Discussion
I’ve been hankering over a MG midget for a while and looking at pictures online I like the look of the car pictured above.
Are those arch extensions an available part?
I’m after a daily drive, I’m handy with the spanner’s but ideally would rather maintain than re-build. Engine wise the originals seem very low on power. I’m not after a something sub 5 sec but I think a good 75-100bhp would help it motor along just right. Can original engines produce those figures without costing too much in relation to the value of the car? If so are the parts a straight forward swap or is it internal machining etc required?
Any help and ideas would be gratefully received
Glosphil said:
75-100hp!!! Ha ha.
The original 1-litre was 43hp and the last 1.5 was between 60-65.
75 - 100bhp is not difficult to achieve from a 1275 A Series engine! Many of the current classic race cars, as in Minis, A35's, A 40's, Midgets etc are seeing 130bhp plus! The problem being, the first 10 to 20bhp increase is relatively easy to find, and not overly expensive, but the ££££'s soon start to mount up from thereon!! I personally would look at an MGB as an option, and more of a usable car!The original 1-litre was 43hp and the last 1.5 was between 60-65.
Those arches by the way, appear to be off a Mini!
ginettajoe said:
Glosphil said:
75-100hp!!! Ha ha.
The original 1-litre was 43hp and the last 1.5 was between 60-65.
75 - 100bhp is not difficult to achieve from a 1275 A Series engine! Many of the current classic race cars, as in Minis, A35's, A 40's, Midgets etc are seeing 130bhp plus! The problem being, the first 10 to 20bhp increase is relatively easy to find, and not overly expensive, but the ££££'s soon start to mount up from thereon!! I personally would look at an MGB as an option, and more of a usable car!The original 1-litre was 43hp and the last 1.5 was between 60-65.
Those arches by the way, appear to be off a Mini!
RobXjcoupe said:
ginettajoe said:
Glosphil said:
75-100hp!!! Ha ha.
The original 1-litre was 43hp and the last 1.5 was between 60-65.
75 - 100bhp is not difficult to achieve from a 1275 A Series engine! Many of the current classic race cars, as in Minis, A35's, A 40's, Midgets etc are seeing 130bhp plus! The problem being, the first 10 to 20bhp increase is relatively easy to find, and not overly expensive, but the ££££'s soon start to mount up from thereon!! I personally would look at an MGB as an option, and more of a usable car!The original 1-litre was 43hp and the last 1.5 was between 60-65.
Those arches by the way, appear to be off a Mini!
Hi,
If you really look for "performance", I would advise you to buy a car which has had an engine rebuild recently, or has been upgraded already. Obviously, those cars and engine are not young anymore, and if you get a car with old or unknown condition,you can update as much as you want, it will not have a lot of effect if the compression are low, the head worn out, etc...
The Midget are not too expensive, so I think it is wise to take some time and look around: one in good (or i should say known) engine condition are not much more expensive than others. Ideally, you can look for one with "fast road head" and re-bored engine, usually around the 1330cc mark. This means the car need to be a 1275cc engine to start with, as indicated by others before, so starting from 1966 if I am not mistaken.
Second point would be rust: being old, they do rust... So if you want to make it a daily and not fight the rust from the beginning, then you need to look carefully everywhere... Low chance that the car will be exempt from it, but it should be minimum if the car was taking good care of/maintain to good condition.
To finish, I would advise you to buy one which has been driven a fair amount of miles on the last years: those cars behave much better when they are driven, than when they are "stored". If the car has been driven ~1 000 miles the last decade or so, it is highly probable you will spend a lot of time fixing this and that...
Aside from this, it is great fun And as you said, if your a bit handy, those cars are like a puzzle: not really difficult to work on And globally reliable and easy to fix...if you look after it
If you really look for "performance", I would advise you to buy a car which has had an engine rebuild recently, or has been upgraded already. Obviously, those cars and engine are not young anymore, and if you get a car with old or unknown condition,you can update as much as you want, it will not have a lot of effect if the compression are low, the head worn out, etc...
The Midget are not too expensive, so I think it is wise to take some time and look around: one in good (or i should say known) engine condition are not much more expensive than others. Ideally, you can look for one with "fast road head" and re-bored engine, usually around the 1330cc mark. This means the car need to be a 1275cc engine to start with, as indicated by others before, so starting from 1966 if I am not mistaken.
Second point would be rust: being old, they do rust... So if you want to make it a daily and not fight the rust from the beginning, then you need to look carefully everywhere... Low chance that the car will be exempt from it, but it should be minimum if the car was taking good care of/maintain to good condition.
