High mileage chimaera
Discussion
Planning on going to take a look at a 1995 4.0 chimaera with c 100k miles. Last owner for 16 years, done a few thousand miles a year in that time, no advisories on any of the recent MOTs, invoices all neat in folders, apparently serviced by a tvr specialist every second year and a non specialist every other year with plenty of invoices for work including to the outriggers.
Wanted to check - are these engines generally fine at higher miles? I've read conflicting reports that its either a big increased reliable rover v8 or lots of stories about rebuilds and worn cams at much lower mileage, and that the chain needs replaced at 100k.
It's well priced and the intention would be to do the normal used car checks but not an inspection. (Just for time reasons).
Thanks!
Wanted to check - are these engines generally fine at higher miles? I've read conflicting reports that its either a big increased reliable rover v8 or lots of stories about rebuilds and worn cams at much lower mileage, and that the chain needs replaced at 100k.
It's well priced and the intention would be to do the normal used car checks but not an inspection. (Just for time reasons).
Thanks!
Edited by Integroo on Sunday 4th August 23:54
These V8's will do plenty of miles if regularly or well maintained just like any cars. I understand the cams can need replacing which isn't a disastrous job or cost. On a 100k might have been done already maybe not. Worth checking.
The chassis and outriggers are key at this age and mileage. Nif they haven't been done they likely will need doing either immediately or at some point in the next few years.
Also things like fuel lines/hoses and other hoses may be past their best and need replacements if not already done.
What price is it?
The chassis and outriggers are key at this age and mileage. Nif they haven't been done they likely will need doing either immediately or at some point in the next few years.
Also things like fuel lines/hoses and other hoses may be past their best and need replacements if not already done.
What price is it?
Thanks. It's the one on PH at 7750. Seems cheap enough to take a punt on with the cheapest on AT being 10.5k. At that price id be okay buying it sticking it into a specialist and asking what needs fixed and if it was a grand or so i wouldnt complain. Want to avoid catastrophic engine failure for obvious reasons
Obviously you can't really guarantee the engine in any used car, but it's pretty clear a 24 year old TVR with a 100,000 mile engine is going to be closer to it's demise than most, which lets be honest with ourselves here is why the car is at the cheaper end of the market. I always look at Range Rovers and Discoveries to gauge the potential mileage capability of the Rover V8, its the same engine but has a harder life in the 4x4 as it has to move 2 tons of bluff fronted vehicle through the air and these vehicles are often used for towing work.
There were tens of thousands more Range Rovers and Discoveries built than Rover V8 TVRs and rather than being cosseted toys they were vehicles expected to do a proper job of work on a daily basis, and as they got older and less valuable the quality of servicing and maintenance could become sketchy.
I've done quite a bit of research into this and it's super common to find V8 Range Rovers and Discoveries with 120,000 miles on the clock that are still going strong so given the same engine in a 1,060kg TVR has a much easier life and will likely have enjoyed better engine oil and had it changed more frequently so I see no reason why we all shouldn't expect 150,000 miles from our TVR Rover V8 engines.
The elephant in the TVR room is that engines definitely last longer when they're used regularly, this is why we see stratospheric mileages from taxis especially the ones shared between two drivers that force their shared car to run two back to back shifts, the engines in such taxis seldom even cool down fully so this is where we often see crazy mileages of 500,000 miles and above.
As I say TVR is a toy really, so while it may have lead an easy life that life will have included long layups between use which is never a good thing for engine longevity. Cold starts are where most engine wear occurs and cold starts after long layups are where the oil has been allowed to drain away from the bearing shells and off the cam lobes and follower faces. Without use water pump seals fail and gaskets dry out so the engine that's used regularly is definitely more likely to achieve a higher mileage than the one that's been used less frequently.
As long as the car is warmed up fully and actually driven this regular use needn't add huge mileage, after the engine is fully warmed and been put under a bit of load the important element is how regularly this happens not how many miles are covered. So I'd be trying to establish how often the owner actually uses the car and if he lays it up over the winter which may well be good for the outriggers but it most certainly is not good for the engine.
