Battery causing squeaking auxillary belt - XJR X308
Discussion
Despite new belt and tensioner I still get a squeaky auxillary belt upon cold start up, by this I mean after the car has been stood for 3 or 4 weeks.
All genuine parts and professionally fitted.
Bit of talc and it instantly stops squeaking.
If the car is started and used every day there is no squeaking.
The battery is less than 3 years old (Yuasa) and I use a quality pulse charger designed for the job.
Really cannot think what else could be causing this, but its starting to “DO MY HEAD IN.”
Any ideas anyone please ?
All genuine parts and professionally fitted.
Bit of talc and it instantly stops squeaking.
If the car is started and used every day there is no squeaking.
The battery is less than 3 years old (Yuasa) and I use a quality pulse charger designed for the job.
Really cannot think what else could be causing this, but its starting to “DO MY HEAD IN.”
Any ideas anyone please ?
Talc isn't a lifetime cure. It's a useful diagnostic tool but but yes it's likely the new belt is the source of noise if talc stops the squeak.
Try taking the belt off, clean the groves with a wire brush then reverse the running direction. While it's off spin all the pulleys by hand feeling for any any lateral play or rotational roughness.
See if that helps.
Try taking the belt off, clean the groves with a wire brush then reverse the running direction. While it's off spin all the pulleys by hand feeling for any any lateral play or rotational roughness.
See if that helps.
Zippyworld said:
That said, I dont understand how a battery could cause a squeaky belt.
Its fine when used every day....
If the battery has a low voltage / low level of charge it can load up the alternator when first started causing the belt to slip on the alternator pulley.Its fine when used every day....
Often you can recreate the symptom by loading up the alternator by putting all the lights on, heated seats and demisters and blinking the throttle to see if it "chirps"
cuprabob said:
Zippyworld said:
That said, I dont understand how a battery could cause a squeaky belt.
Its fine when used every day....
If the battery has a low voltage / low level of charge it can load up the alternator when first started causing the belt to slip on the alternator pulley.Its fine when used every day....
Often you can recreate the symptom by loading up the alternator by putting all the lights on, heated seats and demisters and blinking the throttle to see if it "chirps"
Update, back to basics.
The Jag Specialist I use is saying Jaguar are having problems fixing this problem, it doesn’t help having to speak with technical in Poland.
Jag have produced a 5th generation bit of kit for this and part of it now has a lip on it to retain the belt.
I have had a modified tensioner and a idler pulley fitted, and a new aux belt of course.
Lets see what happens.
The Jag Specialist I use is saying Jaguar are having problems fixing this problem, it doesn’t help having to speak with technical in Poland.
Jag have produced a 5th generation bit of kit for this and part of it now has a lip on it to retain the belt.
I have had a modified tensioner and a idler pulley fitted, and a new aux belt of course.
Lets see what happens.
I'm interested to know how you get on with this as I've had some auxiliary belt issues with an x308 too although not the same. I queried on this forum some time ago about a 'clunking' noise which turned out to be the belt tensioner moving through its travel. This was diagnosed as an old belt retaining it's shape when parked up for a few days at a time and causing a hump to travel round the route. Once the belt had circulated a few times the hump would be massaged out and all was good. I wasn't convinced, but shortly afterwards the belt shredded itself and a new belt appeared to fix the issue.
The replacement belt lasted about 3 months before a couple fo clunks were again heard upon start up. They'd go away very quickly after starting but soon after this belt again shredded the outer rib. This has since been replaced and up to now seems to be running fine. When it's in use the car is used most days, but with gaps of inactivity of 4-5 days and it's always after being stood that I notice the belt issues.
When the belt was most recently replaced all pulleys were checked for grumbly bearings or damage and nothing of note was found.
Al
The replacement belt lasted about 3 months before a couple fo clunks were again heard upon start up. They'd go away very quickly after starting but soon after this belt again shredded the outer rib. This has since been replaced and up to now seems to be running fine. When it's in use the car is used most days, but with gaps of inactivity of 4-5 days and it's always after being stood that I notice the belt issues.
When the belt was most recently replaced all pulleys were checked for grumbly bearings or damage and nothing of note was found.
Al
Al, I had exactly the same issues with the clunking tensioner moving side to side, this was on a newish belt. Put a new belt on and it indeed shredded the outer rib.
