5.0 supercharged AJ133 misfiring down one bank, sounds bad.
Discussion
edit: please see updated post further down. I was mistaken with the cylinder numbering - it's actually the back four cylinders, not one bank at all.
July-2014 XFR with about 41,000 miles on it.
Anybody recognise these noises or symptoms? Was fine, came off motorway, then was wobbling and smoking. Lots of unburnt fuel coming through the left-side pipe. Diagnostics show misfire on cylinders 5 to 8, which is the (UK) passenger side bank (bank b).
I am wondering if the fuel pressure stuff is a consequence of something else, or a likely cause ?
Here's a youtube video: https://youtu.be/llwRSKKxJGA
In terms of fault codes, it always immediately detects a misfire on cylinder 6, and then the rest on that bank follow after.
Stored fault codes are:
P0300 - random misfire detected
P0306 - cylinder 6 misfire
P0307 - cyl 7 misfire
P1315 - persistent misfire
P228F fuel pressure regulator 1 exceeded learning limits - too high
also a tempory faul code of:
P00C6 - Fuel rail pressure too low - engine cranking
P0306 - cylinder 6 misfire
P0305 - cyl 5 misfire
P0308 - cyl 8 misfire
P0307 - cyl 7 misfire
so it's misfiring down one bank, and reporting fuel pressure regulator problems.
July-2014 XFR with about 41,000 miles on it.
Anybody recognise these noises or symptoms? Was fine, came off motorway, then was wobbling and smoking. Lots of unburnt fuel coming through the left-side pipe. Diagnostics show misfire on cylinders 5 to 8, which is the (UK) passenger side bank (bank b).
I am wondering if the fuel pressure stuff is a consequence of something else, or a likely cause ?
Here's a youtube video: https://youtu.be/llwRSKKxJGA
In terms of fault codes, it always immediately detects a misfire on cylinder 6, and then the rest on that bank follow after.
Stored fault codes are:
P0300 - random misfire detected
P0306 - cylinder 6 misfire
P0307 - cyl 7 misfire
P1315 - persistent misfire
P228F fuel pressure regulator 1 exceeded learning limits - too high
also a tempory faul code of:
P00C6 - Fuel rail pressure too low - engine cranking
P0306 - cylinder 6 misfire
P0305 - cyl 5 misfire
P0308 - cyl 8 misfire
P0307 - cyl 7 misfire
so it's misfiring down one bank, and reporting fuel pressure regulator problems.
Edited by carl0s on Wednesday 14th November 20:50
Edited by carl0s on Friday 16th November 16:45
Yeah, a stretched cam chain and/or failed tensioner causes all sorts of errors. The 5.0 is know for this.
I have just had all my chains, guides and tensioners replaced by the Jag Specialist in Notts.
I would stop running it in case you get any sort of piston/valve contact.
Was it making any sorts of noises prior to this?
I have just had all my chains, guides and tensioners replaced by the Jag Specialist in Notts.
I would stop running it in case you get any sort of piston/valve contact.
Was it making any sorts of noises prior to this?
skinthespin said:
Yeah, a stretched cam chain and/or failed tensioner causes all sorts of errors. The 5.0 is know for this.
I have just had all my chains, guides and tensioners replaced by the Jag Specialist in Notts.
I would stop running it in case you get any sort of piston/valve contact.
Was it making any sorts of noises prior to this?
Can I ask how much they charged , I've heard some horrific quotes I have just had all my chains, guides and tensioners replaced by the Jag Specialist in Notts.
I would stop running it in case you get any sort of piston/valve contact.
Was it making any sorts of noises prior to this?
In terms of misfire, could be the injectors down the one side.
I had something similar to this, after the engine was replaced; ended up replacing all the injectors and both fuel pumps, to correct the issue.
One injector would fail after another one was replaced.
Once all the injector and pumps were replaced, I've not (touch wood) had a misfire/fuelling issue since.
I had something similar to this, after the engine was replaced; ended up replacing all the injectors and both fuel pumps, to correct the issue.
One injector would fail after another one was replaced.
Once all the injector and pumps were replaced, I've not (touch wood) had a misfire/fuelling issue since.