The trouble you've got is you don't really know how the car has been used and maintained for its entire 24 year life, stuck odometers are also common so you don't actually know for sure if the car has truly covered the 100,000 miles its showing or if its more. One thing is for sure buying any used car is a lottery so buying a 100,000 mile TVR needs careful consideration, saying that if its an honest car that's been used regularly throughout the year and every year I'd definitely expect a lot more than 100,00 miles out of its Rover V8 engine.
If you wanted to throw a few quid at making sure you had the highest chances of seeing 150,000 miles from a 100,000 mile Rover V8 it would be well worth checking and fitting a new cam and followers if needed, and fitting a new water pump, these two jobs would be best done at the same time and by their nature demand the oil and antifreeze is changed which are both critical fluids to ensure long engine life.
Other than that its down to you to make your checks and satisfy yourself what you're buying has some life left in it, because while there a thousands of Range Rovers out there that have exceeded 150,000 miles without engine work there are also thousands that had liner slip issues and other catastrophic failures before they even reached the 100,000 mile mark.
Capable of doing 150,000 miles and whether it will do 150,000 miles are two very different things, that's what I mean about buying a used car being a lottery, you can reduce the chances of buying a dog by inspecting the car properly but no one can guarantee the life of the engine which is why used cars are are always sold privately as 'Sold As Seen'.
I wish you well with your potential purchase.
There were tens of thousands more Range Rovers and Discoveries built than Rover V8 TVRs and rather than being cosseted toys they were vehicles expected to do a proper job of work on a daily basis, and as they got older and less valuable the quality of servicing and maintenance could become sketchy.
I've done quite a bit of research into this and it's super common to find V8 Range Rovers and Discoveries with 120,000 miles on the clock that are still going strong so given the same engine in a 1,060kg TVR has a much easier life and will likely have enjoyed better engine oil and had it changed more frequently so I see no reason why we all shouldn't expect 150,000 miles from our TVR Rover V8 engines.
The elephant in the TVR room is that engines definitely last longer when they're used regularly, this is why we see stratospheric mileages from taxis especially the ones shared between two drivers that force their shared car to run two back to back shifts, the engines in such taxis seldom even cool down fully so this is where we often see crazy mileages of 500,000 miles and above.
As I say TVR is a toy really, so while it may have lead an easy life that life will have included long layups between use which is never a good thing for engine longevity. Cold starts are where most engine wear occurs and cold starts after long layups are where the oil has been allowed to drain away from the bearing shells and off the cam lobes and follower faces. Without use water pump seals fail and gaskets dry out so the engine that's used regularly is definitely more likely to achieve a higher mileage than the one that's been used less frequently.
As long as the car is warmed up fully and actually driven this regular use needn't add huge mileage, after the engine is fully warmed and been put under a bit of load the important element is how regularly this happens not how many miles are covered. So I'd be trying to establish how often the owner actually uses the car and if he lays it up over the winter which may well be good for the outriggers but it most certainly is not good for the engine.
The trouble you've got is you don't really know how the car has been used and maintained for its entire 24 year life, stuck odometers are also common so you don't actually know for sure if the car has truly covered the 100,000 miles its showing or if its more. One thing is for sure buying any used car is a lottery so buying a 100,000 mile TVR needs careful consideration, saying that if its an honest car that's been used regularly throughout the year and every year I'd definitely expect a lot more than 100,00 miles out of its Rover V8 engine.
If you wanted to throw a few quid at making sure you had the highest chances of seeing 150,000 miles from a 100,000 mile Rover V8 it would be well worth checking and fitting a new cam and followers if needed, and fitting a new water pump, these two jobs would be best done at the same time and by their nature demand the oil and antifreeze is changed which are both critical fluids to ensure long engine life.
Other than that its down to you to make your checks and satisfy yourself what you're buying has some life left in it, because while there a thousands of Range Rovers out there that have exceeded 150,000 miles without engine work there are also thousands that had liner slip issues and other catastrophic failures before they even reached the 100,000 mile mark.
