Survey of ownership cost v buying a sorted example .

Survey of ownership cost v buying a sorted example .

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Discussion

QBee

20,949 posts

144 months

Thursday 14th February 2019
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Matthew Poxon said:
Squirrelofwoe said:
Or you capitalise the total cost after making due allowance for an appropriate 'smiles per mile' deduction, then amortise the remaining value at a sensible rate over the total ownership period, disclosing only this annual value to the exchequer (wife) getmecoat
biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin
You've been reading IAS16 without falling asleep........well done!!

CanoeSniffer

926 posts

87 months

Thursday 14th February 2019
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Matthew Poxon said:
As CoG stated as hobbies go, TVR ownership dare I say it is cheap compared to smoking, golf, football drinking etc.
4/5.. No wonder I'm skint banghead

Squirrelofwoe

3,183 posts

176 months

Thursday 14th February 2019
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QBee said:
You've been reading IAS16 without falling asleep........well done!!
hehe

Yex 450

4,583 posts

220 months

Friday 15th February 2019
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Classic Chim said:
So even with the present low resale values as they appear depressed to me it’s a very difficult thing to get a sorted car ( which itself is open to debate ) for 12-15k unless it’s a 4.0 and even then probably needs ongoing work to maintain its condition.
Depending on what people believe is a "sorted car" mine for sale in the classifieds at £16K looks like a good offer wink

Classic Chim

Original Poster:

12,424 posts

149 months

Friday 15th February 2019
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Yex 450 said:
Depending on what people believe is a "sorted car" mine for sale in the classifieds at £16K looks like a good offer wink
It might have been more subtle to have shown off the virtues of your car with a pic or two and a brief description and then maybe a little note at the bottom.
I always enjoy seeing other owners cars and what has gone into them wink

GR_TVR

714 posts

84 months

Friday 15th February 2019
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I purchased my ’96 500 at the start of 2017 with 50k on the clock.
It was a bit of a gamble…the car didn’t run (you could start it sometimes, but it ran like a dog) and had been SORN for around 7 years. The previous owner had only had it for a few months, which obviously set off alarm bells, but I persevered nonetheless!

I’ll try and summarise the condition when I bought it:

Bodywork
It was almost perfect – the paint was in fantastic condition (I later found out it was owned by a detailer for many years, so this is probably why!) with no signs of any previous damage or repairs.
The hood and rear window looked brand new, it must have been replaced very recently although no receipt.

Interior
Again, was in very good condition, although the seats had been resprayed in a slightly different colour. I’m currently rectifying this by respraying the whole interior.
Carpets looked recently changed as well, in really good condition with no fading.

Chassis
In fantastic condition. I really mean fantastic. I was told the car had been garaged its whole life (including a humidity controlled one for at least some of that) and I don’t doubt that.
The earlier silver chassis is certainly holding up well, with no signs of corrosion. Underneath it has been coated with something, although not sure what. It has a kind of plastic feel to it. Seems to be working, anyway!
Don’t know if the outriggers are original or not, but “heavy” testing with a screwdriver and a borescope show no signs of wear, for now anyway. It’s something I’m happy to sort when the time comes.

Four corners
The suspension was pretty tired (although turned out to be more tired than I thought…!) and the brakes also looked tired, although it did have some nice Brembos on the front.
The brake pads literally fell apart when I changed them, so I’m glad it was one of the first things I did!
Had some lovely 17” RL7 alloys in perfect condition. Tyres were 10 years old due to the SORN and right on the limit, so obviously they went on the straight to sort list!

Electrics
Mostly fine, apart from the temperature gauge didn’t work.

Engine and bay
Aluminium radiator (found to be leaking), fans didn’t work. ACT carbon twin jenvey throttle body induction, so had had some fettling in the past. Engine mounts all good, and everything looked clean and tidy.
Oil was low and condition pretty horrific…! But I did have a dyno read out of 340bhp so…

I bought it. £13,500. In the hope that my love for cars and spanner wielding would save me!

