Current Jaguar Range

Current Jaguar Range

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bad company

Original Poster:

11,112 posts

214 months

Tuesday 5th February
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Triple7 said:
There is a market for saloons, but a BMW 3/5 Series, is still way more desireable, higher quality, better finance deals and have a whole range of engine and body types to suit all customers, than the XE, XF range. XJ or a 7 Series/S Class.
This. yes

Though I still have a hankering for an F Type. If they did something about the pricing I just might.

cardigankid

7,671 posts

160 months

Tuesday 5th February
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8bit said:
I have an XKR yes, your point being? That doesn't make this "personal", I have no personal affection towards Jaguar, only that I like my car...... people are not buying large, luxury saloons any more.
Unless the saloons are made by BMW, Mercedes or Audi. What Jag had in that respect was a fast good looking 4 door coupe with Bentley like interiors. The closest the Germans have got to that is the BMW 6 Series Gran Coupe, and good though it is it doesn’t have the agility Jag does have. It suffers from BMW’s current disease which is overweight.

Jag have imho got the SUV’s absolutely right, you have to give them that. We have an F Pace 2.0 AWD, a reasonably high end model, and you can’t fault it, though I took the step of having it Dinitrolled which shows you what I think. However the company’s image is being tarnished by the saloons which ought to be Jag’s strong suit.

toastyhamster

843 posts

44 months

Tuesday 5th February
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Just bought an 18 plate R-sport XE, but I really agree with the comments on here. It's not just Jag, a lot of current range offerings are just so narrow (anybody looked at Insignia engine choice!?). It just so happened that I'd ticked the Audi box, no desire to get into a Beemer so the Jag was a decent choice of petrol engine with looks I liked instead of having to live with.

No regrets, but then again I'm not looking for walnut dash waftiness, the XJ owners can hanker after that, or maybe me when I get a bit older (not much older!)

cardigankid

7,671 posts

160 months

Tuesday 5th February
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Triple7 said:
As peeps have said and I agree, Jaguar haven’t a scoobies what they are doing.....they are chasing volumes, at the cost of the brand. The accounts have taken control, they have ditched their history and have followed the crowd. Porsche pricing, for Vauxhall products.

I personally think that Mr Callum’s time has past and like the Bangle era at BMW, there needs to be a change. Yes, loved his XK, XJ, F-Type, but that’s where it ends for me.

There is a market for saloons, but a BMW 3/5 Series, is still way more desireable, higher quality, better finance deals and have a whole range of engine and body types to suit all customers, than the XE, XF range. XJ or a 7 Series/S Class.....

C’mon JLR, if you make it right, I will buy....
Couldn’t put it better myself.

My personal Jaguar record:-

1973 V12 E Type S3 Roadster
2002 XKR Convertible
2004 X350 XJR wonderful wonderful wonderful
2005 XKR Coupe
2005 XK8 4.2 S Coupe
2006 XKR 4.2 S Convertible
2006 XK8 4.2 S Convertible
2006 3.0 S Type Sport Manual
2008 X358 XJR
2014 XK 4.2 Dynamic R Convertible

Sequentially, not all at the same time you understand, so I am not anti Jaguar.

Something about the current range isn’t right. The first XF seemed a good step forward from the S Type but since then it has morphed into a poor BMW 5 Series lookalike. I don’t know who makes the decisions in a corporation that size, so it is unfair to blame one man. However, contrary to the blurb, I don’t think that Jaguar looks were ever about cutting edge modernity for its own sake. It was about style. Modern design is about functionality, though the car designers are also fond of introducing some gimmickry, presumably to make them different to last year’s model. However, the additional challenge for the car designer is to do all that but also capture the car’s heritage. Would I buy a BMW that is totally different to every BMW I know and love from the past? No. I would want one which is reinterpreted but recognisable. If I buy a Ferrari I want one which is going not only to deliver the performance, handling, looks and sound I want, but epitomises all the beautiful Ferrari’s which I am never going to own, like the 246GT, the Daytona, 365GT BB etc. And it would deliver.