To finish, I would advise you to buy one which has been driven a fair amount of miles on the last years: those cars behave much better when they are driven, than when they are "stored". If the car has been driven ~1 000 miles the last decade or so, it is highly probable you will spend a lot of time fixing this and that...
Aside from this, it is great fun
And as you said, if your a bit handy, those cars are like a puzzle: not really difficult to work on And globally reliable and easy to fix...if you look after it cedrichn said:
Hi,
If you really look for "performance", I would advise you to buy a car which has had an engine rebuild recently, or has been upgraded already. Obviously, those cars and engine are not young anymore, and if you get a car with old or unknown condition,you can update as much as you want, it will not have a lot of effect if the compression are low, the head worn out, etc...
The Midget are not too expensive, so I think it is wise to take some time and look around: one in good (or i should say known) engine condition are not much more expensive than others. Ideally, you can look for one with "fast road head" and re-bored engine, usually around the 1330cc mark. This means the car need to be a 1275cc engine to start with, as indicated by others before, so starting from 1966 if I am not mistaken.
Second point would be rust: being old, they do rust... So if you want to make it a daily and not fight the rust from the beginning, then you need to look carefully everywhere... Low chance that the car will be exempt from it, but it should be minimum if the car was taking good care of/maintain to good condition.
To finish, I would advise you to buy one which has been driven a fair amount of miles on the last years: those cars behave much better when they are driven, than when they are "stored". If the car has been driven ~1 000 miles the last decade or so, it is highly probable you will spend a lot of time fixing this and that...
Aside from this, it is great fun And as you said, if your a bit handy, those cars are like a puzzle: not really difficult to work on And globally reliable and easy to fix...if you look after it
Thank you for the advice If you really look for "performance", I would advise you to buy a car which has had an engine rebuild recently, or has been upgraded already. Obviously, those cars and engine are not young anymore, and if you get a car with old or unknown condition,you can update as much as you want, it will not have a lot of effect if the compression are low, the head worn out, etc...
The Midget are not too expensive, so I think it is wise to take some time and look around: one in good (or i should say known) engine condition are not much more expensive than others. Ideally, you can look for one with "fast road head" and re-bored engine, usually around the 1330cc mark. This means the car need to be a 1275cc engine to start with, as indicated by others before, so starting from 1966 if I am not mistaken.
Second point would be rust: being old, they do rust... So if you want to make it a daily and not fight the rust from the beginning, then you need to look carefully everywhere... Low chance that the car will be exempt from it, but it should be minimum if the car was taking good care of/maintain to good condition.
To finish, I would advise you to buy one which has been driven a fair amount of miles on the last years: those cars behave much better when they are driven, than when they are "stored". If the car has been driven ~1 000 miles the last decade or so, it is highly probable you will spend a lot of time fixing this and that...
Aside from this, it is great fun
And as you said, if your a bit handy, those cars are like a puzzle: not really difficult to work on And globally reliable and easy to fix...if you look after it If I’m honest I really don’t want to be bogged down with a total body restoration. Worn out mechanicals I don’t have an issue with as they will need work to get the power up and make reliable. Chances of finding a good rust free ( within reason ) body with worn engine is virtually nil, as generally good body is a low mileage car. High mileage usually has a knackered body.
My yearly mileage at the moment doesn’t exceed 4000 miles and that’s split between 2 cars.
I just fancied something classic that was rust free with a bit of extra poke. My current modern car is now 20 years old, but can’t get an agreed value insurance even though it’s only just hit 30k miles and is in extremely good condition because I’ve looked after it. I get a bit miffed as insurance on classics is so cheap but something like I currently have is just a 20 year old car that is irreplaceable at market value and will be scrapped with a split bumper
. So whilst on lockdown I’ve been looking at potential daily classics. The midget seemed to show potential with the engine tuned, but now I need to add in the upgrades for axle, diff, gearbox, front brakes. Just for 90bhp! If I can find a car with all that done recently and a good body, I would imagine it would sell at a premium price which is then sitting in mgb v8 territory, and other slightly better/bigger classics also. I dunno
I see your point... It is hard to forecast exactly the cost, and anticipate what the car is going to give you back in return... 4 000miles a year is definitely a good classic territory, especially if you have a back-up car for when the classic will be "moody" 
The Midget is definitely a sweet car, for not too much money, and you get attached to it... I would say it is more about a small car, easy to place on B road thanks to its small size, simple and robust mechanic, easy to DIY while having the possibility to put the roof down I am not sure you need to rebuild the diff and half shafts... This is really if you want to racetrack it or make hill climb. The car should be alright until 75bhp-ish. Which is already pretty nice, thanks to its weight. But if you look for "performance", then you either need to put a lot of money in it (which you will not get back), or choose another car...