It looks like about £25k has been spent on it in previous ownership, from adding invoices and known jobs. The main job was a full engine rebuild at 40k, so the new engine had only done 10k.
It turned up on a trailer with a couple of weeks till the MOT. So I set to work…!

To cut the story down a bit, I’ve spent £4k in my ownership, mainly on the following:

All the service items: brake discs and pads all round incl fluid; oil and filter change; spark plugs and leads; gearbox oil; diff oil; distributor cap; fuel filter…
Stepper motor
New ally rad and coolant
Protech double adjustable suspension
Slave cylinder (blew up about 200m from my house so got it towed back by the RAC!)
Braided clutch hose
Sensors and bits and bobs in the engine
Top ball joints
Tyres
Leather door cards
Rocker cover paint and materials
Leather colourant kit

Etc… (since I can’t remember much else at the moment hehe )

MOT passed with no advisories.

So I got pretty lucky I guess, some sensor changing and using a Mark Adams guide to properly set up components like the TPS fixed all the engine woes, and I’ve now got what I consider to be a fully sorted beast! I’ve definitely saved a lot of money by doing all the work myself.
I don’t know what it’s worth, I’ve no plans to ever sell it so it doesn’t really matter! Agreed valuation on the insurance of £21k.
I've spent more time sorting it than driving it the last couple of years, so now it's at the stage I'm happy with I'm looking forward to getting on with driving it!

Happy days biggrin

Matthew Poxon

5,329 posts

173 months

Friday 15th February 2019
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GR_TVR said:
I purchased my ’96 500 at the start of 2017 with 50k on the clock.
It was a bit of a gamble…the car didn’t run (you could start it sometimes, but it ran like a dog) and had been SORN for around 7 years. The previous owner had only had it for a few months, which obviously set off alarm bells, but I persevered nonetheless!
Sounds like you got a bargain there. I love the ACT twin throttle CF plenum on mine, it really improves the throttle response.

BIG DUNC

1,918 posts

223 months

Friday 15th February 2019
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I bought my 92 Pre-cat Griff as a project in 2005. It had an MOT on it (it shouldn't have had!) so I drove it until that ran out.

It clearly had been a lovely and well cared for car, but when the previous Owner passed away it was left in a damp lock up for several years and that did it no favours. Think mould on the interior and not much electrical worked. The last few MOTs gave advice on a rusty chassis and the damp storage time hadn't improved it.

It came off the road in 2006 and initially the project started well, but then a second child being born rapidly followed by a divorce and a change of job circumstances meant no spare time and no spare money and the project stalled.

I started work again in 2017 and it had its first MOT under my ownership in May last year (2018). The costs of a body off were:-

chassis welded, outriggers, powder coated, £2,000
First Race Tech order (all the bits I thought I would need) £2,000
Second race tech order (all the bits I forgot when I did the first one), £1,000
Sportmotive headlights, pro tech springs and dampers, dash refurb, wheel refurb, some silicon pipes and a few other "luxury" bits £2,500
ACT performance manifolds (actually purchased in 2006) £1,000
All the bits my wife got from motor factors when I said to her every Sunday evening over 18 months "When you are in town this week, can you just get..." £2,000

Prices are approx., but not far out.

What you cannot put a price on is all my spare time for 18 months....

That totals up a lot more than I paid for the car (it was cheap), but a lot less than it is "worth"
What is it "worth"? Its worth what someone would pay for it, but having literally put blood, sweat and tears into it, I am not planning on selling.

It is a very early pre-cat, and other than the manifolds and the headlights, it is very original. It also came from a family friend, so has a certain amount of sentimental value.

I havnt done much to the interior (other than the dashboard which was falling apart) or the bodywork yet. It is presentable as it is, but in due course it will need a respray, a roof and a re-trim. However, I cannot afford any more at present and in case, the object of it was to have a nice car which can be driven regularly and reliably. There will be plenty of time in the future to improve the cosmetics.

The engine is pretty much untouched and may also need attention in the future, but at present it is running well (famous last words).