I subsequently had 4000 miles on the third replacement belt before it started squealing after being parked for a few days. Never made a sound when used daily.
I will keep you posted. As an aside, my Jag Specialist had bought as many of these 5th generation kits from Rybrook Jaguar as they have in stock and on back order.....he's not daft.
Jez
I subsequently had 4000 miles on the third replacement belt before it started squealing after being parked for a few days. Never made a sound when used daily.
I will keep you posted. As an aside, my Jag Specialist had bought as many of these 5th generation kits from Rybrook Jaguar as they have in stock and on back order.....he's not daft.
Jez
Jez
Do you have any information on what the updated (5th gen) pulley kit is, or looks like versus the standard parts?
I know mine has had later parts fitted at some point as I've got metal pulleys throughout and I seem to recall early engines had some plastic pulleys involved, or was that the supercharger belt....?
Anyway I've done some more investigating on my issue and it appears that the belt is riding up on the outisde lip of the alternator pulley, then dropping back down to where it should run, this up and down is adding and releasing to the length of the belt run and cycling the tensioner through it's range.
The question now is why is the belt moving, and why does it only do it from a stone cold start for ~30 seconds? I'm wondering whether the idler pulley that precedes the alternator in the belt route might have some play in it.
Al
Do you have any information on what the updated (5th gen) pulley kit is, or looks like versus the standard parts?
I know mine has had later parts fitted at some point as I've got metal pulleys throughout and I seem to recall early engines had some plastic pulleys involved, or was that the supercharger belt....?
Anyway I've done some more investigating on my issue and it appears that the belt is riding up on the outisde lip of the alternator pulley, then dropping back down to where it should run, this up and down is adding and releasing to the length of the belt run and cycling the tensioner through it's range.
The question now is why is the belt moving, and why does it only do it from a stone cold start for ~30 seconds? I'm wondering whether the idler pulley that precedes the alternator in the belt route might have some play in it.
Al
Hi
The only info I have is the 5th generation has a lip on it, with it being fitted to the car in my absence I did not make comparison, sorry.
If you call Rybrook ar Warrington their parts department are helpful and may well describe it over the phone. It certainly appears to have cured the fault in the short term.....
If thats not helpful the Jag Specialist I use is Stephen Heywood in Rochdale, he did the job
The only info I have is the 5th generation has a lip on it, with it being fitted to the car in my absence I did not make comparison, sorry.
If you call Rybrook ar Warrington their parts department are helpful and may well describe it over the phone. It certainly appears to have cured the fault in the short term.....
If thats not helpful the Jag Specialist I use is Stephen Heywood in Rochdale, he did the job
Zippyworld said:
Hi
The only info I have is the 5th generation has a lip on it, with it being fitted to the car in my absence I did not make comparison, sorry.
If you call Rybrook ar Warrington their parts department are helpful and may well describe it over the phone. It certainly appears to have cured the fault in the short term.....
If thats not helpful the Jag Specialist I use is Stephen Heywood in Rochdale, he did the job
Going round in circles now, despite the new modified tensioner, two days after a long run out, I started it from cold and the knocking sound from the tensioner reappeared on a cold start up and disappeared after 15 - 30 seconds or so. So it either squeals or knocks....The only info I have is the 5th generation has a lip on it, with it being fitted to the car in my absence I did not make comparison, sorry.
If you call Rybrook ar Warrington their parts department are helpful and may well describe it over the phone. It certainly appears to have cured the fault in the short term.....
If thats not helpful the Jag Specialist I use is Stephen Heywood in Rochdale, he did the job
It has now been replaced yet again....pick it up on Monday....
This is gonna need some thinking out of the box.
Its still not happy from a cold start, squeal and a knock from the tensioner.
Running it every day improves it, to the point that it disappears, its in my garage for a couple of weeks and I know when I start it, I will get the knocking and swuealing from the aux belt....
Its still not happy from a cold start, squeal and a knock from the tensioner.
Running it every day improves it, to the point that it disappears, its in my garage for a couple of weeks and I know when I start it, I will get the knocking and swuealing from the aux belt....
Al Murphy said:
Jez
Do you have any information on what the updated (5th gen) pulley kit is, or looks like versus the standard parts?
I know mine has had later parts fitted at some point as I've got metal pulleys throughout and I seem to recall early engines had some plastic pulleys involved, or was that the supercharger belt....?
