Ceramic cap HT leads, plug fitting

[bobfather]

If I have understood this correctly the current supply of ceramic cap leads are for spark plugs with smaller terminal pips. Assuming that this is correct, would smaller pips fit our standard plug post thread. I've always liked the idea of ceramic caps but I don't want the hassle of having them break while removing the caps

[Classic Chim]

Mixed views. They are the best solution and look very neat, but I like to check plugs quite often so any risk of them breaking does put me right off unfortunately.
Some owners have reported they are very tight and difficult to remove. Some have a special tool or something they have made that pulls them from bottom up and off apparently.
Be nice to see what this tool is?

Overall I like the look of socks and for me they work fine and do seem to deflect a lot of heat.
They never feel particularly hot to touch that I can remember so why change them is my view. You still need to tie up your leads so they can’t turn and rest on manifolds whatever caps your using imho.

[bobfather]

Genuine Lucas leads with double socks. My number 8 sock is looking bleached. I still have the coolant pipes so space is limited there. They are all pulled up tight and the number 8 lead looks perfect, no sign of heat stress but I can't help feeling that this could be my occasional missfire

[Classic Chim]

Its such a tight fit maybe we should just consider the ones at the back a consumable item and order a few spare leads and socks for those specific ones. I have the same bleaching effect but only because that one your showing span and rested on manifold, didn’t effect plug cap so I got away with it. It’s now very securely pulled up tight.

I didn’t get a cap on properly one time, that gave a slight misfire possibly when going over bumps but I didn’t actually realise until I’d removed that cap and noticed some corrosion where poor contact was being made, the female part in the cap was slightly squashed from my ham fisted fitting of it previously and it never sat home fully. Cleaned it all up and it’s been fine since but I bet now it’s been stood quite a lot there’s rust in that contact area, need a new plug cap basically!

[QBee]

I use iridium 6 plugs on my car. Lexus rate them good for 60,000 miles on the LS400, so mine won’t need to be checked or changed any time soon.

[Classic Chim]

^^^^^^ I get this but I’m paranoid about internal engine health so check plug colour every now and then for that very reason.
I have a few motorcycle mates who avoid using Iridium because of rumours the tip can break off mainly due to the high revving nature of bikes and the vibrations although I find this possibly a bit far fetched so I just keep an eye on them for my own sanity more than anything.

My idle and cold starts since the Iridium plugs is very smooth so I’ve no intention to remove them anytime soon

[Sardonicus]

Dont worry Alun about Iridium plug electrode failure/tips breaking never witnessed one and this late stuff runs hotter leaner and higher CR's than your RV8, more than likely stray debris reaching the combustion chamber which can happen on any motor , no air cleaner , dropping things in the intake by mistake etc never understood how the later occurs however

Edited by Sardonicus on Monday 20th May 09:42

[TwinKam]

QBee said:

I use iridium 6 plugs on my car. Lexus rate them good for 60,000 miles on the LS400, so mine won’t need to be checked or changed any time soon.

It's a common but dangerous misconception that 'long life' plugs don't need checking... they often won't shift after half the interval, especially if they weren't fitted with Copaslip or similar initially.
In my view they were only invented to compensate for st poor engine designs where spark plug access is limited or impossible without removing inlet manifolds etc... yes, I'm looking at you VAG, Renault. Nissan etc etc.
All spark plugs can fail prematurely, 'long life' types included and, as previously stated, a spark plug can speak volumes...read the 'Low rev misfire' thread in the Cerb Forum...
All spark plugs should be removed, inspected, cleaned and the threads re (copper)greased before reciting every 12 months/ 10,000 miles. Period.

