Plus 4 or Roadster?

Plus 4 or Roadster?

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cardigankid

Original Poster:

8,500 posts

172 months

Tuesday 3rd March 2015
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Sorry - were you asking me?

I was distracted. I did do a test drive in a Morgan, resulting in the comments above. While I haven't entirely ruled the Morgan out, I have been looking at another option which was not on my radar at that point, which is a classic E Type. The idea is it is fun and an asset.

NDA

17,436 posts

185 months

Sunday 8th March 2015
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cardigankid said:
I did do a test drive in a Morgan, resulting in the comments above. While I haven't entirely ruled the Morgan out, I have been looking at another option which was not on my radar at that point, which is a classic E Type. The idea is it is fun and an asset.
An E Type is a different level of expense.... smile

I reckon a second hand Morgan (as they are always ridiculously well looked after) is a safe bet as they don't depreciate much. E Types are starting to get chunky prices.

cardigankid

Original Poster:

8,500 posts

172 months

Monday 16th March 2015
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OK, funding the classic E-Type, which is only practicable for me as a purchase from the USA, is problematic, and it is a big leap of faith. I can't afford the time or money to get into restoration. If all goes well, it is a beautiful car and solid asset. If it doesn't you have smoked a large amount of cash.

AM V8 Vantage Roadster. Lovely manual gearbox. Expensive to buy, expensive to run, and one massive flaw in my view - no view to aim the car over the front. The bonnet just drops away from you. Cars have to look good from the driver's seat, not just the outside. Nothing beats the Morgan on that, but Ian Callum has clearly got the message and the Jags come a close second.

The Morgan - in the end, imho if you can afford to have one for occasional use, it is a great experience, but it's an eccentric one. I do not think that I could use it every day, the brakes worry me, and I do not think that you get enough content for your buck.

The XKR Dynamic - again a very nice car, and fast - but principally a cruiser, and I have other cars that will do that. The F Type Convertible is a tempting prospect, fabulous sound, and supremely emotive drive. What's not to like? I'll tell you. It is flawed, maybe fatally. There is zero luggage space. It is 250kg too heavy (how on earth was that allowed to happen?) The build quality, and here I mean the interior mainly, is not up to Porsche standards. Look at the seat wear on low mileage second hand models. It is not a 911 competitor. A toddler could tell you that. A 911 is a practical, usable 2+2 stockbroker's express. What were Jaguar smoking when they said it was benchmarked against the 911? The F is a two seater fun sports car directly competing with the Porsche Boxster and Cayman. Only it is a good £20k+ too expensive on each model to compete effectively. With the benefit of hindsight this car needed to be economic to build, good basic quality, and a kit of parts that allowed some interesting model variations without becoming expensive to construct, and priced to sweep the market. In short it needed to be the 986 Boxster which saved Porsche.

The one you really want is the V8S, but it is over £90k. It ought to be £65k. You wouldn't buy a much more reasonably priced used 13 plate, because you are very likely buying one that has been extensively caned round a circuit as part of the Driving Experience programme. I don't think so. The entry model is 330 bhp, similar to a Boxster GTS. But it is so much heavier than the Porsche that you need the V6S as a minimum. That's £67k. You also need the Performance seats - that's £2.5k, the black wheels - that's £2.5k, sundry other basic and black stuff so it looks as much as it costs, which magically comes to a further £2.5k, and suddenly they are asking £75k for a good looking fun two seater. I know that its possible to abuse the options list on a Porsche too, but that's game over, surely? In short, the F Type is not yet at the top of its game, though I hope that it gets there. Otherwise we are going to be pinning our hopes on the G Type.

There is in the end only one answer to this, and I'm sorry to be conventional and obvious but it is a well specced Boxster.

Speedraser

1,389 posts

143 months

Tuesday 17th March 2015
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Assuming that a Morgan, wonderful though they are, is not for you, and never mind that we're still on the Morgan forum...