It used to be said of Jaguars that they were the one car where you could trace the bloodline from model to model, from the start. For the current generation, they threw that out, and started with a new concept based on the four door fastback, but however cleverly it is done it isn’t Jaguar and it hasn’t worked. The fastback design compromises the rear seats. That is the point at which Sir William Lyons would have left the room. I think that retro design was blamed for Jaguar’s problems, when in fact the problem was they had churned out too many unreliable rust buckets. An element of recollection of the great Jags of old is an emotive link which is essential to the experience. Some retro design might actually be pretty cool in the right package with the right build quality, right performance and right price. It works for Mini, Fiat, Wiesmann, Bentley, Rolls-Royce, why not for Jaguar? In fact, Bentley and Rolls-Royce are masters of this, and consistently turn out new designs which are modern but loaded with valuable references to their heritage.

The XK was a big good looking comfortable GT which was also fast and agile. It could have done with being better built with more hard edged options throughout the range. Some of us enthusiasts would also have liked a manual gearbox. The S Type by the time the gremlins and build quality were sorted out was a damn good car.

The F Type was misconceived. Everybody does it. The new BMW 8 Series is misconceived. The current XJ, however, is a plug, lets be frank. It’s front, sides and back could come from different cars. It is slab sided, something Jags never were. The interior is reasonable but bling for the sake of bling, where Sir W would have had bling for the sake of style. The driving position is good but feels like one from a smaller Jaguar. I once drove my X350 XJR on a 270 mile circular trip for the pure joy of driving it. Hard to see myself doing that in the current model.

The XE is just unexciting. They would have been better making the XF more like the C-XF and only launched it with powerful engines. Then they could have saved on Type development and offered a cheaper stripped out model with the same body with smaller engines, something like the 240 and 340, not to say the XJ6 2.8 of old, which allowed the less well funded to have the Jaguar experience.

But the fundamental problem is the XJ. IMHO it was done too fast without enough thought. The XJ is where they need to start, not where they should stop, as is currently being mooted, and they should look very hard at the original 1967 XJ6, something Ian Callum said he did, though it is hard to see any evidence of it. A sleek, sophisticated, fast, well built 4 door executive sports saloon / limousine (maybe on the lines of the brilliant William Towns Lagonda) would sell like hot cakes. I would say the world is crying out for it. Jag must seize that opportunity, and everything else will follow. Otherwise it is going to become a sub brand of LR.

300bhp/ton

37,730 posts

138 months

Tuesday 5th February
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Have to say. I was always a Jag fan. My Dad had a number. Many of which I had access too.

XJ40 3.6 auto
XJ12 6.0 - one of the best cars I’ve ever driven!!
X300 4.0
XJ40 2.9
XJ40 3.6 manual - shouldn’t have sold this one
XJ-S V12
X-Type

And probably a few others. Have also been in many others S3 V13, XJR6, XK8, S-Type, x308.

And tbh I’d have any of them again. But the current range just missing the mark for me. It simply isn’t “Jaguar”.

Tbh having had a good poke around these, I lament they didn’t pursue this design language for the newer models. These seem to still have some of the Jaguar DNA and elegance about them.


johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

112 months

Wednesday 6th February
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The XF came out in 2007 and the new XJ in 2009 they didn't look like traditional Jaguars and they still don't.
Doesn't mean they do not have the DNA in them of a Jag and you cant keep making the same style cars for ever because the people who buy them will eventually die.
The post 2009 cars have grown on me and the XFR in particular is a car I would like to own in the not too distant future

bad company

Original Poster:

11,112 posts

214 months

Wednesday 6th February
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johnxjsc1985 said:
The post 2009 cars have grown on me and the XFR in particular is a car I would like to own in the not too distant future
But the XFR isn’t available anymore and as far as I can see it hasn’t been replaced. It’s now a case of ‘which dull 2 litre would you like sir’?

