Thierry Bollore Departs Jaguar

[RingSpanner]

I am surprised it has taken so long for his “Reimagine” program to be recognised for the failure that it is…..

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-corpor...

Edited by RingSpanner on Tuesday 22 November 07:51

[Simpo Two]

'The strategy was headlined by the repositioning of Jaguar as an all-electric luxury brand from 2025, and by the axing of the marque's then-imminent electric XJ luxury saloon, which had already reached an advanced stage of development.'

Seems a contradiction to me. You want electric and luxury, then scrap electric and luxury...

'JLR said: "We have made the tough decision that it will not form part of the line-up, as the brand looks to realise its unique potential."'

And why is its potential more unique than anyone else's? It hasn't happened yet and all the heritage has gone in the bin. It's fantasy, just like Aston under Stroll.

[Seven8Seven]

I stopped buying the brand as soon as THB axed the Jaguar line up. Aside the refreshed F-Pace SVR, where is the excitement in the brand…..

[Simpo Two]

Seven8Seven said:

I stopped buying the brand as soon as THB axed the Jaguar line up. Aside the refreshed F-Pace SVR, where is the excitement in the brand…..

Quite. The most recent Jaguar I'd buy is an XK/R X150 - discontinued in 2014 because it was too much like a Jaguar.

[reddiesel]

It will be little surprise that I agree with you on all counts Simpo . For me its a Brand that has completely lost its way and I can see the comparisons with Aston as I have been recently hanging around the Works at Newport Pagnell . DBS apart the Cars are hard to love .

[RingSpanner]

With hindsight, relying on a government statement ( ie in this case the transition to electric power ) across the board at one fixed time point has perhaps been more devastating than the earlier reliance on diesel power.

Given the disagreements at Cop27 recently, plus world events which no one really could foretell, and the Asian Equation - it is going to be a really brave leadership team to set any strategy in stone, from an automotive perspective, from this point henceforth.

Jaguar’s error has been the EV and SUV focus. Why create and develop products that are in direct competition with sister group LR?

[craigjm]

RingSpanner said:

I am surprised it has taken so long for his “Reimagine” program to be recognised for the failure that it is…..

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-corpor...

Edited by RingSpanner on Tuesday 22 November 07:51

How do you know it’s a failure? Are you on the board and know what the next step is or are you assuming a resignation means a failure? If so then that’s a rather large assumption to make. People leave jobs for lots of reasons…. Were you declared a failure last time you resigned from a job?

[RingSpanner]

craigjm said:

How do you know it’s a failure? Are you on the board and know what the next step is or are you assuming a resignation means a failure? If so then that’s a rather large assumption to make. People leave jobs for lots of reasons…. Were you declared a failure last time you resigned from a job?

I’ll not be drawn to answering or debating the personal references you make, for obvious reasons.

If you’ve missed it and with due respect, the Reimagine project is morphing Jaguar into a one trick pony. Someone has spotted that.

I sincerely hope they can come back alive and kicking (if you’re misreading the intent of my posts) but from where I’m standing (and a lot of others, too…) there’s a leadership team that, so far, have only got spades to dig their hole deeper and darker.

[craigjm]

RingSpanner said:

craigjm said:

How do you know it’s a failure? Are you on the board and know what the next step is or are you assuming a resignation means a failure? If so then that’s a rather large assumption to make. People leave jobs for lots of reasons…. Were you declared a failure last time you resigned from a job?

I’ll not be drawn to answering or debating the personal references you make, for obvious reasons.

If you’ve missed it and with due respect, the Reimagine project is morphing Jaguar into a one trick pony. Someone has spotted that.

I sincerely hope they can come back alive and kicking (if you’re misreading the intent of my posts) but from where I’m standing (and a lot of others, too…) there’s a leadership team that, so far, have only got spades to dig their hole deeper and darker.

Apologies it was not meant to be a direct dig at you. My point is a resignation doesn’t mean a failure or a change of direction .

[a8hex]

RingSpanner said:

Jaguar’s error has been the EV and SUV focus. Why create and develop products that are in direct competition with sister group LR?

If they could come up with a really usable Electric XJ then I'd have thought that would be the ultimate expression of the what they set out to achieve all those years ago. An XJ should effortlessly waft you from A to B. They had some great engines over the years but the engines job has been to disappear into the background and not make it presence felt other than through the steady pressure at your back as you blast down the next straight.
An electric motor should be ideal for that job.

[reddiesel]

craigjm said:

How do you know it’s a failure? Are you on the board and know what the next step is or are you assuming a resignation means a failure? If so then that’s a rather large assumption to make. People leave jobs for lots of reasons…. Were you declared a failure last time you resigned from a job?

Of course its been a failure Craig and your Colleagues at the JDC must surely be of similar opinion ? You talk about our friend not knowing the next step . I fear we may end up a badge engineered Land Rover similar to what Daimler once became within Jaguar.