I don't think the Boxster has much of a view over the bonnet either. If that's your main issue with the V8 Vantage, perhaps you should reconsider. While the bonnet does drop out of view, the view from the driver's seat overall is still superb because the interior is gorgeous. IMO, while the Boxster is quite nice, the view from the V8V's driver's seat (not to mention every other view of the car) is in a completely different league from that of the Boxster. A 4.7L V8V is all you need and more -- the S is great, but a 4.7, especially with the Sports Pack, is superb. And it's a very wonderful ownership experience.


cardigankid

Original Poster:

8,500 posts

172 months

Monday 23rd March 2015
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I've not so much decided against a Morgan as decided that a Boxster GTS is a higher priority. I'm going to get more out of it. I still respect what Morgan do and God willing I may have one one day. If it were solely about views down the bonnet (call me a fetishist, I think that it matters) the Morgan would win hands down. The old E Type was a great idea in principle but the finance just didn't work.

The Porsche has a bit of a view, framed by the wings. I don't like the swage line they have introduced though. The view out of a 986/987 was nicer, as it was out of the 996/997. I think that smooth curving wings, like smooth curving breasts, if I can say that without getting banned, are nicer. But you can't have everything.

I totally agree with you about the Aston. It is an epically beautiful car, by any standard, particularly in roadster form. The interior is stunning, just as you say, in a different class. It would be the right decision, but for a few things. I have a DBS, which fulfils my need for an Aston pretty well. What I don't have is a convertible. For a car that lovely, it is remarkable how little you perceive of it from the inside. I might crash through driving about looking at myself in shop windows! I really worry about the cost of attempting to run two Astons, and I already wake up at night thinking about what happens if something goes wrong with the S, or indeed if I can't keep up the payments. My ticker might not stand two such investments. Also, if we are talking new, (and I feel the need for the comfort of a warranty) a serious kick-ass manual Boxster GTS with stuff like PTV and PCCB is £65k. A similarly good spec F-Type is 75k, £85k if you want the V8, which I do, and the N430 Roadster is £105k which is in a different solar system. It is rarer, yes, but they are going to replace it, though it doesn't need replacing, simply because they can't keep selling £100k cars when Tommy Atkins can pull up beside you in a minted 56 plate that looks just as stunning but cost him £28k. When they do the depreciation is going to be bumclenching. Tommy is a hero though because if something lets go he is facing a mahoosive bill.

Edited by cardigankid on Monday 23 March 19:07

Speedraser

1,389 posts

143 months

Tuesday 24th March 2015
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Makes sense, and I forgot you have a DBS. Well done on the manual 'box choice for the Boxster, also. Enjoy them.

cardigankid

Original Poster:

8,500 posts

172 months

Tuesday 24th March 2015
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Thanks, had to be manual, detest PDK, hope its the right call.

talbottwo

2 posts

69 months

Friday 27th March 2015
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cardigankid said:
I did do a test drive in a Morgan, resulting in the comments above. While I haven't entirely ruled the Morgan out, I have been looking at another option which was not on my radar at that point, which is a classic E Type. The idea is it is fun and an asset.
I had an e-type roadster for 12 years. Morgans for longer.

e-types have become the better investment. Morgans no longer hold their value as they once did. The company constantly uses past glory to sell shoddily made current stock. Sadly, that has finally affected the demand and price of the older Morgans...which I believe are excellent buys otherwise.

But e-types are not required to compete with a dubious current production. That keeps their market values solid and rising. Will Jaguar ever copy and name a new car an "e-type" for under 1,000,000? They are a very classy company and treasure their past legends or at least they sell them out more dearly. wink

And the later Series 1, Series 1.5s and Series 2 e-types are also relatively easy to maintain and part-source. You must have discovered by now that most of them are in the USA, but they are supplied out of the UK.

On the other hand, a sorted Morgan is much cheaper to restore, even easier to maintain and provides more fun per £. And a Morgan is a sports car, with all the elan and driving excitement that implies. The e-type is the ultimate touring car, very plush, almost wallowly. Much less exhilarating to drive than a Morgan. It is also gorgeous.