Capable of doing 150,000 miles and whether it will do 150,000 miles are two very different things, that's what I mean about buying a used car being a lottery, you can reduce the chances of buying a dog by inspecting the car properly but no one can guarantee the life of the engine which is why used cars are are always sold privately as 'Sold As Seen'.
I wish you well with your potential purchase.
I bought mine at roughly 85,000 miles 10 years ago, and is now at 120,000 with a turbo and the engine still has never been opened or caused any issues.
I think buying a high mileage one has paid off for me
I think the engine will come out for some work next year (or the year after) but that will be mainly due to prepare it for more power.
Standard engine rebuilds are around £3k I believe (less if you can do some work yourself). A higher capacity version with fancy heads etc will set you back £5k+)
I think buying a high mileage one has paid off for me
I think the engine will come out for some work next year (or the year after) but that will be mainly due to prepare it for more power.
Standard engine rebuilds are around £3k I believe (less if you can do some work yourself). A higher capacity version with fancy heads etc will set you back £5k+)
Edited by AceOfHearts on Monday 5th August 08:54
Seems decent but the devil is in the detail. Essential to get it up on a ramp and look underneath. If it needs outriggers budget on £2k. if it needs other main chassis work budget substantially more. Engine rebuild is circa £5k+ for a decent /spec build.
I remember seeing this car advertised way back in April. Can't remember where or for how much. Will see if I can find it. Either it has been for sale for some time or the current owner bought it and is moving it on fairly soon after.
Can you check how long the current owner has had it?
If it checks out and is a good car it is a very good price. I would have my suspicions at that price though. The difference between buying a bad one cheap and a decent one sorted is not that much and often buying a better one makes more sense medium to long term. A cheap one can be cheap to start with and can work out more expensive quite quickly.
Not sure where you are but you are welcome to look at my Chimaera if near Potters Bar way as a comparison. It is not for sale but might help to compare. I am wobbling and thinking to change but not decided yet. I am having mine serviced at Bespoke in a couple of weeks. Might be worth checking what they have in stock as well if you are that way.
I remember seeing this car advertised way back in April. Can't remember where or for how much. Will see if I can find it. Either it has been for sale for some time or the current owner bought it and is moving it on fairly soon after.
Can you check how long the current owner has had it?
If it checks out and is a good car it is a very good price. I would have my suspicions at that price though. The difference between buying a bad one cheap and a decent one sorted is not that much and often buying a better one makes more sense medium to long term. A cheap one can be cheap to start with and can work out more expensive quite quickly.
Not sure where you are but you are welcome to look at my Chimaera if near Potters Bar way as a comparison. It is not for sale but might help to compare. I am wobbling and thinking to change but not decided yet. I am having mine serviced at Bespoke in a couple of weeks. Might be worth checking what they have in stock as well if you are that way.
rockits said:
Seems decent but the devil is in the detail. Essential to get it up on a ramp and look underneath. If it needs outriggers budget on £2k. if it needs other main chassis work budget substantially more. Engine rebuild is circa £5k+ for a decent /spec build.
I remember seeing this car advertised way back in April. Can't remember where or for how much. Will see if I can find it. Either it has been for sale for some time or the current owner bought it and is moving it on fairly soon after.
Can you check how long the current owner has had it?
If it checks out and is a good car it is a very good price. I would have my suspicions at that price though. The difference between buying a bad one cheap and a decent one sorted is not that much and often buying a better one makes more sense medium to long term. A cheap one can be cheap to start with and can work out more expensive quite quickly.
Not sure where you are but you are welcome to look at my Chimaera if near Potters Bar way as a comparison. It is not for sale but might help to compare. I am wobbling and thinking to change but not decided yet. I am having mine serviced at Bespoke in a couple of weeks. Might be worth checking what they have in stock as well if you are that way.
