Thierry Bollore Departs Jaguar
Discussion
I hope what we see is the first new car launched in 2025 and then the other two by 2028 so there is a full new range when the I pace is no longer sold. I hope they are modern, backed by excellent engineering and really viable in their price point. I then hope that Jaguar is sold off to someone who will treat it well, doesn’t have to be a traditional car manufacturer and that the factory it is given as part of the deal is in the UK.
I’m sure we probably won’t see that and we will probably see the gradual closure of the brand but hey I’m trying to be positive
I’m sure we probably won’t see that and we will probably see the gradual closure of the brand but hey I’m trying to be positive
In the space of three or four months there’s been an almost complete volte-face (pun intended) in the industry. THB can’t have retained the trust of JLRs owners and investors alike.
Whatever statements JLR made in its “misconceptions” PowerPoint presentations, or it’s “all-electric hype by 2025” - it’s been a corporate communications disaster; so it’s easy to believe there’s been chaos behind the steely facade of JLRs strategic management. Perhaps, one too many basking in previous glories?
Corporate succession planning (even by THB himself) has appeared weak or non-existent.
It’s the proverbial car crash and pantomime.
I’ll also remark that dealers offering new JLR products with a five-figure discount hardly sends the right signals. Coupled to production lines which are obviously cranking over (efficiently?) and then stacking unsold product for months on end, whilst offering substantial discounts is a bizarre way of conducting business. Who’s kidding who, here? Massaged numbers on a balance sheet might look convincing to prospective investors but they don’t wash with the general buying public, and they’re not working for JLR by the sound of it all. The car I might have bought at a ten thousand pound discount is now probably sitting on a dusty airfield somewhere in the Midlands, awaiting the year-end to be registered by the corporate body - it’s comedy gold.
Is it any surprise that governments are cagey about offering grant support to the industry?
As much as I wish them well, they’re heading into oblivion with their present trajectory. I genuinely feel for the workforce but can’t help but think there’s going to be a cataclysmic and seismic series of events in the not too distant future at JLR.
Whatever statements JLR made in its “misconceptions” PowerPoint presentations, or it’s “all-electric hype by 2025” - it’s been a corporate communications disaster; so it’s easy to believe there’s been chaos behind the steely facade of JLRs strategic management. Perhaps, one too many basking in previous glories?
Corporate succession planning (even by THB himself) has appeared weak or non-existent.
It’s the proverbial car crash and pantomime.
I’ll also remark that dealers offering new JLR products with a five-figure discount hardly sends the right signals. Coupled to production lines which are obviously cranking over (efficiently?) and then stacking unsold product for months on end, whilst offering substantial discounts is a bizarre way of conducting business. Who’s kidding who, here? Massaged numbers on a balance sheet might look convincing to prospective investors but they don’t wash with the general buying public, and they’re not working for JLR by the sound of it all. The car I might have bought at a ten thousand pound discount is now probably sitting on a dusty airfield somewhere in the Midlands, awaiting the year-end to be registered by the corporate body - it’s comedy gold.
Is it any surprise that governments are cagey about offering grant support to the industry?
As much as I wish them well, they’re heading into oblivion with their present trajectory. I genuinely feel for the workforce but can’t help but think there’s going to be a cataclysmic and seismic series of events in the not too distant future at JLR.
What car can you get a five figure discount on? Where are these stacks of unsold cars? Last time I checked they had an order backlog of over 100000 cars across both brands and were prioritising building Range Rover because of its huge profit margin to use the limited chips it can get effectively. JLR has not, as far as I know, built any cars without a clear customer (which may be dealer display) for well over 10 years.
RingSpanner said:
craigjm said:
What car can you get a five figure discount on? Where are these stacks of unsold cars?
If you ever get in to the showrooms and buy anything from them, you'd be kept in the loop.On the second question - I think you already know the answer.
craigjm said:
I don’t know that answer to either question so please enlighten the thread
I'm more interested in why you've homed-in on that element of my post?Rather than me "enlightening" you with facts that are already common knowledge across many threads in the Jaguar section - many commented on by you - you feel the need to contradict or take to task whatever I post?
I think you will find we both see the same wrongs going on in the company.
RingSpanner said:
craigjm said:
I don’t know that answer to either question so please enlighten the thread
I'm more interested in why you've homed-in on that element of my post?Rather than me "enlightening" you with facts that are already common knowledge across many threads in the Jaguar section - many commented on by you - you feel the need to contradict or take to task whatever I post?
I think you will find we both see the same wrongs going on in the company.
I sincerely hope neither are true as it shows a company in worst straits than expected
The discounts also won’t be around for long as JLR are moving away from the dealer model this year and forcing their distributors over to an agency model similar to Mercedes. This means you buy the car direct from JLR and the dealer is just paid an agent fee to prepare and deliver it. Idea being there will be no discounts. Will it work? Who knows???