I inotially wondered if the 5.0 tensioner/chain issues might cause this; I guess it's possible. I thought that the tensioners were redesigned as from c2014, so not sure whether OP's car would have the modified ones.
The codes re pressure regulator, however, might be a better bet and would presumably cause misfiring if outside set parameters. Off the top if my head, not sure how chain/tensioner would affect fuel pressure.
The codes re pressure regulator, however, might be a better bet and would presumably cause misfiring if outside set parameters. Off the top if my head, not sure how chain/tensioner would affect fuel pressure.
XFRFred said:
In terms of misfire, could be the injectors down the one side.
I had something similar to this, after the engine was replaced; ended up replacing all the injectors and both fuel pumps, to correct the issue.
One injector would fail after another one was replaced.
Once all the injector and pumps were replaced, I've not (touch wood) had a misfire/fuelling issue since.
Do you not think that that was contamination introduced when everything was apart ? It seemed a remarkable coincidence to me at the time I had something similar to this, after the engine was replaced; ended up replacing all the injectors and both fuel pumps, to correct the issue.
One injector would fail after another one was replaced.
Once all the injector and pumps were replaced, I've not (touch wood) had a misfire/fuelling issue since.
Sorry guys, I didn't receive reply notifications..
I was mistaken with the cylinder numbering. It's the rear 4 cylinders - 5,6,7,8. Misfire always reported for cylinder 6 immediately, followed by 5,7,8 gradually. Bad noise suspected to just be unloaded supercharger being driven by misfiring engine, i.e. to be expected and not panic over.
Have some injectors & tools on their way. Will start with no6 alone, and then the rest obviously.
Not a good time of year for it, daylight wise.
Anybody got any other thoughts with it being the rear of the engine? If it looks to be really bad, the car will go in the back yard while I acquire parts or take time over it.
It's an 07/2014 8spd stop/start 5.0 direct injection supercharged with 41,000 miles.
I was mistaken with the cylinder numbering. It's the rear 4 cylinders - 5,6,7,8. Misfire always reported for cylinder 6 immediately, followed by 5,7,8 gradually. Bad noise suspected to just be unloaded supercharger being driven by misfiring engine, i.e. to be expected and not panic over.
Have some injectors & tools on their way. Will start with no6 alone, and then the rest obviously.
Not a good time of year for it, daylight wise.
Anybody got any other thoughts with it being the rear of the engine? If it looks to be really bad, the car will go in the back yard while I acquire parts or take time over it.
It's an 07/2014 8spd stop/start 5.0 direct injection supercharged with 41,000 miles.
Right, well here's a turn up, and maybe an idea next time anyone else has a cylinder down & random misfires over ~4 cylinders:
The car is now running fine. We nannied it home (2 - 3 miles) from the office carpark late last night, trying to barely use the throttle. I have been back to the car a number of times in the week, using SDD and other tools to read/clear faults, etc, and it's been completely down one cylinder, smoking a lot and wobbling/shaking.
Well, while trying to get it into my back garden this morning, ready for me to pull the fuel rails and swap 1 or more injectors this week (I have 5 new injectors coming on Monday.. got a good deal on them), well it ran out of fuel. I cranked it a few times, but was pretty sure it was just out of fuel..
I was trapped in the car because the driveway down the side of my house is pretty narrow, so I phoned my girlfriend to come and move the wheelie bins that were by the car's rear door, then climbed out. I went and got some petrol, put it in, and, after about 5 attempts to start, it ran absolutely fine. I've been out in it and covered quite a few miles, stopped / started about 5 times over the afternoon, and, touch-wood, it's fine. I've put some injector cleaner into it. I sort of think those things are snake-oil, but JLR do recommend trying some BG 44K when you have 5.0 injector failure, so maybe there's something to it.
It was misfiring / not running at all on cylinder no6, and then the surrounding back 4 cylinders, (4, 5 & 7) would intermittently misfire. On that basis I was going to change injector no6, and then if it still didn't run, I'd change the other 3 (not in an attempt to save money, but more to understand what had actually failed rather than just replacing all 4 injectors in one go). I was doing that on the basis that it might be one completely down cylinder causing the surrounding cylinders to run badly.
