53

ScrumpyJack

Original Poster:

31 posts

144 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
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BeastMaster said:
I think if you are looking for a cheap car as a project then that is what you are going to get, the car looked like it was being sold through a dealer so is going to be more money than a private purchase, so was probably in the same place as the first car you visited for less money.

As you are finding out, its the underside of these cars which is key and that is where the cheap cars are - so unless you are willing to take on chassis work, or pay someone to undertake a restoration you will not find what you are looking for with the budget you have.

The good news is that the better cars are becoming stronger money, so a restoration can make the numbers work, at one time it would have been financial suicide to but such a car.

Good luck with the hunt, its now a good time to buy, just remember you only get what you pay for.
BM - You have hit the nail on the head here.

CanoeSniffer

926 posts

86 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
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YHM Jack smile

Cult Status Cars

22 posts

142 months

Sunday 28th October 2018
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Hi Ian,
As a reply to this thread, having spent a couple of hours with me chatting and using my facilities and enjoying my hospitality, drinking my tea and generally being very well looked after, do you think it would be polite to ask me permission to post photos on the internet of me, my car and my business?
Especially as your photos portray my car in a poor light, considering the car was the cheapest one on the market in the UK, and was accurately described as being in a generally solid condition with some surface corrosion that would benefit from some preventative treatment and repairs in the future? With plenty of expensive upgrades meaning it was worth the money on a spares / repair basis alone?

You said you were taking photos for your own reference, not to broadcast on the internet? You lied to me?

You have also neglected to mention you were sat at my desk actively trying to negotiate a deal to buy the car, but could not put yourself in a position to actually buy it as you had a motorbike to part exchange which is not particularly valuable or desirable, nor did you have the additional funds immediately available on top.
And I gave you a more than fair part exchange bid for the bike, even though I didn’t want it.

So if you are not in the financial position to buy the cheapest TVR Chimeara on the market, regardless of it’s condition, I do wonder what you are trying to achieve by using a lot of everyone’s time and effort?

This is really frustrating and offensive for a dealer such as myself who puts their heart and soul into being upfront, truthful, patient and helpful in a bid to run a legitimate well regarded business.

You left saying that you were really keen to buy the car and that you were going to try and sell a couple of bikes ASAP in a bid to raise the money, and was going to let me know. You haven’t had the courtesy to let me know you were going to pass on it, for whatever reason. Regardless of what you thought of the car, I just find that rude.

You have posted a warning to others of a potentially wasted journey, when it has to be said it seems you are wasting your own time.
Maybe this can serve as a warning to other sellers about having their time wasted.

The car has now sold for the asking price and the new owner is looking forward to improving the car over the winter.

blueg33

35,563 posts

223 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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Hmm - the advert says and I quote

"the chassis is in good solid order"

The strikes me as being materially misleading

Cult Status Cars

22 posts

142 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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Misleading??

This is what I’m talking- forget the car for a minute, this is about people just being plain rude, sat behind a keyboard rather than actually finding out facts or supplying all the correct information.

I even offered to arrange for the car to be put on a ramp to aid inspection of the car should that be desired. None of those photos show anything more than surface corrosion typical of a 1996 car of this type. There is no compromise to structural rigidity, hence it never having any MOT problems.

Further to that, the previous owner had within the last few hundred miles spent in excess of £6000 preparing and improving the vehicle, at 3 different well regarded performance workshops, including reknowned TVR specialist Neil Garner who I’m sure would not have relieved the owner of circa £5000 for improvements to a car that was not worthy of it.

I have a recent MOT and engineers report stating that the car is in good solid order, and would benefit from further rustproofing to preserve the vehicle. All this was offered and read to the OP.

As a dealer, and a human being, I can do no more than that, and I take very personally any accusation of misleading anybody.

This is simply a statement to protect my business and personal integrity, and filling in a few gaps of info that have been funnily enough omitted by the OP.

The car has now sold and the purchaser has got a bargain because you couldn’t have wished for a better car for the money, hence the OP finding it very hard to buy one in this price range.

TJC46

2,147 posts

205 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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Cult Status Cars said:
Misleading??

................................. None of those photos show anything more than surface corrosion typical of a 1996 car of this type. There is no compromise to structural rigidity, hence it never having any MOT problems. .
As this is on a TVR Chimaera forum, i think a great number of Chimaera owners would beg to differ with the above statement after

looking at the pictures.

What happened between yourself and the O.P is of no interest to me.