Edited for grelling spammer
Edited by BIG DUNC on Friday 15th February 13:40


Edited by BIG DUNC on Sunday 17th February 06:58

GR_TVR

714 posts

84 months

Friday 15th February 2019
quotequote all
Matthew Poxon said:
Sounds like you got a bargain there. I love the ACT twin throttle CF plenum on mine, it really improves the throttle response.
I like to think so! Although, I suppose it could easily have gone the other way...!

Agreed on the ACT setup - looks super smart, too cool

Classic Chim

Original Poster:

12,424 posts

149 months

Friday 15th February 2019
quotequote all
BIG DUNC said:
I bought my 92 Pre-cat Griff as a project in 2005. It had an MOT on it (it shouldn't have had!) so I drove it until that ran out.

It clearly had been a lovely and well cared for car, but when the previous Owner past away it was left in a damp lock up for several years and that did it no favours. Think mould on the interior and not much electrical worked. The last few MOTs gave advice on a rusty chassis and the damp storage time hadn't improved it.

It came off the road in 2006 and initially the project started well, but then a second child being born rapidly followed by a divorce and a change of job circumstances meant no spare time and no spare money and the project stalled.

I started work again in 2017 and it had its first MOT under my ownership in May last year (2018). The costs of a body off were:-

chassis welded, outriggers, powder coated, £2,000
First Race Tech order (all the bits I thought I would need) £2,000
Second race tech order (all the bits I forgot when I did the first one), £1,000
Sportmotive headlights, pro tech springs and dampers, dash refurb, wheel refurb, some silicon pipes and a few other "luxury" bits £2,500
ACT performance manifolds (actually purchased in 2006) £1,000
All the bits my wife got from motor factors when I said to her on a Sunday evening "When you are in town this week, can you just get..." £2,000

Prices are approx., but not far out.

What you cannot put a price on is all my spare time for 18 months....

That totals up a lot more than I paid for the car (it was cheap), but a lot less than it is "worth"
What is it "worth"? Its worth what someone would pay for it, but having literally put blood, sweat and tears into it, I am not planning on selling.

It is a very early pre-cat, and other than the manifolds and the headlights, it is very original. It also came from a family friend, so has a certain amount of sentimental value.

I havnt done much to the interior (other than the dashboard which was falling apart) or the bodywork yet. It is presentable as it is, but in due course it will need a respray, a roof and a re-trim. However, I cannot afford any more at present and in case, the object of it was to have a nice car which can be driven regularly and reliably. There will be plenty of time in the future to improve the cosmetics.

The engine is pretty much untouched and may also need attention in the future, but at present it is running well (famous last words).

Nice Post DUNC

I’m having one of those err lean periods where I have to leave the car tucked up nice and warm until I can commit more time/ money to it, there’s no question you can do all the work yourself but the cost is still considerable.



Edited by BIG DUNC on Friday 15th February 13:40

BIG DUNC

1,918 posts

223 months

Friday 15th February 2019
quotequote all
Thanks.
The best bit is that the no.2 wifey loves it. In fact, she has driven it more than I have. That is great as I don’t get grief spending time and money on it.

Classic Chim

Original Poster:

12,424 posts

149 months

Friday 15th February 2019
quotequote all
BIG DUNC said:
Thanks.
The best bit is that the no.2 wifey loves it. In fact, she has driven it more than I have. That is great as I don’t get grief spending time and money on it.
Alls well that ends well.
I admire you tremendously for holding onto it through thick and thin so to speak. It’s easy to give up on these things when events take over.

I’d enjoy it a bit now, that’s what really makes the memories , the driving and meeting other owners and sharing the experience. That and sunny days, coast or country roads and that sound and feel.


BIG DUNC

1,918 posts

223 months

Friday 15th February 2019
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It’s not perfect and as ever, there are still a few snagging items on the list.

But we enjoy it for what it is.

I came about buying it in sad circumstances, but will post about that tomorrow.