I can only assume that cranking with empty fuel lines has cleared a stuck injector. This may be a new thing for people to try when they have these symptoms. I had been back to the car many times over the week and it was well and truly knackered. Now it's sweet as anything. The nasty rattle from the top of the engine is apparently expected from an un-loaded supercharger, and especially from the supercharger when the engine is misfiring.
The crazy thing is, if there had been just a drop more fuel in the car, I hadn't run out of fuel, I'd never have known, and I'd be well on my way to fitting new injectors..
Oh, I forgot to say, after it started running properly, I ran the powertrain adaptation reset from SDD to reset fuel trims.
The car is now running fine. We nannied it home (2 - 3 miles) from the office carpark late last night, trying to barely use the throttle. I have been back to the car a number of times in the week, using SDD and other tools to read/clear faults, etc, and it's been completely down one cylinder, smoking a lot and wobbling/shaking.
Well, while trying to get it into my back garden this morning, ready for me to pull the fuel rails and swap 1 or more injectors this week (I have 5 new injectors coming on Monday.. got a good deal on them), well it ran out of fuel. I cranked it a few times, but was pretty sure it was just out of fuel..
I was trapped in the car because the driveway down the side of my house is pretty narrow, so I phoned my girlfriend to come and move the wheelie bins that were by the car's rear door, then climbed out. I went and got some petrol, put it in, and, after about 5 attempts to start, it ran absolutely fine. I've been out in it and covered quite a few miles, stopped / started about 5 times over the afternoon, and, touch-wood, it's fine. I've put some injector cleaner into it. I sort of think those things are snake-oil, but JLR do recommend trying some BG 44K when you have 5.0 injector failure, so maybe there's something to it.
It was misfiring / not running at all on cylinder no6, and then the surrounding back 4 cylinders, (4, 5 & 7) would intermittently misfire. On that basis I was going to change injector no6, and then if it still didn't run, I'd change the other 3 (not in an attempt to save money, but more to understand what had actually failed rather than just replacing all 4 injectors in one go). I was doing that on the basis that it might be one completely down cylinder causing the surrounding cylinders to run badly.
I can only assume that cranking with empty fuel lines has cleared a stuck injector. This may be a new thing for people to try when they have these symptoms. I had been back to the car many times over the week and it was well and truly knackered. Now it's sweet as anything. The nasty rattle from the top of the engine is apparently expected from an un-loaded supercharger, and especially from the supercharger when the engine is misfiring.
The crazy thing is, if there had been just a drop more fuel in the car, I hadn't run out of fuel, I'd never have known, and I'd be well on my way to fitting new injectors..
Oh, I forgot to say, after it started running properly, I ran the powertrain adaptation reset from SDD to reset fuel trims.
Edited by carl0s on Sunday 18th November 22:00
skinthespin said:
Sorry, only just seen this.
Appreciate OP has thankfully cured his issues but getting cam chains done was £2k, that included guides, tensioners and plugs.
Jaguar wanted over £5k.....
Who did you have your chains replaced by? Could be useful for those suffering with cam chain stretch in future. Appreciate OP has thankfully cured his issues but getting cam chains done was £2k, that included guides, tensioners and plugs.
Jaguar wanted over £5k.....
liner33 said:
Do you not think that that was contamination introduced when everything was apart ? It seemed a remarkable coincidence to me at the time
Yes, I agree, and my fault was due to Incompetence. However, the symptoms sounded very similar.
Is there not a possibility that something may have worked its way into the system, from tank?
carl0s said:
Right, well here's a turn up, and maybe an idea next time anyone else has a cylinder down & random misfires over ~4 cylinders:
The car is now running fine. We nannied it home (2 - 3 miles) from the office carpark late last night, trying to barely use the throttle. I have been back to the car a number of times in the week, using SDD and other tools to read/clear faults, etc, and it's been completely down one cylinder, smoking a lot and wobbling/shaking.