Did you try one already ? What king of driving style/road you will be doing ? Do you forecast to use it in winter ? Old roadster are not much fun under the rain in winter (steam on the windscreen, poor wipers and poor headlights...)
The Midget is definitely a sweet car, for not too much money, and you get attached to it... I would say it is more about a small car, easy to place on B road thanks to its small size, simple and robust mechanic, easy to DIY while having the possibility to put the roof down
I am not sure you need to rebuild the diff and half shafts... This is really if you want to racetrack it or make hill climb. The car should be alright until 75bhp-ish. Which is already pretty nice, thanks to its weight. But if you look for "performance", then you either need to put a lot of money in it (which you will not get back), or choose another car...Did you try one already ? What king of driving style/road you will be doing ? Do you forecast to use it in winter ? Old roadster are not much fun under the rain in winter (steam on the windscreen, poor wipers and poor headlights...)
Regarding the price, like a lot of classics, don't be fooled by the price on some websites... Some cars are sitting there for ages, at high price, "hoping for the best". You find usually much better prices, and from "real" enthusiast on the facebook group or on the club classified sections.
This one for example look nice, good spec for the price (not mine, don't know the seller, in case any one wonder):
https://www.mgownersclub.co.uk/classifieds/2020-04...
I think you should try one if you didn't already, to see if you like Midget or not Then adding performance would be second to my opinion, icing on the cake !
This one for example look nice, good spec for the price (not mine, don't know the seller, in case any one wonder):
https://www.mgownersclub.co.uk/classifieds/2020-04...
I think you should try one if you didn't already, to see if you like Midget or not
Then adding performance would be second to my opinion, icing on the cake !That car on the advert is lovely looks like there is hope after all.
Driving I won’t be using it between November and April. That’s how I’ve managed to keep a 20 year old fiesta virtually rust free. It also gives me time to maintain and repair or modify
Taking one for a test drive I will do that. Obviously after lockdown. Yorkshire is a bit of a journey from South Wales to pick up essentials. I’ll be having a look at the mg club site. I’m not on Facebook so those will have to fall from the net so to speak
looks like there is hope after all.Driving I won’t be using it between November and April. That’s how I’ve managed to keep a 20 year old fiesta virtually rust free. It also gives me time to maintain and repair or modify
Taking one for a test drive I will do that. Obviously after lockdown. Yorkshire is a bit of a journey from South Wales to pick up essentials
. I’ll be having a look at the mg club site. I’m not on Facebook so those will have to fall from the net so to speakThere's an awful lot of bodge jobs around so unless you know what you're looking at it's easy to end up with a bitsa. Round arch cars are generally reckoned to be better looking ? that's in the eye of the beholder of course, but round arches will sell for more than square arch cars all else being equal.
Cheapest of all are later 1500s and the gross plastic bumpers can be dumped or swapped for chrome fairly easily. This requires spacers to restore the ride height because it gets rid of a LOT of weight. Something like 80kg I believe.
RWAs weren't produced more than a few years until the factory reverted to square arches because they contributed much more to the stiffness of the shell.
An A series engine (1275) can be taken out 1330 and induced to produce 100hp, but getting it there is spendy. 75hp is more realistic and the car doesn't need any more - it weighs so little. Best bang for the buck is a Peter Burgess head job and setup on his rolling road.
For A series tuning you really need Vizards book.
For a 1500 engine you need to fit an oil cooler to keep the oil pressure out of heart attack country. The factory couldn't be arsed. They also couldn't be arsed with relays for the electrics; that's a simple and cheap mod for any Midget that will pay dividends in reliability and better lights etc.
The 5 speed Ford type 9 gearbox can be fitted with chassis mods. Frontline do a kit for this but it's not difficult to DIY it. Edit: There are many different versions of the Type 9 so don't lumber yourself with one from a diesel Transit for example. The ratios are all wrong.
Diff ratios are available up to 3.7:1 (from late 1500s) or even 3.5:1 as an (expensive) aftermarket CWP set. With more power than standard higher ratio gearbox and diff are well worth doing because otherwise they're very revvy.