Driving experience = older Morgan or new Boxster
Investment = e-type




Edited by talbottwo on Friday 27th March 14:52

maxmeabh

6 posts

110 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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A very interesting thread: I don't think anything other than a long week end test will come close. Although I sympathize with the have I made a dreadful mistake comment. I went from an Elan to a Morgan thirty years ago. 300000 miles later I wouldn't want anything else. Mine is a fully sorted road car and very quick. It eats Boxters so they can be made to go very well indeed BUT i firmly believe that you have to commit to the car. I don't have the luxury to buy lots of vehicles so I needed to make my choice just as the other guys will make theirs. I would like a mid eighties Plus Eight because though I love to leave the opposition behind I am really quite in love with that lazy root pulling torque. Anyway best of luck.

doclip

341 posts

183 months

Wednesday 24th February 2016
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I really love the old school look of Morgans and the whole ethos of the hand built car , but unfortunately the handling doesnt cut the mustard IMHO . You really want a sports car that will talk to you but at the same time look after you when you push it on twisty B roads . I was previously given the keys to a new Morgan roadster V6 on a wet track and I vividly remember that I was relieved just to get out of it in one piece . It just didnt feel balanced or predictable and didn't inspire confidence . And that's the dilemma for me -I keep looking at Morgans but I know I'll be dissapointed .If you want the old school experience with epic neutral predictable handling along with classic looks then its hard to top a Caterham especially one on Carbs [like a BDR or HPC] -and like a Morgan you wont loose any money so its a sound investment . Even a humble xflow is going to give you a lot of fun at a fraction of the price of a Morgan .

NDA

17,436 posts

185 months

Saturday 27th February 2016
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Actually.... smile the new +8 on the Aero chassis handles extremely well. Traditional looks and bonkers performance with a BMW 4.8 V8 under the hood.


cardigankid

Original Poster:

8,500 posts

172 months

Thursday 3rd March 2016
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Lovely picture - be a sport and post a few more.

Is that a manual or auto?

NDA

17,436 posts

185 months

Saturday 12th March 2016
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cardigankid said:
Lovely picture - be a sport and post a few more.

Is that a manual or auto?
After much thinking, I had an auto one made for me... purists will raise an eyebrow, but it's a very light body with a 4.8 V8 with lots of torque and the paddle shift suits it. You drive on the torque to be honest. I thought the manual a bit of a pain - very short first etc.

Always happy to post more pics. smile








SFO

4,912 posts

143 months

Thursday 24th March 2016
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beautiful Plus 8 .. are you on talkmorgan?

NDA

17,436 posts

185 months

Friday 25th March 2016
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Thank you.

Yes I am.

cardigankid

Original Poster:

8,500 posts

172 months

Saturday 9th April 2016
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That looks absolutely stunning. How do you find it to drive? Do you find that you can use it in all weathers?

I like a manual gearbox, but certainly in some car/ engine combinations, it's pointless.

NDA

17,436 posts

185 months

Monday 18th April 2016
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cardigankid said:
That looks absolutely stunning. How do you find it to drive? Do you find that you can use it in all weathers?

I like a manual gearbox, but certainly in some car/ engine combinations, it's pointless.
I enjoy driving it - it handles well, is very stiff and the suspension is good. Vented discs all round and a monster engine. It feels a bit like an early 325i and is nothing like a traditional Morgan - it's like a modern sports car.

I don't use it in all weathers - it's not 100% waterproof and I use a storm cover (cheap and very easy to fix on) if I had to leave it out in bad weather.

http://www.morganhoods.com/id67.html

Normally I would have a manual - but you just don't need it on this car, the paddle shift is good and sports mode is mad.

The thing with it is - it's lovely looking AND useable. I found some of the cars I've had to be just too much for country lanes and I don't like being on motorways all the time.

cardigankid

Original Poster:

8,500 posts

172 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
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The AR Plus 4 looks like quite a piece of kit. If Morgan can translate the work done on that, both the engine and the chassis, to the standard Plus 4 - or maybe offer a tuned engine as an option possibly not the full Cosworth job but something which is going to feel visceral - that would get me excited. Today's review in the Telegraph suggested that the suspension upgrades will be carried forward into the standard Plus 4. This is what is needed. They will sell me one yet.

SFO

4,912 posts

143 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
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cardigankid said:
The AR Plus 4 looks like quite a piece of kit.
my first ever Morgan, it's fantastic smile




BlackandWhite

82 posts

154 months

Thursday 21st July 2016
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Any chance of some constructive feedback on the ARP4? Test drove a 420R and then ended up sort of accidently trying a 4/4 and then a roadster, both left me unsure. Woke up a week later and bought an ARP4 on looks alone. Never owned a Morgan, it's a scary amount of cash and I am papping myself.😳