The Leaper

3,454 posts

154 months

Wednesday 6th February
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I grew up with the traditional view of Jaguar cars: sporty, comfortable fast cruisers, perhaps often overpowered. They always seemed the kind of cars that appealed to me but were unaffordable. Later in life I could afford them and over a period of 16 years or so I had three Jaguars in succession: a first edition S Type 4.0 V8 SE for 3 years, another S Type, this time a 4.2 V8 SE which I had for 10 years (both of these were ex demo cars almost new), and then a 3 years old an XF 5.0 V8 Portfolio + which I had for 3 years.

All these cars were either trouble free or repaired under warranty without difficulty. I enjoyed all 3. The second S Type was a vast improvement over the first. The XF was certainly the best performer but it was skittish and the least Jaguar like in terms of ride, image etc. Having large V8s was I think the key as to why I really liked these cars and considered that in general they fitted the Jaguar image.

I agree that Jaguar has lost its way. It seems to be a manufacturer producing ordinary cars and has lost its traditional appeal: fine cars, sporty, comfy, status. This goes back to the XF and the cars that followed. I think the last most traditional Jaguar was the XK, a superb car in my view.

Since the XF I've had a Land Rover Discovery Sport 2.2L HSE Lux for 2 years or so. I switched to an SUV because my wife was finding access and comfort with the XF unsatisfactory. I was really concerned about the drop in power and performance but this has not really been missed, and there's features of the DS that have been very worthwhile having. I intend to keep this car for a good number of years.

Will I go back to a Jaguar? No, not until they get back to their previous image. If they did this will their cars be affordable? Hmm....

R.




300bhp/ton

37,730 posts

138 months

Wednesday 6th February
quotequote all
bad company said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
The post 2009 cars have grown on me and the XFR in particular is a car I would like to own in the not too distant future
But the XFR isn’t available anymore and as far as I can see it hasn’t been replaced. It’s now a case of ‘which dull 2 litre would you like sir’?
I actually had a play about on the Jaguar car builder last night. Firstly I'm ashamed to admit I hadn't realised the XK wasn't available anymore, although I always thought it odd they sold it and the F-Type side by side. Sadly this shows how little interest I've had in Jaguar in recent times and how little I've visited their website.

I then spent sometime looking at the XE. And yes, it was a choice of 2.0 petrol or 2.0 litre diesel. Or the same with the addition of AWD.

Some of the other options seemed interesting. I still don't like the look of them though.


8bit

2,779 posts

103 months

Wednesday 6th February
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bad company said:
You do seem to have been very defensive of Jaguar right from the off on this thread.
Nope, I just wasn't clear from your original post whether you actually wanted help to find a suitable car, or simply to vent about not liking the current Jaguar range. The latter point has been played to death in here. I'm pretty sure I said in one of my later posts that I don't find a lot that appeals to me in the current range either but I was never really in the market for a luxury saloon in the first place.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

112 months

Wednesday 6th February
quotequote all
bad company said:
But the XFR isn’t available anymore and as far as I can see it hasn’t been replaced. It’s now a case of ‘which dull 2 litre would you like sir’?
I think they have tried to shadow BMW and that isn't going to end well. People bought Jaguar's for a reason they have understandably looked to expand their customer base but I think they have done it at the expense of traditional Jag drivers.

bad company

Original Poster:

11,112 posts

214 months

Wednesday 6th February
quotequote all
johnxjsc1985 said:
bad company said:
But the XFR isn’t available anymore and as far as I can see it hasn’t been replaced. It’s now a case of ‘which dull 2 litre would you like sir’?
I think they have tried to shadow BMW and that isn't going to end well. People bought Jaguar's for a reason they have understandably looked to expand their customer base but I think they have done it at the expense of traditional Jag drivers.
I can’t see any effort to shadow BMW. If you take the 3 & 5 series as XE & XF equivalents the beemers offer a far better range of engines and specs. The XJ which should be the flagship seems to be diesel only.