Well, while trying to get it into my back garden this morning, ready for me to pull the fuel rails and swap 1 or more injectors this week (I have 5 new injectors coming on Monday.. got a good deal on them), well it ran out of fuel. I cranked it a few times, but was pretty sure it was just out of fuel..
I was trapped in the car because the driveway down the side of my house is pretty narrow, so I phoned my girlfriend to come and move the wheelie bins that were by the car's rear door, then climbed out. I went and got some petrol, put it in, and, after about 5 attempts to start, it ran absolutely fine. I've been out in it and covered quite a few miles, stopped / started about 5 times over the afternoon, and, touch-wood, it's fine. I've put some injector cleaner into it. I sort of think those things are snake-oil, but JLR do recommend trying some BG 44K when you have 5.0 injector failure, so maybe there's something to it.
It was misfiring / not running at all on cylinder no6, and then the surrounding back 4 cylinders, (4, 5 & 7) would intermittently misfire. On that basis I was going to change injector no6, and then if it still didn't run, I'd change the other 3 (not in an attempt to save money, but more to understand what had actually failed rather than just replacing all 4 injectors in one go). I was doing that on the basis that it might be one completely down cylinder causing the surrounding cylinders to run badly.
I can only assume that cranking with empty fuel lines has cleared a stuck injector. This may be a new thing for people to try when they have these symptoms. I had been back to the car many times over the week and it was well and truly knackered. Now it's sweet as anything. The nasty rattle from the top of the engine is apparently expected from an un-loaded supercharger, and especially from the supercharger when the engine is misfiring.
The crazy thing is, if there had been just a drop more fuel in the car, I hadn't run out of fuel, I'd never have known, and I'd be well on my way to fitting new injectors..
Oh, I forgot to say, after it started running properly, I ran the powertrain adaptation reset from SDD to reset fuel trims.
VVT issues ? I had a noise (randomly ) appear that sounded like timing chain rattle/tensioners and it ended up being the VVT units that were worn. i had them replaced at the same time as the chain (as it was due). The car is now running fine. We nannied it home (2 - 3 miles) from the office carpark late last night, trying to barely use the throttle. I have been back to the car a number of times in the week, using SDD and other tools to read/clear faults, etc, and it's been completely down one cylinder, smoking a lot and wobbling/shaking.
Well, while trying to get it into my back garden this morning, ready for me to pull the fuel rails and swap 1 or more injectors this week (I have 5 new injectors coming on Monday.. got a good deal on them), well it ran out of fuel. I cranked it a few times, but was pretty sure it was just out of fuel..
I was trapped in the car because the driveway down the side of my house is pretty narrow, so I phoned my girlfriend to come and move the wheelie bins that were by the car's rear door, then climbed out. I went and got some petrol, put it in, and, after about 5 attempts to start, it ran absolutely fine. I've been out in it and covered quite a few miles, stopped / started about 5 times over the afternoon, and, touch-wood, it's fine. I've put some injector cleaner into it. I sort of think those things are snake-oil, but JLR do recommend trying some BG 44K when you have 5.0 injector failure, so maybe there's something to it.
It was misfiring / not running at all on cylinder no6, and then the surrounding back 4 cylinders, (4, 5 & 7) would intermittently misfire. On that basis I was going to change injector no6, and then if it still didn't run, I'd change the other 3 (not in an attempt to save money, but more to understand what had actually failed rather than just replacing all 4 injectors in one go). I was doing that on the basis that it might be one completely down cylinder causing the surrounding cylinders to run badly.
I can only assume that cranking with empty fuel lines has cleared a stuck injector. This may be a new thing for people to try when they have these symptoms. I had been back to the car many times over the week and it was well and truly knackered. Now it's sweet as anything. The nasty rattle from the top of the engine is apparently expected from an un-loaded supercharger, and especially from the supercharger when the engine is misfiring.
The crazy thing is, if there had been just a drop more fuel in the car, I hadn't run out of fuel, I'd never have known, and I'd be well on my way to fitting new injectors..
Oh, I forgot to say, after it started running properly, I ran the powertrain adaptation reset from SDD to reset fuel trims.
Edited by carl0s on Sunday 18th November 22:00
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