The value of a service history
Discussion
Got to admit I wouldn’t touch it! The only reason is that there tends to be a lot go wrong with “some” TVR’s and you don’t want to get caught out with a pup.
Saying that it might be the best example for £12k. I paid more for mine as I got it from a dealer, this being the first time owner of a tiv, but I would but private next time.
Ya payz ya money and takes ya chances!
>> Edited by Mr Freefall on Tuesday 17th December 15:35
Saying that it might be the best example for £12k. I paid more for mine as I got it from a dealer, this being the first time owner of a tiv, but I would but private next time.
Ya payz ya money and takes ya chances!
>> Edited by Mr Freefall on Tuesday 17th December 15:35
What sort of "service history" are we talking about here? A 1996 for 12k is suspiciously good value even this time of year!
So is it Full TVR Dealer service history and the dates and mileage tie up with the MOT's etc? Or is it something less? Not that I am saying it has to be Dealer servicing - just that service history in itself means nothing. IMHO of course.
So is it Full TVR Dealer service history and the dates and mileage tie up with the MOT's etc? Or is it something less? Not that I am saying it has to be Dealer servicing - just that service history in itself means nothing. IMHO of course.
At risk of being shouted down, I would have said that as long as you could verify the mileage (eg old MoT's), you have the car inspected by somebody who knows, you intend keeping it for a couple of years, and the price is right I cannot see the problem. In a couple of years when you come to sell it, you will have built up something towards a recent service history. At 50k mls it makes no difference if the 18k and 24k were missed. I remember selling a 911 Turbo a few years ago which had a 15k mls gap in the history. Since the gap it had 3 main dealer services and a further 18k mls on the car. It made no difference to the car, as the missing bit was long past and any consequences were long dealt with. All else aside it is far from safe to assume that a fully stamped service book means a car that has been fully and properly serviced. It is far from unknown for a quick oil change and glance about to attract a bill of a few hundred pounds and a stamp in the book. Doesn't mean much though ! With the above provisos I would be right in there to try to secure a cheap car.
If a chimeara is for sale at £12k 1996 good condition with a full service history, what would it be worth without any history, assuming ownership is pooven?
Simon
Hi Simon,
At 12k it's a very cheap car indeed!
IMHO a full service history on the older cars is a good guide to the care taken by it's previous owners.
However as already stated some main dealer servicing can leave a lot to be desired!
I would NEVER buy a car such as a TVR without a strong service record - it does not have to be a main dealer , a good independent is fine in cars over five years old.
If you like the car go for it.
After all you only live to drive.
Cheers
SPS
I must agree with RUF 3 on this one.
I am sure may people get peace of mind from at least assuming that the dealer has carried out a service and had a look over their pride and joy and in most cases pay a hefty price for the privilege, and also receive the same reassurance when they see a prospective purchase has had the same time and money spent on it when viewing a full book of service stamps.
But lets face it, that’s all it is !! when buying a car it’s the condition on the day of purchase that’s all important not that it had a wash and polish some years earlier, I do appreciate that things such as lubrication changes etc. are all important but a service stamp proves nothing.
I also understand the mentality of so many owners when they constantly sing the praises of “full service history” and that it is “essential” when buying, I would probably be doing the same if I’d paid the inflated price of a car with full dealer history and wanted to protect my investment, but this isn’t the only way into TVR ownership.
I purchased my Chim 4.0HC two years ago after owning an S1 for six years before that ( which I still have ). The chim came with No service history at all, I bought it with very light front body damage, from a specialist dealer. I was lucky enough to have a friend that could sort the fiberglass damage and gave it a full respray, it know looks fantastic. It gets serviced regularly also by a friend of mine, which means I know the work has actually been done!!
Lets face facts, TVR’s are not complicated machinery, they use proven parts that in most cases have been around for many years, they are simple enough to work on, I have done probably 20k miles since I got it and apart from a starter motor failure, has been trouble free.
I really don’t want to upset anyone, but when all said and done, I will have had the same experience and joys of TVR ownership as everyone else, but it’s cost me many thousands of pounds less for the privilege. If you do the sums, a full dealer service history doesn’t make good economic sense, just make sure the car is right for you at the right price.
That’s my lot.
Looks like time to head for the hills.