I think there are a number of us here hoping for a phoenix rising from the ashes moment but I think we are all preparing for the worst unfortunately
RingSpanner said:
If you ever get in to the showrooms and buy anything from them, you'd be kept in the loop.
On the second question - I think you already know the answer.
I have to say that like yourself I have marvelled at some of these discounts . I certainly saw recently a £5k reduction on a new F Type and pointed it out to a friend of mineOn the second question - I think you already know the answer.
craigjm said:
I’m not disagreeing with you in saying that it’s categorically not true but my regular contact with a few dealers tell me you can get 10% max off an F-type, and any of the pace cars of which none would be a 5 figure discount and next to nothing off an XE or XF as they haven’t built a single one of either since the pandemic. JLR do not build cars “for stock” and have not done so since Ralf Speth was in charge. So I am asking where have you seen discounts higher than I am aware of and where has it been said they are now building for stock and stockpiling?
I sincerely hope neither are true as it shows a company in worst straits than expected
The discounts also won’t be around for long as JLR are moving away from the dealer model this year and forcing their distributors over to an agency model similar to Mercedes. This means you buy the car direct from JLR and the dealer is just paid an agent fee to prepare and deliver it. Idea being there will be no discounts. Will it work? Who knows???
I think there are a number of us here hoping for a phoenix rising from the ashes moment but I think we are all preparing for the worst unfortunately
Well this certainly puts a recent change of hands into perspective. My local dealer changed from a family owned company with a 60+ year history of being a main dealer to selling up to Marshall group. Given it was always regarded as the Crown jewel in the family group it puzzled me why they'd sold. Now I get it. I sincerely hope neither are true as it shows a company in worst straits than expected
The discounts also won’t be around for long as JLR are moving away from the dealer model this year and forcing their distributors over to an agency model similar to Mercedes. This means you buy the car direct from JLR and the dealer is just paid an agent fee to prepare and deliver it. Idea being there will be no discounts. Will it work? Who knows???
I think there are a number of us here hoping for a phoenix rising from the ashes moment but I think we are all preparing for the worst unfortunately
craigjm said:
I’m not disagreeing with you in saying that it’s categorically not true but my regular contact with a few dealers tell me you can get 10% max off an F-type, and any of the pace cars of which none would be a 5 figure discount and next to nothing off an XE or XF as they haven’t built a single one of either since the pandemic. JLR do not build cars “for stock” and have not done so since Ralf Speth was in charge. So I am asking where have you seen discounts higher than I am aware of and where has it been said they are now building for stock and stockpiling?
I sincerely hope neither are true as it shows a company in worst straits than expected
The discounts also won’t be around for long as JLR are moving away from the dealer model this year and forcing their distributors over to an agency model similar to Mercedes. This means you buy the car direct from JLR and the dealer is just paid an agent fee to prepare and deliver it. Idea being there will be no discounts. Will it work? Who knows???
I think there are a number of us here hoping for a phoenix rising from the ashes moment but I think we are all preparing for the worst unfortunately
I suspect we may even see the Tesla Model where you can purchase a Jaguar in Brent Cross Shopping Centre . I sincerely hope neither are true as it shows a company in worst straits than expected
The discounts also won’t be around for long as JLR are moving away from the dealer model this year and forcing their distributors over to an agency model similar to Mercedes. This means you buy the car direct from JLR and the dealer is just paid an agent fee to prepare and deliver it. Idea being there will be no discounts. Will it work? Who knows???
I think there are a number of us here hoping for a phoenix rising from the ashes moment but I think we are all preparing for the worst unfortunately
reddiesel said:
I have to say that like yourself I have marvelled at some of these discounts . I certainly saw recently a £5k reduction on a new F Type and pointed it out to a friend of mine
There was a recent direct mail pitch offering five figure discounts on the proviso finance was taken at 9%. I binned it and cannot recall whether that 9 figure applied to PCP or HP or both. I thought it such a pity; the emphasis on selling a finance product seemed greater than selling the vehicle. What a mess the game is in.
RingSpanner said:
There was a recent direct mail pitch offering five figure discounts on the proviso finance was taken at 9%. I binned it and cannot recall whether that 9 figure applied to PCP or HP or both.
I thought it such a pity; the emphasis on selling a finance product seemed greater than selling the vehicle. What a mess the game is in.