BIG DUNC

1,918 posts

223 months

Sunday 17th February 2019
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So, it is just coming up to 14 years ago since I had that phone call. I had a 350i at the time and the call was from a friend of a good family friend. "I hear you have a TVR. Can you help me".

The following weekend I drove to strangers house, about two hours away, to look at a Griff that wouldn't start. The Owner had been in the RAF and had been shot down over Iraq several years previously. His partner (could have been wife, but I don't think they were married) had literally not touched the car since. That was fine, but it was in a damp lock up and time hadn't been kind to it.

After a day of pratting about, which included a new battery and bypassing the immobiliser, we got it started and drove it up the road and back.

Prior to its layup it looked as though it had been cared for and there was a thick file of receipts from TVR specialists. The chassis didn't look too clever, and it needed a dam good clean inside and out. The electrics, or lack of, looked like the biggest short term challenge.

The lady asked me what it was worth and I replied that in its current condition not a great deal, but if she could get an MOT on it and give it a good clean, then quite a lot. We talked about options for selling it and she suggested taking it to dealer just to trade it in "as is". I suggested that she take it for an MOT test and see what it failed on. Then I would her get it MOT'd (unless major work was involved) and advertise it for her and be there for any potential purchasers.

She I asked whether I wanted to buy it. I did really want a Griff, but I had enough projects already at that time and I really wanted to save to buy a decent Griff.

A week later it magically had an MOT. A first time pass, apparently, which surprised me as she said she had done no work to the car and when I had seen it, it had a couple of obvious fails.

A week after that she sent me an e-mail saying that she had taken it to a local specialist and been offered £X, what did I think? I laughed and said that she should go back and ask for at least double, if not three times that amount. She then said that she really wanted it gone, and if I would match what the specialists had offered her, I could have it for that. I explained that she could get more for it, and while I would like to give her more, I couldn't actually afford much more. She was adamant that she only wanted me to match what she had been offered and that she was really grateful for all my help on the day I went to see it and got it started. If I didn't want it, it would go to the specialist as she now just wanted it gone.

Within 24 hours, I was back at her house with a large pile of cash and a bunch of flowers.

Throughout the rebuild I sent photos to the family friend who put us in touch and I think he passed them on. Hopefully this year we will take it to show them the finished product.

Sardonicus

18,952 posts

221 months

Sunday 17th February 2019
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That's a great story , with a good outcome

Classic Chim

Original Poster:

12,424 posts

149 months

Sunday 17th February 2019
quotequote all
BIG DUNC said:
So, it is just coming up to 14 years ago since I had that phone call. I had a 350i at the time and the call was from a friend of a good family friend. "I hear you have a TVR. Can you help me".

The following weekend I drove to strangers house, about two hours away, to look at a Griff that wouldn't start. The Owner had been in the RAF and had been shot down over Iraq several years previously. His partner (could have been wife, but I don't think they were married) had literally not touched the car since. That was fine, but it was in a damp lock up and time hadn't been kind to it.

After a day of pratting about, which included a new battery and bypassing the immobiliser, we got it started and drove it up the road and back.

Prior to its layup it looked as though it had been cared for and there was a thick file of receipts from TVR specialists. The chassis didn't look too clever, and it needed a dam good clean inside and out. The electrics, or lack of, looked like the biggest short term challenge.

The lady asked me what it was worth and I replied that in its current condition not a great deal, but if she could get an MOT on it and give it a good clean, then quite a lot. We talked about options for selling it and she suggested taking it to dealer just to trade it in "as is". I suggested that she take it for an MOT test and see what it failed on. Then I would her get it MOT'd (unless major work was involved) and advertise it for her and be there for any potential purchasers.

She I asked whether I wanted to buy it. I did really want a Griff, but I had enough projects already at that time and I really wanted to save to buy a decent Griff.

A week later it magically had an MOT. A first time pass, apparently, which surprised me as she said she had done no work to the car and when I had seen it, it had a couple of obvious fails.