Anyway I've done some more investigating on my issue and it appears that the belt is riding up on the outisde lip of the alternator pulley, then dropping back down to where it should run, this up and down is adding and releasing to the length of the belt run and cycling the tensioner through it's range.
The question now is why is the belt moving, and why does it only do it from a stone cold start for ~30 seconds? I'm wondering whether the idler pulley that precedes the alternator in the belt route might have some play in it.
Al
The car is going into a Main Dealer next week, my Indy has a good relationship with them and they have agreed to take a look. Watch this space.Do you have any information on what the updated (5th gen) pulley kit is, or looks like versus the standard parts?
I know mine has had later parts fitted at some point as I've got metal pulleys throughout and I seem to recall early engines had some plastic pulleys involved, or was that the supercharger belt....?
Anyway I've done some more investigating on my issue and it appears that the belt is riding up on the outisde lip of the alternator pulley, then dropping back down to where it should run, this up and down is adding and releasing to the length of the belt run and cycling the tensioner through it's range.
The question now is why is the belt moving, and why does it only do it from a stone cold start for ~30 seconds? I'm wondering whether the idler pulley that precedes the alternator in the belt route might have some play in it.
Al
Update : The main dealer are suggesting, although not definitively, that the Crankshaft Pulley is at fault here. The rubber collar in the damper looks like it may be prone to movement.
They are saying this based on the most likely issue as they cannot find anything else at fault.
The quote was understandably north of £2k.
I have decided to buy a used one and opt for the Lower Pulley Upgrade offered by Powerhouse based in Chesterfield which, if it cures the fault, will be less than half the price with the added bonus of more beans on tap.
Will keep you informed (for those interested)
They are saying this based on the most likely issue as they cannot find anything else at fault.
The quote was understandably north of £2k.
I have decided to buy a used one and opt for the Lower Pulley Upgrade offered by Powerhouse based in Chesterfield which, if it cures the fault, will be less than half the price with the added bonus of more beans on tap.
Will keep you informed (for those interested)
As an update to my tensioner knocking issue I have now replaced the idler pulley (Jaguar part number C2C22758) and it appears to have cured the problem I was having, although I did not have any belt squeal, just the belt travelling laterally across the alternator pulley. It was run daily for a couple of weeks post the pulley replacement and has just had a couple of weeks of no use followed by a clack free start this morning.
I did toy with the idea of experimenting to see if the same pulley from the 4.2 litre engine would fit (part number C2C37064) as that has lips either side but I couldn't find dimensions for it and didn't want to potentially waste £40 and more time with the car apart.
It's interesting to note that the part bought from my local Jaguar dealership came in a Jaguar labelled bag with their part number on the label however the pulley in the bag is a FoMoCo part with the part number 2W93-19A216-BA. Whether one of these can be sourced for less is something I didn't look into.
Hope you get yours sorted soon Zippy, mine appears to be back to silent running. I'd been thinking about selling it, but wafting around again has put me back in mind to give it a good polish and keep it another few months.
Al
I did toy with the idea of experimenting to see if the same pulley from the 4.2 litre engine would fit (part number C2C37064) as that has lips either side but I couldn't find dimensions for it and didn't want to potentially waste £40 and more time with the car apart.
It's interesting to note that the part bought from my local Jaguar dealership came in a Jaguar labelled bag with their part number on the label however the pulley in the bag is a FoMoCo part with the part number 2W93-19A216-BA. Whether one of these can be sourced for less is something I didn't look into.
Hope you get yours sorted soon Zippy, mine appears to be back to silent running. I'd been thinking about selling it, but wafting around again has put me back in mind to give it a good polish and keep it another few months.
Al
Interesting. Please let me know how it goes as I had thought mine was cured too.
The only other possible issue could be a dowel on the alternator, or a similar other unit linked with the Aux belt, has snapped and allowed a slippage. This will be the last resort for me to check after the lower pulley upgrade.
Good Luck with it and keep it ! Sold mine through PH and the buyer was kind enough to let me have it back. I was a miserable git when it went ha ha !
The only other possible issue could be a dowel on the alternator, or a similar other unit linked with the Aux belt, has snapped and allowed a slippage. This will be the last resort for me to check after the lower pulley upgrade.
Good Luck with it and keep it ! Sold mine through PH and the buyer was kind enough to let me have it back. I was a miserable git when it went ha ha !
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