Thanks for the input. The current owner has had it since 2003, so it's either been for sale for a while or he listed it and then changed his mind. He says its had whatever needs done to it fixed, and it only wants for a bit of tlc to the paint, a respray if it were to be perfect again. However, it hasn't been driven much by him, so perhaps more use would mean more problems. I remember seeing this car advertised way back in April. Can't remember where or for how much. Will see if I can find it. Either it has been for sale for some time or the current owner bought it and is moving it on fairly soon after.
Can you check how long the current owner has had it?
If it checks out and is a good car it is a very good price. I would have my suspicions at that price though. The difference between buying a bad one cheap and a decent one sorted is not that much and often buying a better one makes more sense medium to long term. A cheap one can be cheap to start with and can work out more expensive quite quickly.
Not sure where you are but you are welcome to look at my Chimaera if near Potters Bar way as a comparison. It is not for sale but might help to compare. I am wobbling and thinking to change but not decided yet. I am having mine serviced at Bespoke in a couple of weeks. Might be worth checking what they have in stock as well if you are that way.
I suppose the problem is are you able to tell for certain that the 12k one doesn't have engine wear or chassis issues/hidden rust etc? Bespoke has two in (both sold) but he sold a 56k mile example of 20k - surely a 7k example wouldn't cost me 13k in a year ...
This one ticks the boxes in terms of owner etc. - current owner for sixteen years, garaged, retired gentleman that explains he is now too old for it, invoices neatly arranged in chronological order in a folder, what looks like a big house in Cambridge etc. I wonder if I could chip a bit off the price if there isn't evidence of any work to the engine - 7k would seem a steal.
In terms of what car, I am looking for a 2 seater rwd soft top, ideally with an engine that isn't a 4 cyl, and where insurance isn't ridiculous (which on a lot of modern machinery it is because of my SE London postcode but older cars tend to be cheaper), and that is practical enough for a week away. I wasn't really looking at Chimaera's because they were more than what I wanted to spend - was looking at spending 5 to 8k, and was mainly looking at 350i Wedges, Alfa Spyder's and Mk1 MX-5's. Then this one popped up and ticked a lot of boxes.
I am not looking to run the car on a shoestring - but would hope to be spending something like 1/2/3k a year, and not have to buy a car that immediately needs 10k of work (that would sting, a lot - actually would be more likely to punt it on with issues declared and lose a few grand).
The offer to view yours is brilliant but unfortunately I live in Zone 2 SE London and with work, getting out during the week ie before I intend to view this at the weekend is impossible.
You pay your money you take your chances ... how bad an idea can it really be
Edited by Integroo on Monday 5th August 09:42
Integroo said:
Thanks for the input. The current owner has had it since 2003, so it's either been for sale for a while or he listed it and then changed his mind. He says its had whatever needs done to it fixed, and it only wants for a bit of tlc to the paint, a respray if it were to be perfect again. However, it hasn't been driven much by him, so perhaps more use would mean more problems.
I suppose the problem is are you able to tell for certain that the 12k one doesn't have engine wear or chassis issues/hidden rust etc? Bespoke has two in (both sold) but he sold a 56k mile example of 20k - surely a 7k example wouldn't cost me 13k in a year ...
This one ticks the boxes in terms of owner etc. - current owner for sixteen years, garaged, retired gentleman that explains he is now too old for it, invoices neatly arranged in chronological order in a folder, what looks like a big house in Cambridge etc. I wonder if I could chip a bit off the price if there isn't evidence of any work to the engine - 7k would seem a steal.
In terms of what car, I am looking for a 2 seater rwd soft top, ideally with an engine that isn't a 4 cyl, and where insurance isn't ridiculous (which on a lot of modern machinery it is because of my SE London postcode but older cars tend to be cheaper), and that is practical enough for a week away. I wasn't really looking at Chimaera's because they were more than what I wanted to spend - was looking at spending 5 to 8k, and was mainly looking at 350i Wedges, Alfa Spyder's and Mk1 MX-5's. Then this one popped up and ticked a lot of boxes.