A week after that she sent me an e-mail saying that she had taken it to a local specialist and been offered £X, what did I think? I laughed and said that she should go back and ask for at least double, if not three times that amount. She then said that she really wanted it gone, and if I would match what the specialists had offered her, I could have it for that. I explained that she could get more for it, and while I would like to give her more, I couldn't actually afford much more. She was adamant that she only wanted me to match what she had been offered and that she was really grateful for all my help on the day I went to see it and got it started. If I didn't want it, it would go to the specialist as she now just wanted it gone.

Within 24 hours, I was back at her house with a large pile of cash and a bunch of flowers.

Throughout the rebuild I sent photos to the family friend who put us in touch and I think he passed them on. Hopefully this year we will take it to show them the finished product.
I can see the chap thanking you for this. If he couldn’t do it I’m sure he’s glad you have.
And what’s so interesting is how someone used to world class tech and outrageous excitement and danger as in RAF chose a Tvr in the first place.

The stories of owners are as fascinating as the cars they have owned and cared for.

Really enjoying these personal tales as that’s what it’s really all about, it’s no mug that owns a Tvr for any length of time let alone fettle and maintain them well.

My brother had a sports career in the army and served in some very dangerous places, my respect for not so much what armed forces do but the professional levels they bring to the job and in the case of the RAF their technical training is something to behold.
My favourite ever drive in my Tvr was at Mariam RAF BASE for a charity track day/ weekend, this young man ( mid 20’s ) id imagine was there as were other RAF chaps and ladies in their uniforms looking mightily impressive and great to talk to, this young chap seemed quite shy but hanging about so I asked him if he wanted a few passenger laps in my car just to soften his nerves sort of thing, his eyes lit up, we had 5 or 6 laps with me giving it everything trying to be totally precise yet right on the edge, he was bright red faced and hot,,,,, we slowed into the pit area and he thanked me and said it was the most amazing thing he’d done in a car,,, we got talking, he was training to be a bomb aimer,,,,,, can you imagine that responsibility. The fact he loved the Tvr’s really stuck with me as my respect for people who risk their lives in our armed forces knows no bounds and are some of the best young talent we have and this boy was no exception.
The effect the Tvr had on him was palpable and thrilled me that someone used to 600 mph and deep in concentration got such a kick out of it. I made his day as he did mine.
I’m deeply proud I shared that moment with him and hope he remembers it as I do, with great admiration respect and compassion.






Technoholic

490 posts

66 months

Sunday 17th February 2019
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After reading this thread I’m not sure I’m clear. What sort of money should I be looking to spend on a sorted mk2 450 or 500, vs one that needs minor fettling (which I don’t mind if chassis is good). Looking for one ASAP so be good to know

Belle427

8,925 posts

233 months

Sunday 17th February 2019
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Why mess around when you can buy something as good as this.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

BIG DUNC

1,918 posts

223 months

Sunday 17th February 2019
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Thanks for the positive comments guys. It is a shame there was a 10 year pause in the project, but the end result is worth waiting for.

The important thing is that I hung on to it through the divorce and for the next few years. I was really tight for cash and had no spare time. Several people tried to buy it off me, and the money was tempting. The only good thing to come out of the divorce (actually there is nothing good about a divorce) was that I got to see my children every weekend (I still do). They were young at the time, and as a single Dad I couldn't just go out to the garage to play on the car.

It was in a nice warm dehumidified garage and I told myself it wasn't deteriorating. As the kids got older they became more independent and less interested in Dad (screens took over) and my new wife (also a petrol head) started taking an interest in the car shaped pile of old sheets and blankets at the back of the garage. 1st Jan, 2017, it was my new years resolution to get back on it, although I didn't actually start properly until Easter.


Regarding how much should you spend on one that needs a bit of fettling? That depends on how much you like fettling, but it is probably cheaper long term and easier to spend more on one that doesn't need fettling, unless you really enjoy the fettling.

Technoholic

490 posts

66 months

Sunday 17th February 2019
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Ideally wanted mk2 styling and interior if I can find it.