Half shafts, brakes, suspension etc are all easily upgradeable.
Those arch extensions look hideous IMO,and unnecessary. The standard Rostyle wheels will take 155/13 tyres which are fine. Anything much fatter detracts from the wonderful light responsive steering. These little cars handle like gokarts - unbelievable fun.
There's a goldmine of knowledge about them on Midget and Sprite forums. PH doesn't allow me to post links and quite right too, but they're not hard to find for yourself.
The best thing I've noticed about my 1500 Midget is that "chicks dig it"! Seriously - I've had girls waving and blowing kisses from the pavement! Never get that driving the Volvosaurus.
Cheapest of all are later 1500s and the gross plastic bumpers can be dumped or swapped for chrome fairly easily. This requires spacers to restore the ride height because it gets rid of a LOT of weight. Something like 80kg I believe.
RWAs weren't produced more than a few years until the factory reverted to square arches because they contributed much more to the stiffness of the shell.
An A series engine (1275) can be taken out 1330 and induced to produce 100hp, but getting it there is spendy. 75hp is more realistic and the car doesn't need any more - it weighs so little. Best bang for the buck is a Peter Burgess head job and setup on his rolling road.
For A series tuning you really need Vizards book.
For a 1500 engine you need to fit an oil cooler to keep the oil pressure out of heart attack country. The factory couldn't be arsed. They also couldn't be arsed with relays for the electrics; that's a simple and cheap mod for any Midget that will pay dividends in reliability and better lights etc.
The 5 speed Ford type 9 gearbox can be fitted with chassis mods. Frontline do a kit for this but it's not difficult to DIY it. Edit: There are many different versions of the Type 9 so don't lumber yourself with one from a diesel Transit for example. The ratios are all wrong.
Diff ratios are available up to 3.7:1 (from late 1500s) or even 3.5:1 as an (expensive) aftermarket CWP set. With more power than standard higher ratio gearbox and diff are well worth doing because otherwise they're very revvy.
Half shafts, brakes, suspension etc are all easily upgradeable.
Those arch extensions look hideous IMO,and unnecessary. The standard Rostyle wheels will take 155/13 tyres which are fine. Anything much fatter detracts from the wonderful light responsive steering. These little cars handle like gokarts - unbelievable fun.
There's a goldmine of knowledge about them on Midget and Sprite forums. PH doesn't allow me to post links and quite right too, but they're not hard to find for yourself.
The best thing I've noticed about my 1500 Midget is that "chicks dig it"! Seriously - I've had girls waving and blowing kisses from the pavement! Never get that driving the Volvosaurus.
Edited by CATstrangler on Thursday 23 April 13:42
What sort of budget do you have in mind?
I'm not sure you need to go full out modding everything. Drive it, see how you like it and go from there. Up the power and only upgrade the diffs and shafts if they become a problem.
Would you be considering any other vehicles? Obviously MGB, but maybe Spitfire or TR7 also.
I'm not sure you need to go full out modding everything. Drive it, see how you like it and go from there. Up the power and only upgrade the diffs and shafts if they become a problem.
Would you be considering any other vehicles? Obviously MGB, but maybe Spitfire or TR7 also.
Lol at the kisses and waving 
I’ve noticed the round arch cars, between haphazard years. The 1275 engines seem to get a better write up to tune and rev. Chrome bumpers certainly look good when polished and in good condition but no bumpers also has that old school look also. Wheels and tyres I do like a bit of a rim. Not a lover of narrow wheels. I understand there isn’t much space in the arch but I’m sure a 175 would fit with the correct profile and wheel offset. A staggered wheel set would look fab on these little rwd cars
I’ve noticed the round arch cars, between haphazard years. The 1275 engines seem to get a better write up to tune and rev. Chrome bumpers certainly look good when polished and in good condition but no bumpers also has that old school look also. Wheels and tyres I do like a bit of a rim. Not a lover of narrow wheels. I understand there isn’t much space in the arch but I’m sure a 175 would fit with the correct profile and wheel offset. A staggered wheel set would look fab on these little rwd cars
300bhp/ton said:
What sort of budget do you have in mind?
I'm not sure you need to go full out modding everything. Drive it, see how you like it and go from there. Up the power and only upgrade the diffs and shafts if they become a problem.
Would you be considering any other vehicles? Obviously MGB, but maybe Spitfire or TR7 also.