What is of interest is the pictures of the chassis and your desription of it, in the above statement.

As an owner who has done a fully body lift on a 1996 Chimaera, that is not surface rust !

I have not seen your original advert, but if you had indicated, that as a minimum the outriggers need replacement, then fair

enough.

Welcome to Pistonheads TVR forums.

Social media is a powerful tool.

We all tend to share information and make our own judgements.yes


Cult Status Cars

22 posts

142 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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As I said, myself and several engineers have been under the car and worked on it and said otherwise, I can’t understand how anyone can make a judgement on the structural integrity of something sat behind a keyboard.

The only thing that is misleading is the photographs, with shadows and flash and colours / exposure to take into account, even the OP saw it with his own eyes and agreed it looked good.
As did the person who has bought it.

As I said I’m just sharing my opinion about how I find this very rude, just because I’m a dealer with a car for sale does not mean it’s a free for all. I don’t go around taking photos of things for sale and saying how crap they are, so I don’t know why someone feels the need to do it.

Anyone can spend thousands of hours posting on Internet forums, some of us just get on with real life.

blueg33

35,563 posts

223 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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You can see rusted through holes in the chassis on the pics posted - how is this "good solid order" ?

I can only assume that you and the various "engineers" were wearing rose tinted glasses when you looked under the car.

people on these forums are exceptionally well versed in TVR's their foibles and weak points. So many have had to spend quite a bit sorting chassis corrosion that they know the problems you can see are just the tip of the iceberg. Even if this car is the exception in this respect, what you can see on the pics is not what a reasonable person would describe as good and solid.

Surely as a seller its just better to avoid making any representation on the condition of parts that can't be easily inspected?



Cult Status Cars

22 posts

142 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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Are we actually looking at the same photos of the same car? Are you confusing my car with other pictured earlier in the thread? Where can you see holes?

So what you are saying is no TVR can possibly be described as ‘solid’ without the body being lifted to inspect? How is that ever achievable in the real world? How is any car ever able to change hands without taking the thing to pieces? Bearing in mind this is a £9k example, and a £15k one could easily be in the same condition?

Sorry but you have lost me now.

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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Judging from the pictures and referenced with experience, the pictures posted don't show anything out of the ordinary.
Any TVR of this age which is being used for most of the year, will look pretty much like that underneath.
However, I would refrain from describing the chassis of any 1995/96 TVR that doesn't show evidence of significant chassis work as 'good and solid' as - again in my experience - there's about a 99% probability that the outrigger corners and seat belt mountings in the rear wheelwells will be shot. Everyone who is serious about these cares will know that, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary everyone will assume the outriggers will need to be replaced as a matter of course.

It's also to be endorsed for people new to the marque to take pictures and solicit the help of the community when deciding whether you have a major issue on your hands, before money changes hands. Being able to accurately assess the car is beneficial to both buyer and seller - who wants to deal with a dissatisfied customer afterwards?

After all, what we have here is an 'average' quality - better than average in parts - Chimaera with some nice and relatively costly upgrades for £9K which is a fair price from a dealer and probably makes a very good buy for someone who understands the issues - I believe it has been subsequently bought by another PH member - why pretend it is anything more? smile



900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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Cult Status Cars said:
So what you are saying is no TVR can possibly be described as ‘solid’ without the body being lifted to inspect?
No 22 year old ones without evidence of significant chassis work (unless they've been mothballed for most of their lives, may be), at least.

ITVRI

196 posts

181 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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The outriggers are average at best. My Chimaera’s (same year) outriggers looked better than these on the photos and when the body was lifted there were holes in several places that you couldn’t see with it on.
Alarm bells for me would be the sealant smeared on top of them and also pushed into the gap between the body and outrigger which will cause more rust by the trapped water which will undoubtedly find its way in.
Anyway the photo in picture 2 shows a hole so either the experts who checked the chassis were rubbish or dodgy IMO.
I get that the dealer selling would be upset by someone criticising a car he is selling and from his argument put forward he obviously believes the chassis is solid and has been told this by these experts or MOT person. But alot on here with exhausts and no cats fitted will know that MOT people will pass cars that in the strict letter of the law probably shouldn’t.


motul1974

721 posts

138 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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I wish to make no comment regarding the car and avert that this thread is based on, BUT, to to show prospective owners what an extremely 'solid' looking chassis from underneath looked like after a body lift.....