I am not looking to run the car on a shoestring - but would hope to be spending something like 1/2/3k a year, and not have to buy a car that immediately needs 10k of work (that would sting, a lot - actually would be more likely to punt it on with issues declared and lose a few grand).
The offer to view yours is brilliant but unfortunately I live in Zone 2 SE London and with work, getting out during the week ie before I intend to view this at the weekend is impossible.
You pay your money you take your chances ... how bad an idea can it really be
It does sound decent enough at that price. I wouldn't expect too much on the bodywork as if someone describes it as fair then it will be far from perfect and you wouldn't expect it to be at that price. If that doesn't bother you then it could make sense.I suppose the problem is are you able to tell for certain that the 12k one doesn't have engine wear or chassis issues/hidden rust etc? Bespoke has two in (both sold) but he sold a 56k mile example of 20k - surely a 7k example wouldn't cost me 13k in a year ...
This one ticks the boxes in terms of owner etc. - current owner for sixteen years, garaged, retired gentleman that explains he is now too old for it, invoices neatly arranged in chronological order in a folder, what looks like a big house in Cambridge etc. I wonder if I could chip a bit off the price if there isn't evidence of any work to the engine - 7k would seem a steal.
In terms of what car, I am looking for a 2 seater rwd soft top, ideally with an engine that isn't a 4 cyl, and where insurance isn't ridiculous (which on a lot of modern machinery it is because of my SE London postcode but older cars tend to be cheaper), and that is practical enough for a week away. I wasn't really looking at Chimaera's because they were more than what I wanted to spend - was looking at spending 5 to 8k, and was mainly looking at 350i Wedges, Alfa Spyder's and Mk1 MX-5's. Then this one popped up and ticked a lot of boxes.
I am not looking to run the car on a shoestring - but would hope to be spending something like 1/2/3k a year, and not have to buy a car that immediately needs 10k of work (that would sting, a lot - actually would be more likely to punt it on with issues declared and lose a few grand).
The offer to view yours is brilliant but unfortunately I live in Zone 2 SE London and with work, getting out during the week ie before I intend to view this at the weekend is impossible.
You pay your money you take your chances ... how bad an idea can it really be
Edited by Integroo on Monday 5th August 09:42
It had its last service in July 2018 so has either just had one or is due one as they are annual service intervals. I would check it has had one and maybe if not that needs a chip off the price. Sounds like genuine seller.
Cazana shows some of the details of the previous ad:
https://cazana.com/uk/car/A18GBH
As you say at that price how bad can it really be.....only you can say. Take a good torch and look underneath. Any signs of chassis rot or rust I would walk away but if sound it might be worth a punt. Best thing is to view it, drive it and see. It would seem a little odd that at that price nobody has bought it. Unless they have been to see it and decided against it. See what you find on the viewing.
There is a guy in Enfield (Phil) that does TVR inpsections and knows a fair bit on TVR's you could always use to assist you if you need some help.
http://www.sportscarinspections.co.uk/
I do not know Phil and am not related but came across him when looking for a Tuscan years ago.
rockits said:
It does sound decent enough at that price. I wouldn't expect too much on the bodywork as if someone describes it as fair then it will be far from perfect and you wouldn't expect it to be at that price. If that doesn't bother you then it could make sense.
It had its last service in July 2018 so has either just had one or is due one as they are annual service intervals. I would check it has had one and maybe if not that needs a chip off the price. Sounds like genuine seller.
Cazana shows some of the details of the previous ad:
https://cazana.com/uk/car/A18GBH
As you say at that price how bad can it really be.....only you can say. Take a good torch and look underneath. Any signs of chassis rot or rust I would walk away but if sound it might be worth a punt. Best thing is to view it, drive it and see. It would seem a little odd that at that price nobody has bought it. Unless they have been to see it and decided against it. See what you find on the viewing.
There is a guy in Enfield (Phil) that does TVR inpsections and knows a fair bit on TVR's you could always use to assist you if you need some help.
http://www.sportscarinspections.co.uk/
I do not know Phil and am not related but came across him when looking for a Tuscan years ago.