I am sure may people get peace of mind from at least assuming that the dealer has carried out a service and had a look over their pride and joy and in most cases pay a hefty price for the privilege, and also receive the same reassurance when they see a prospective purchase has had the same time and money spent on it when viewing a full book of service stamps.
But lets face it, that’s all it is !! when buying a car it’s the condition on the day of purchase that’s all important not that it had a wash and polish some years earlier, I do appreciate that things such as lubrication changes etc. are all important but a service stamp proves nothing.
I also understand the mentality of so many owners when they constantly sing the praises of “full service history” and that it is “essential” when buying, I would probably be doing the same if I’d paid the inflated price of a car with full dealer history and wanted to protect my investment, but this isn’t the only way into TVR ownership.
I purchased my Chim 4.0HC two years ago after owning an S1 for six years before that ( which I still have ). The chim came with No service history at all, I bought it with very light front body damage, from a specialist dealer. I was lucky enough to have a friend that could sort the fiberglass damage and gave it a full respray, it know looks fantastic. It gets serviced regularly also by a friend of mine, which means I know the work has actually been done!!
Lets face facts, TVR’s are not complicated machinery, they use proven parts that in most cases have been around for many years, they are simple enough to work on, I have done probably 20k miles since I got it and apart from a starter motor failure, has been trouble free.
I really don’t want to upset anyone, but when all said and done, I will have had the same experience and joys of TVR ownership as everyone else, but it’s cost me many thousands of pounds less for the privilege. If you do the sums, a full dealer service history doesn’t make good economic sense, just make sure the car is right for you at the right price.
That’s my lot.
Looks like time to head for the hills.
well i had my chim up for sale recently for about 10.5k with full tvrsh and no faults but one chap was put off because it did not have enough other paperwork ie receipts for other work done (i only have receipts for four years) but fully stamped up book and plus the fact that it has had six owners which i thought was not bad considering that it had been very well looked after, i think some want it for almost nothing which is why i took it off the market,its now at offords being serviced...
Sadly some car "enthusiasts" know so little about cars that they are really only buying a stack of impressive paperwork in the hope that the car that comes with it will turn out to be equally impressive. I guess a lot of them end up disappointed with the end result. The worst part is that this need for paper has spread everywhere to the point that no service history equals no value. The good part is that it creates a lot of bargains for those who can see through all this.
Personally, I bought my car through the trade so I did not pay the daft money that some of the dealers/specialists charge for Chims. I did buy a car with full TVR service history and would not have considered a two year old car without it. I will not be keeping it forever and do not fancy making the eventual sale any harder than it need be. I will do any repairs in between services myself but despite being well capable of doing the servicing myself will be getting ripped off by a dealer/specialist for my service just like most owners.
There is no doubt the difference between selling with/without service history will easily be more than the cost of a service. At the end is the day it is just a question of economics.
Ivan
There is no doubt the difference between selling with/without service history will easily be more than the cost of a service. At the end is the day it is just a question of economics.
Ivan
How refreshing to hear a bit of commonsense about servicing (ref:Monaco). TVR's are just CARS and can be looked after by any competent mechanic with a factory checklist to work from. This myth has been built up that they are something very special like a space shuttle only to be worked on by highly trained specialists. They are in fact fairly primitive as cars go inevitably as they are evolved kit cars. Engine work is a doddle--very easy to access. Electronics are a bastard and probably the main source of unreliability due to the badly placed and designed fuse box including the older Gemini security systems. Any problem here needs an experienced autoelectrician--even at the dealers. I would say check the car electrics very carefully and there should be evidence that the factory servicing checklists have been attended to at the proper intervals. Ironically you are IMHO more likely to get this actually done by a reliable motor engineer than by a "lad" at the dealers.
For the servicing checklist go to http://ourworld.com/homepages/Peter_Beech/TVR/misc.htm
For the servicing checklist go to http://ourworld.com/homepages/Peter_Beech/TVR/misc.htm
It is all about risk management. If the car is cheap enough then you can afford to ignore things like damage or no service history as you have the cash delta to address them.
As with any risk assessment, no service history means that the potential risk of buying a dog is a lot higher than one without. Buying a car that has been "owner" serviced depends on how good the owner is and while there are good ones out there, the majority don't have the knowledge and the cars suffer big time in my experience...