REALIST123

12,314 posts

101 months

Wednesday 6th February
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fatboy b said:
And so what? It’s currently a crap line up. Who cares if we keep debating it. Don’t like a thread, trot on my friend.
He’s spot on. Pointless repetition.

Why not take you’re own advice and, if you don’t like what Jaguar offer, trot on my friend?

It really is that easy.

300bhp/ton

37,730 posts

138 months

Wednesday 6th February
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
fatboy b said:
And so what? It’s currently a crap line up. Who cares if we keep debating it. Don’t like a thread, trot on my friend.
He’s spot on. Pointless repetition.

Why not take you’re own advice and, if you don’t like what Jaguar offer, trot on my friend?

It really is that easy.
Well not really. Because there may be different people discussing similar or even the same things here. Just because one person has discussed it once, is hardly rational to say nobody else is now allowed to discuss it.

cardigankid

7,671 posts

160 months

Wednesday 6th February
quotequote all
bad company said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
bad company said:
But the XFR isn’t available anymore and as far as I can see it hasn’t been replaced. It’s now a case of ‘which dull 2 litre would you like sir’?
I think they have tried to shadow BMW and that isn't going to end well. People bought Jaguar's for a reason they have understandably looked to expand their customer base but I think they have done it at the expense of traditional Jag drivers.
I can’t see any effort to shadow BMW. If you take the 3 & 5 series as XE & XF equivalents the beemers offer a far better range of engines and specs. The XJ which should be the flagship seems to be diesel only.
Hello? XE, XF, XJ = 3Series, 5 Series, 7 Series. Couldn't have shadowed them better.

a8hex

5,015 posts

171 months

Wednesday 6th February
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cardigankid said:
Hello? XE, XF, XJ = 3Series, 5 Series, 7 Series. Couldn't have shadowed them better.
Well, accept the 7 series was introduced in about 77 so should be considered as shadowing the XJ biggrin

BenjiS

570 posts

39 months

Wednesday 6th February
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And yet, for all these things Jaguar are supposedly doing wrong, they’re selling more cars than they ever have before.

Who’s right?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/763140/jaguar-...

Looking at this, the Ford era and it’s designs nearly killed them. The Tata purchase, the launch of the XF, and then the F-Pace are all noticeable on this graph, and without them, the company simply wouldn’t exist. Whatever older fans may think, they’re building the right cars for their market now and thus surviving as a company.

Edited by BenjiS on Wednesday 6th February 20:33

bad company

Original Poster:

11,112 posts

214 months

Wednesday 6th February
quotequote all
cardigankid said:
Hello? XE, XF, XJ = 3Series, 5 Series, 7 Series. Couldn't have shadowed them better.
With the current lineup/options/engines who would pick a jag over the Beemer in any of those classes?

Not me.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

112 months

Wednesday 6th February
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bad company said:
With the current lineup/options/engines who would pick a jag over the Beemer in any of those classes?

Not me.
hurry up before they put tariffs on them.
I went along to the 50th Anniversary of the XJ in September. All the models were represented from the very first to the present XJ.
You could see the progression right through the years until 2009/10 when the XJ changed and so did Jaguar.

Olivera

3,587 posts

187 months

Wednesday 6th February
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I've stated my opinion before, but I reckon that despite its flaws, this is the best Jaguar range for at least 30 years.

In particular I've no love at all for the later Ford era cars, in retrospective they're either rotten worthless scrapers (X and S type), a bulbous XK or an octagenarian express XJ.

What could improve with the current range? The XF and XE need more variants, or perhaps even amalgamated. The XJ should be rebooted as a much more stylish 4 seat coupe, either hybrid or EV. Perhaps even a small car is needed to rival the A1/A3 or A Class.