You could only ever see this kind of corrosion with a body lift......plus a good hard tapping with a hammer! smash

Cult Status Cars

22 posts

142 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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ITVRI said:
The outriggers are average at best. My Chimaera’s (same year) outriggers looked better than these on the photos and when the body was lifted there were holes in several places that you couldn’t see with it on.
Alarm bells for me would be the sealant smeared on top of them and also pushed into the gap between the body and outrigger which will cause more rust by the trapped water which will undoubtedly find its way in.
Anyway the photo in picture 2 shows a hole so either the experts who checked the chassis were rubbish or dodgy IMO.
I get that the dealer selling would be upset by someone criticising a car he is selling and from his argument put forward he obviously believes the chassis is solid and has been told this by these experts or MOT person. But alot on here with exhausts and no cats fitted will know that MOT people will pass cars that in the strict letter of the law probably shouldn’t.
That isn’t my car...

N7GTX

7,822 posts

142 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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I hope you all and the car dealer are aware that the new owner is just a couple of threads away? The new owner is Technoholic and he has posted a list of items that he intends fixing/updating/improving as he goes along. He seems very happy with his purchase.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I am also confused about the pictures - I believe some may be mixed up here, who knows? (I think the rusty holed chassis is from the black L reg car for sale and that advert states the outriggers will need attention) I will say I was actively following this car along with others as a possible winter project. I realise a car with 47k for well under £10k is going to need repairs and ongoing maintenance. All the other cars under £10k do need work.

The new owner says the speedo does not work, a fairly common problem, but if it was broken at the time of sale, that in itself is an offence. Personally, I am very wary of car dealers who tell you you will get a 3 month RAC warranty - have you ever tried to claim on one? That is meaningless as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 gives you far more protection and is for 6 months other than fair and wear items like brake pads. Those dealers and traders who are listed as Trading Standards approved give a minimum 6 months of course.

It doesn't really matter how much the car sold for, what condition the chassis is in and what was working and what was not, the point is the new owner is very happy with it and knows, that at the price, he will have some work to do to bring it up to 'mint' - his word. He is a hands on guy.

Edited by N7GTX on Monday 29th October 16:01

Cult Status Cars

22 posts

142 months

Monday 29th October 2018
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Anyway thanks for the more recent and sensible replies on this thread, I can’t stand by and let any kind of inflammatory info or photos regarding my business or cars go without input, no matter how casual it seems.

There’s always more to a story than what a few photos can portray, and prime example is people confusing my car with the earlier roached out example with holes in it has happened immediately, just because the info has not been digested properly.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing as they say.

Cult Status Cars

22 posts

142 months

Monday 29th October 2018
quotequote all
N7GTX said:
I hope you all and the car dealer are aware that the new owner is just a couple of threads away? The new owner is Technoholic and he has posted a list of items that he intends fixing/updating/improving as he goes along. He seems very happy with his purchase.

I am also confused about the pictures - I believe some may be mixed up here, who knows? I will say I was actively following this car along with others as a possible winter project. I realise a car with 47k for well under £10k is going to need repairs and ongoing maintenance. All the other cars under £10k do need work.

The new owner says the speedo does not work, a fairly common problem, but if it was broken at the time of sale, that in itself is an offence. Personally, I am very wary of car dealers who tell you you will get a 3 month RAC warranty - have you ever tried to claim on one? That is meaningless as the Consumer Rights Act 2015 gives you far more protection and is for 6 months other than fair and wear items like brake pads. Those dealers and traders who are listed as Trading Standards approved give a minimum 6 months of course.

It doesn't really matter how much the car sold for, what condition the chassis is in and what was working and what was not, the point is the new owner is very happy with it and knows, that at the price, he will have some work to do to bring it up to 'mint' - his word. He is a hands on guy.
Thanks for that, yes the new owner and myself have got on well and there’s a mutual understanding and continued relationship.

The RAC warranties are ok, very good on the newer cars, and goes down in tiers as it gets older. I put one on the older cars simply to give the customer the free 12 months breakdown cover as the major benefit rather than the warranty itself. Warranty and statutory rights are two separate things.

Speedo packing up after I bought it was completely above board and fully explained and verified by myself with paperwork etc before purchase so no issues there. Simply just something to fix and certainly does not constitute an offence.

I work closely with trading standards so I’m fully aware of what is right and wrong or where I can find the answer.

Anyway I’ve had my say on a thread that concerned my business and I’ll let you all get on and enjoy your TVRs in peace