As for non-dealer/specialist servicing... the risk of missing things or not doing them correctly is higher. Some are good. Most in my experience are not. The biggest problem with myths is the fact that people think they are rebodied Sierras or Land Rovers and can be treated as such.
If you want to go elsewhere because you don't want the apprentice working on your car then fine but who is going to train the guy that is working on it? How will he know whether something is really a problem or not? Who is going to pay for his learning curve.
In the end, it is your car and your decision. If you intend keeping it who cares. If you want to sell it on however, that is where the problems can occur as a most buyers will look at it and say that the risk for them is too high and walk away as there are plenty of other cars out there. To compensate, the prices will be lower.
Steve
As with any risk assessment, no service history means that the potential risk of buying a dog is a lot higher than one without. Buying a car that has been "owner" serviced depends on how good the owner is and while there are good ones out there, the majority don't have the knowledge and the cars suffer big time in my experience...
As for non-dealer/specialist servicing... the risk of missing things or not doing them correctly is higher. Some are good. Most in my experience are not. The biggest problem with myths is the fact that people think they are rebodied Sierras or Land Rovers and can be treated as such.
If you want to go elsewhere because you don't want the apprentice working on your car then fine but who is going to train the guy that is working on it? How will he know whether something is really a problem or not? Who is going to pay for his learning curve.
In the end, it is your car and your decision. If you intend keeping it who cares. If you want to sell it on however, that is where the problems can occur as a most buyers will look at it and say that the risk for them is too high and walk away as there are plenty of other cars out there. To compensate, the prices will be lower.
Steve
I am now in the position where I am looking at having to pay for dealer services for the first time, in the past I did all servicing and repairs on all my cars but the car I have just bought had all its servicing done by TVR eng. in Blackpool, I guess you have to keep a book like that stamped up properely. as a footnote I would have to comment on how often when servicing other peoples cars for their first non dealer services (various makes) it was suprising how many important items had been repeatedly overlooked!
Hopefully a full service history means the car has had all recalls and factory modifications done.While I know a lot of people are cynical about main dealers a service does not just consist of an oil change.
I recently purchased a high mileage Alfa 156 with a full service history.When I had to speak to the main dealer recently I discovered the car had every modification going! I am sure this would not have happened if the car had gaps in its history.
I recently purchased a high mileage Alfa 156 with a full service history.When I had to speak to the main dealer recently I discovered the car had every modification going! I am sure this would not have happened if the car had gaps in its history.
I'm with Monaco and Ruf 3, but would say that the older a car is the more need for some sort of history. I bought mine with none, but as it was only 18 months old, I thought it was fairly unlikey to have done 100,000 miles and been clocked
Just hope I'm not part of "the majority don't have the knowledge"
Just hope I'm not part of "the majority don't have the knowledge"
Until I bought my Chimaera (well actually the M3 before it), from HHC, I had always serviced my own cars. Rebuilt engines, welded in floors, replaced wings, resprayed, built a 7, etc. When I bought the Chimaera, I took the decision to keep the service history going to aid resale value etc. When you add up the service costs over the years, you will find that the cost of dealer servicing far exceeds any reduction in resale value. The advantages however are that assuming you trust the dealer workshops (which in HHC case I do) you can expect reliability from your purchase and now, approaching 50, I don't have to roll around the cold garage floor with skinned knuckles any more but can instead go out for walks/drives on my time off. I used to spend every available moment repairing, servicing, rebuilding anything that came my way. I have to say I enjoyed it as a practical hobby to complement my office job. Even replacing Mini fronts and respraying a Marina. Now I'm afraid I can think of better things to do, I sometimes miss the pleasure of seeing something running or looking tidy again and ponder over another project but just walking into the garage for something out of the cupboard is enough to remind me how cold it is. A lot of my mates feel the same. It costs but you pay your money and take your choice.
I would disagree that 12K seems cheap, I have a friend who has just purchased a 98R (facelifted, button on mirrow) Chimaera 4.0 (64K miles) for £11,500!
It had very slight body scratches, most of which polished out and needed a good service (new front wishbones, only non-service item) - done at an independent.
Service history dealer until about 20,00 miles ago and since then some non-dealer paperwork but incomplete.
davidy
It had very slight body scratches, most of which polished out and needed a good service (new front wishbones, only non-service item) - done at an independent.
Service history dealer until about 20,00 miles ago and since then some non-dealer paperwork but incomplete.
davidy
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