Thank you. I have dropped Phil a message - if he is available, it would probably be £200 or so well spent. The chap said on the phone it was serviced last July - not so clear if that was July 18 or July 19, but lets presume July 18 and so needs a service - that is fine as I would want a specialist to service it anyway, but is a good lever to chip the price. It had its last service in July 2018 so has either just had one or is due one as they are annual service intervals. I would check it has had one and maybe if not that needs a chip off the price. Sounds like genuine seller.
Cazana shows some of the details of the previous ad:
https://cazana.com/uk/car/A18GBH
As you say at that price how bad can it really be.....only you can say. Take a good torch and look underneath. Any signs of chassis rot or rust I would walk away but if sound it might be worth a punt. Best thing is to view it, drive it and see. It would seem a little odd that at that price nobody has bought it. Unless they have been to see it and decided against it. See what you find on the viewing.
There is a guy in Enfield (Phil) that does TVR inpsections and knows a fair bit on TVR's you could always use to assist you if you need some help.
http://www.sportscarinspections.co.uk/
I do not know Phil and am not related but came across him when looking for a Tuscan years ago.
Integroo said:
This all sounds reasonably promising. I am just trying to avoid one that instantly needs 5k on engine and/or chassis work Look forward to viewing it hopefully on Friday. If I am standing in front of it with cash in my pocket I am sure it will be coming home with me 
At least you're being realistic. Look forward to viewing it hopefully on Friday. If I am standing in front of it with cash in my pocket I am sure it will be coming home with me 
but budget for other stuff. My last Chimaera had received a small fortune in expenditure but I still had to replace the front wishbones, and all the tyres. And of course, 'while you're there,' new balljoints, ARB bushes, droplinks etc. and refurbished the wheels...….
ianwayne said:
At least you're being realistic. but budget for other stuff.
My last Chimaera had received a small fortune in expenditure but I still had to replace the front wishbones, and all the tyres. And of course, 'while you're there,' new balljoints, ARB bushes, droplinks etc. and refurbished the wheels...….
I'm okay with paying to replace parts etc over time - it's a 25 year old sports car. It's just the big ticket things that I want to avoid. but budget for other stuff. My last Chimaera had received a small fortune in expenditure but I still had to replace the front wishbones, and all the tyres. And of course, 'while you're there,' new balljoints, ARB bushes, droplinks etc. and refurbished the wheels...….
Edited by Integroo on Tuesday 6th August 16:34
Hi.
I agree with the last post.
I was worried about buying a Griffith with 75k on the clock which was to be a replacement for my 32k mile Chimaera but it was the best I could afford.
However, the Griffith had been well cared for by its previous owners and I honestly think it drives better than the Chimaera did.
As some of the above posts indicate, a low mileage car, especially as most are 20 plus years old, is not necessarily a good thing. Even a low mileage doesn’t gaurantee that there won’t be hefty bills ahead. I spent the best part of £4000 trying to sort out a gearbox problem on the 32k car........
Good luck with the viewing, once you have a TVR, nothing else will do!
Regards Chris.
I agree with the last post.
I was worried about buying a Griffith with 75k on the clock which was to be a replacement for my 32k mile Chimaera but it was the best I could afford.
However, the Griffith had been well cared for by its previous owners and I honestly think it drives better than the Chimaera did.
As some of the above posts indicate, a low mileage car, especially as most are 20 plus years old, is not necessarily a good thing. Even a low mileage doesn’t gaurantee that there won’t be hefty bills ahead. I spent the best part of £4000 trying to sort out a gearbox problem on the 32k car........
Good luck with the viewing, once you have a TVR, nothing else will do!
Regards Chris.
Integroo said:
I could find the old PH ad on Google but clicking through it's gone. I did find this pic which appears to be of the same car
As in the picture,the centre rail of the chassis on most tivs is usually good......plenty of oil coverage.......equals no rust.Inspect all the outriggers, and the top rail below the exhaust manifold, as this are known points for rot.
Also In the above pic the flywheel splash plate is missing.
https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-q...
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