[craigjm]

reddiesel said:

craigjm said:

How do you know it’s a failure? Are you on the board and know what the next step is or are you assuming a resignation means a failure? If so then that’s a rather large assumption to make. People leave jobs for lots of reasons…. Were you declared a failure last time you resigned from a job?

Of course its been a failure Craig and your Colleagues at the JDC must surely be of similar opinion ? You talk about our friend not knowing the next step . I fear we may end up a badge engineered Land Rover similar to what Daimler once became within Jaguar.

We don’t really know do we? As we haven’t seen anything new yet, and that’s no surprise based on development cycles, how can we say? If it does end up badge engineered LR then yes that would be a failure but there isn’t any evidence of that yet. I think Jaguar would more than likely be closed than that happen. I’m relation to the JDC, because of the age of most members and their focus in time car wise anything they do will be seen as a failure by many of them and anything they have done since the 2000s is generally seen as a failure, or earlier in some cases. Whether this is a failure in reality will depend on two things in my view. Do we get the first of the electric cars in 2025 with the others on the drawing board for launch by 2028 because that will show us if the strategy has been fulfilled and secondly who they bring in to replace him. If they stick with the chief bean counter then I think failure. It’s a tough time but we don’t know all the facts we just know the media snippets. For all we know the “move back to France for personal reasons around his wife” message could be “my wife is about to kick it and I want to spend time with her” and if that’s true then it’s definitely not a failure. It’s hard to judge on the scant facts we know at this point but time will tell

[Julian Scott]

RingSpanner said:

Jaguar’s error has been the EV and SUV focus. Why create and develop products that are in direct competition with sister group LR?

Because if you can offer something different (which they did), you have 2 horses on the race when someone looks at a new car?

...plus EV and SUV are the two highest growth markets?

[cardigankid]

reddiesel said:

It will be little surprise that I agree with you on all counts Simpo . For me its a Brand that has completely lost its way and I can see the comparisons with Aston as I have been recently hanging around the Works at Newport Pagnell . DBS apart the Cars are hard to love .

I love my DB11. A great drive, performance, fantastic balance, GT comfort, wonderful looks (I know that is in the eye of the beholder, but that's what I think) without being as 'in your face' as the DBS, which I don't criticise.

[cardigankid]

a8hex said:

RingSpanner said:

Jaguar’s error has been the EV and SUV focus. Why create and develop products that are in direct competition with sister group LR?

If they could come up with a really usable Electric XJ then I'd have thought that would be the ultimate expression of the what they set out to achieve all those years ago. An XJ should effortlessly waft you from A to B. They had some great engines over the years but the engines job has been to disappear into the background and not make it presence felt other than through the steady pressure at your back as you blast down the next straight.
An electric motor should be ideal for that job.

I would only point out that is a matter of opinion, not one of fact. Yes, XJ's have a waft factor. I have had two XJR's, they were wonderful. But I also remember maxing out a manual O/D 4.2 litre XJ6 on the autobahn when it was the latest thing, and I can assure you, the engine did not disappear into the background, nor would I have wished it to. If Jaguar can develop an electric vehicle which has the range, usability and driving pleasure that I would expect in a Jaguar, good, but it is not IMHO there yet by quite a margin.

The problem is the age old one, of believing that politicians can either predict or create the future, and that they have your back if you do what they ask and things don't pan out as expected. They bet the farm on diesel, and lost. They have bet the farm on electric. They are running out of farms.

The whole electric direction is in the process of colliding with reality, and we will see if it survives.

[Simpo Two]

cardigankid said:

The whole electric direction is in the process of colliding with reality, and we will see if it survives.

Agreed. Already they're talking about power cuts because the wind isn't blowing, and that's before everyone is charging up EVs. And however you generate electricity, its price is determined by markets beyond our control.

[craigjm]

Simpo Two said:

however you generate electricity, its price is determined by markets beyond our control.

How is that different to oil?

[reddiesel]

cardigankid said:

I love my DB11. A great drive, performance, fantastic balance, GT comfort, wonderful looks (I know that is in the eye of the beholder, but that's what I think) without being as 'in your face' as the DBS, which I don't criticise.

Is it " in your face " ? I dont know . Its all in the eye of the beholder as you say but I went up there wanting to buy , what British man doesn't and I was really disappointed .

[Simpo Two]

craigjm said:

Simpo Two said:

however you generate electricity, its price is determined by markets beyond our control.

How is that different to oil?

It's not, but 'renewables' are hailed as the great Utopia when they're not. They have problems too, but they're never mentioned. It's all wow and fab and eco.

[craigjm]

Simpo Two said:

craigjm said:

Simpo Two said:

however you generate electricity, its price is determined by markets beyond our control.

How is that different to oil?

It's not, but 'renewables' are hailed as the great Utopia when they're not. They have problems too, but they're never mentioned. It's all wow and fab and eco.

Can’t blame the car companies though they are just reacting to government legislation. It’s currently a st time to be a car maker. You would have to all be going electric with the next model cycles or die so if or when it turns out to be a white elephant they may all end up holding the baby.