[Classic Chim]

Sardonicus said:

Dont worry Alun about Iridium plug electrode failure/tips breaking never witnessed one and this late stuff runs hotter leaner and higher CR's than your RV8, more than likely stray debris reaching the combustion chamber which can happen on any motor , no air cleaner , dropping things in the intake by mistake etc never understood how the later occurs however

Edited by Sardonicus on Monday 20th May 09:42

And rest

Thanks Simon.
I think I’m paranoid as the post above suggests about the plugs getting very difficult to remove which is another reason I just loosen them at times.
They are often tight even though I never over tighten them so it’s all just peace of mind mostly.

[Sardonicus]

Dont bother with copper grease it just clags up the threads a smear of this on the 1 st few plug threads is all you need Alun as far more uses bolt threads etc

[TwinKam]

Sardonicus said:

Dont bother with copper grease it just clags up the threads a smear of this on the 1 st few plug threads is all you need Alun as far more uses bolt threads etc

...you youngsters and your modern ideas

[Sardonicus]

TwinKam said:

...you youngsters and your modern ideas

[TwinKam]

Sardonicus said:

TwinKam said:

...you youngsters and your modern ideas

...nowt can beat a smear of tallow...

[QBee]

So many uses for candles....

[ChimpOnGas]

TwinKam said:

Sardonicus said:

TwinKam said:

...you youngsters and your modern ideas

...nowt can beat a smear of tallow...

Actually the modern thinking for spark plug threads is to use nothing at all, I say modern but NGK have been recommending using nothing for over 30 years since they developed and applied their anti-seize thread plating used on all their plugs, the use of copperslip or other anti-seize compounds interferes with the correct torquing procedure and settings,

Also if you think about it a spark plug earths through the head so you want the best connection possible, any grease on the threads will only hinder conductivity so I'd follow the advice of NGK where this is concerned as they know a thing or two about these things and do not offer poor advice any more than they make poor products.

https://www.driven2automotive.com/blog/why-you-sho...

[Sardonicus]

ChimpOnGas said:

Actually the modern thinking for spark plug threads is to use nothing at all, I say modern but NGK have been recommending using nothing for over 30 years since they developed and applied their anti-seize thread plating used on all their plugs, the use of copperslip or other anti-seize compounds interferes with the correct torquing procedure and settings,

Also if you think about it a spark plug earths through the head so you want the best connection possible, any grease on the threads will only hinder conductivity so I'd follow the advice of NGK where this is concerned as they know a thing or two about these things and do not offer poor advice any more than they make poor products.

https://www.driven2automotive.com/blog/why-you-sho...

Well thats one bit of advice I dont agree with from NGK especially seeing as they was the plug of choice when I worked for Honda and we often see No3 cylinder plug threads (hottest cylinder) draw out on plug removal on the Prelude and Accord 12 valve motors (and yes they was coated back then an puckka Japan plugs not France like now) we had a ready supply of Wurth Time-serts just for this repair, if look at the grounding area (threads) you have compared to the little plug nipple at the top it dont add up never had an issue with grounding using a small amount of anti-seize and will continue too after 35 years + if you wonder why vehicle manufacturers dont do it probably for the same reason they dont lube drive-shaft CV hub splines COST and yes they seize too and I have never torqued a spark plug in my life and never will its something only time on the tools giveth .... its called feel , if you dont possess this knack stay away from the tools

Edited by Sardonicus on Monday 20th May 17:42

[ChimpOnGas]

Well therms the facts, and it's not my advice but that of the mighty NGK themselves, advice I personally wouldn't argue with.

NGK are not in the business of giving poor advice indeed if their advice lead to pulled threads people would soon lose faith in NGK and their products so it really would be business suicide for them to get this wrong.

NGK are involved in some serious R&D and I'm inclined to trust what they say as their reputation goes before them, I've never torqued a plug either as you can easily learn the feel of the pinch. That pinch is the crushable washer compressing of course which many who have a habit of regularly whipping their plugs out to look at them seldom replace, this is when we find plugs going lose with all the carbon up the thread issues and bad earthing issues that go with it.