The midget with its 1275 engine and roof down wizzing appeals to me. The mgb is also appealing but that came with a v8 in some models and I’ll just be thinking v8 rather than be happy with the 4 pot and I do have other big engined cars.I'm not sure you need to go full out modding everything. Drive it, see how you like it and go from there. Up the power and only upgrade the diffs and shafts if they become a problem.
Would you be considering any other vehicles? Obviously MGB, but maybe Spitfire or TR7 also.
The spitfire is good looking with the chrome bumpers but not keen on the rubber versions. The GT6 I like a lot. Downside it’s a fixed head. Probably gets rather warm in the summer. Possibly I could retro fit an air con system but the midget seems to tick all the boxes. The tr7 is much like a wedge TVR. Would rather own the wedge TVR. Another 70’s British Leyland car would probably get me divorced trying to keep it rust free!
Budget.....hmmm......not too much lol.
That advert in the mg club link is a good budget I’m happy with for a midget.
Edited by RobXjcoupe on Thursday 23 April 15:39
CATstrangler said:
175s should be okay if you're careful with the aspect ratio. But not on a standard 4 1/2" Rostyle. Better on 5" Minilites, which look great on a Midget.
Be careful about changing offsets too. There's not a lot of clearance for the TREs as it is.
Would 6jx13 wearing 175 50 r13 tyres fit on the rear on standard offsets without touching the inner wheel arch?Be careful about changing offsets too. There's not a lot of clearance for the TREs as it is.
Minilites look good but I also like the revolution 4 spoke. Maybe go to 14” wheels to clear a bigger front brake disc conversion?
RobXjcoupe said:
"Would 6jx13 wearing 175 50 r13 tyres fit on the rear on standard offsets without touching the inner wheel arch?"
It would be very close, but it's possible to mod the wing clearance. Axle location is an issue too. There are mods with panhard rods or watts linkages to improve it. But a 6j would be too close to the TREs I think, depending on offset. Even a 5" Minilite needs very careful placement of balance weights to miss them.
"Minilites look good but I also like the revolution 4 spoke. Maybe go to 14” wheels to clear a bigger front brake disc conversion? "
I've heard of it being done but never seen it. On a 50 section it might work - just need to watch the rolling radius. It would be very close, but it's possible to mod the wing clearance. Axle location is an issue too. There are mods with panhard rods or watts linkages to improve it. But a 6j would be too close to the TREs I think, depending on offset. Even a 5" Minilite needs very careful placement of balance weights to miss them.
"Minilites look good but I also like the revolution 4 spoke. Maybe go to 14” wheels to clear a bigger front brake disc conversion? "
However the standard disc brakes are more than man enough unless you're racing. There's no servo so it needs a bit more boot than a modern but it's a very light car.
Too wide a wheel/tyre spoils the flicky steering though. All depends on what you want to do with it. A "B" would be more comfortable but much more money and won't handle like a Midget.
I have 155 section tyres on 4 1/2" rims for my standard Sprite, but have gone up to 185 on 5 1/2" at the rear on my non standard Sprite....and even 205 on 6" wide when drag racing. As others have said getting 85 HP from a 1275 is quite easy but over 90 starts to get expensive. "K" series conversions may well be cheaper....
CATstrangler said:
RobXjcoupe said:
"Would 6jx13 wearing 175 50 r13 tyres fit on the rear on standard offsets without touching the inner wheel arch?"
It would be very close, but it's possible to mod the wing clearance. Axle location is an issue too. There are mods with panhard rods or watts linkages to improve it. But a 6j would be too close to the TREs I think, depending on offset. Even a 5" Minilite needs very careful placement of balance weights to miss them.
"Minilites look good but I also like the revolution 4 spoke. Maybe go to 14” wheels to clear a bigger front brake disc conversion? "
I've heard of it being done but never seen it. On a 50 section it might work - just need to watch the rolling radius. It would be very close, but it's possible to mod the wing clearance. Axle location is an issue too. There are mods with panhard rods or watts linkages to improve it. But a 6j would be too close to the TREs I think, depending on offset. Even a 5" Minilite needs very careful placement of balance weights to miss them.
"Minilites look good but I also like the revolution 4 spoke. Maybe go to 14” wheels to clear a bigger front brake disc conversion? "
However the standard disc brakes are more than man enough unless you're racing. There's no servo so it needs a bit more boot than a modern but it's a very light car.
Too wide a wheel/tyre spoils the flicky steering though. All depends on what you want to do with it. A "B" would be more comfortable but much more money and won't handle like a Midget.
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