Plug washers are a one time thing, once crushed they are done so need replacing, fortunately they are cheap as chips so there's no excused not to fit new if you're an incurable plug sniffer

https://www.gsparkplug.com/ignition/spark-plug-acc...

[Sardonicus]

ChimpOnGas said:

Well therms the facts, and it's not my advice but that of the mighty NGK themselves, advice I personally wouldn't argue with.

NGK are not in the business of giving poor advice indeed if their advice lead to pulled threads people would soon lose faith in NGK and their products so it really would be business suicide for them to get this wrong.

NGK are involved in some serious R&D and I'm inclined to trust what they say as their reputation goes before them, I've never torqued a plug either as you can easily learn the feel of the pinch. That pinch is the crushable washer compressing of course which many who have a habit of regularly whipping their plugs out to look at them seldom replace, this is when we find plugs going lose with all the carbon up the thread issues and bad earthing issues that go with it.

Plug washers are a one time thing, once crushed they are done so need replacing, fortunately they are cheap as chips so there's no excused not to fit new if you're an incurable plug sniffer

https://www.gsparkplug.com/ignition/spark-plug-acc...

Dont take it as a knock of your post Dave just there's a world of difference reading and doing and I can only speak from experience I am dealing with grounding issues on a regular basis so feel I have the right to comment and a plug thread and washer area for ground is st loads resistance due to lube will not be measurable even with the best multimeter trust me I would rather not have a cylinder head filled with inserts due to galling or plug seizure or otherwise each to their own anyway back to thread

Edited by Sardonicus on Monday 20th May 23:14

[bobfather]

My two penneth, I've never lubricated a plug thread in 42 years of servicing cars for myself and my extended family. That said I did have a problem with the lower three plugs in my Smart Roadster. Two plugs per cylinder. Top plugs are easily accessible, bottom plugs require removal of rear windows, rear wings and rear panel so people (even garages) claim to have changed them but I suspect they often don't. I had a hell of a job encouraging those to come out.

I think time may be the issue, as long as you're removing the plugs regularly then they won't be difficult. Perhaps iridium plugs left in for many years could be an issue

[Classic Chim]

bobfather said:

My two penneth, I've never lubricated a plug thread in 42 years of servicing cars for myself and my extended family. That said I did have a problem with the lower three plugs in my Smart Roadster. Two plugs per cylinder. Top plugs are easily accessible, bottom plugs require removal of rear windows, rear wings and rear panel so people (even garages) claim to have changed them but I suspect they often don't. I had a hell of a job encouraging those to come out.

I think time may be the issue, as long as you're removing the plugs regularly then they won't be difficult. Perhaps iridium plugs left in for many years could be an issue

^^^^^

I find most plugs come out a bit easier with the heads slightly warmed up.
It’s just cracking that seal and your away.

At the end of the day you can tell a lot by the plugs so regular checks are part of a good maintenance schedule.
I started doing some home porting with very little knowledge, started looking into induction,VE how the RV tends to deliver more air into the r/h bank, the middle inlet runners being shorter and a direct path in,, i could go on, safe to say I now look at the colour of each plug with a very different level of understanding and realise the differences in each plugs condition and why. Fuel mixes better into the centre pots is my conclusion, Ive done a lot of work on the outside runners to straighten them as far as I dare and there is now an almost direct path with less collecting and bouncing off the walls but I’m trying to keep those outside runners slightly narrower because they need air speed. Plug colour got me thinking about all this really!
Plugs will tell there own story one day if I ever finish the job.

That and the clock on the 1/4 mile.
Spoke to a friend who has a 1970’s Mercedes with a massive American engine and Nos, upto about 900 hp if pushed who drag races and was showing it at a bike festival, I mentioned my time on the drag strip and he was genuinely impressed,,,I was stoked

Edited by Classic Chim on Monday 20th May 23:07

Edited by Classic Chim on Monday 20th May 23:12

Edited by Classic Chim on Monday 20th May 23:13