These JLR Dealerships owe their very existence to the Leasing Agreement , almost 85% of all new Cars I read somewhere are Leased . For me a Jaguar was always an aspirational Product , it genuinely saddens me to see what the Brand has become . I spend a lot of time appraising stock on Jaguar Forecourts , I even invested in a Paint Thickness Gauge such is the extent of my fetish . I have to tell you that the state of some of the retail stock is shocking . They inevitably come off Lease and are then subject to the poorest of cosmetic work before being stuck on the Forecourt . Marshalls of Cambridge have some East Europeans in a building to the left of the Showroom indulging in all sorts of skullduggery . I have actually stood and watched this take place . Then of course we have Lessors who damage the cars and mindful of the penalties involved repair the cars at their own expense without declaring it . I know a Mileage Correction Bloke in Luton who makes a good living adjusting the mileage on E Class Mercedes and Skoda Octavias . Our inevitably Asian Taxi Drivers Lease them for their own Personal Use with the inevitable mileage restrictions , they then stick Taxi Plates on them , run them to the moon and back before having the mileage corrected by my acquaintance . The last time I visited he had four in a row awaiting his attention with the Mullahs standing alongside . Its absolute curtains for this Country now , the Police and various Agencies have completely lost control . Meanwhile go through a Camera at 37mph in a 30mph limit and if you are honest and stupid enough to hold your hands up they will persecute you for the next five years while it remains on your license .I thought it such a pity; the emphasis on selling a finance product seemed greater than selling the vehicle. What a mess the game is in.
RingSpanner said:
There was a recent direct mail pitch offering five figure discounts on the proviso finance was taken at 9%. I binned it and cannot recall whether that 9 figure applied to PCP or HP or both.
I thought it such a pity; the emphasis on selling a finance product seemed greater than selling the vehicle. What a mess the game is in.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202211031330823?journey=deals&year-to=2023&sort=price-asc&radius=1500&make=Jaguar&postcode=mk147py&body-type=Convertible&advertising-location=at_cars&model=XKR&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&include-delivery-option=on&maximum-mileage=90000&page=1I thought it such a pity; the emphasis on selling a finance product seemed greater than selling the vehicle. What a mess the game is in.
Hendy Jaguar Christchurch
This was the one I originally saw that was heavily reduced , I cant believe Craig was unaware of this discounting ? If Jaguar are only building cars to order what does this discounting mean , a cancelled order ? I find that hard to believe .
Edited by reddiesel on Thursday 9th March 19:32
reddiesel said:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new...
Hendy Jaguar Christchurch
This was the one I originally saw that was heavily reduced , I cant believe Craig was unaware of this discounting ? If Jaguar are only building cars to order what does this discounting mean , a cancelled order ? I find that hard to believe .
I wasn’t questioning the existence of discounts. As I said you can get 10% off an F-type and on an 80k car that’s 8k discount. Last time I counted on my fingers that is a four figure discount. I was questioning the alleged FIVE figure discounts. Can anyone show where you can get over 10k off an F-type or any other new Jaguar? I haven’t seen anything like that. Hendy Jaguar Christchurch
This was the one I originally saw that was heavily reduced , I cant believe Craig was unaware of this discounting ? If Jaguar are only building cars to order what does this discounting mean , a cancelled order ? I find that hard to believe .
Edited by reddiesel on Thursday 9th March 19:32
craigjm said:
I wasn’t questioning the existence of discounts. As I said you can get 10% off an F-type and on an 80k car that’s 8k discount. Last time I counted on my fingers that is a four figure discount. I was questioning the alleged FIVE figure discounts. Can anyone show where you can get over 10k off an F-type or any other new Jaguar? I haven’t seen anything like that.
I wasnt seeking to grind any axe Craig and I hope your are keeping well ? I am convinced the £10k discount will be out there somewhere because sales on any new Jaguar is virtually glacial . We are looking at a supposed 15% of the Marketplace actually sticking their hand in their own pocket to fund a New Car purchase and when you factor the age of these Private Purchasers into the equation I suspect its Companies like Kia that trouser most of this money .There are other views out there of course but seeing how strapped for cash many young couples are nowadays I wouldn't have thought I was far wrong .
reddiesel said:
craigjm said:
I wasn’t questioning the existence of discounts. As I said you can get 10% off an F-type and on an 80k car that’s 8k discount. Last time I counted on my fingers that is a four figure discount. I was questioning the alleged FIVE figure discounts. Can anyone show where you can get over 10k off an F-type or any other new Jaguar? I haven’t seen anything like that.
I wasnt seeking to grind any axe Craig and I hope your are keeping well ? I am convinced the £10k discount will be out there somewhere because sales on any new Jaguar is virtually glacial . We are looking at a supposed 15% of the Marketplace actually sticking their hand in their own pocket to fund a New Car purchase and when you factor the age of these Private Purchasers into the equation I suspect its Companies like Kia that trouser most of this money .There are other views out there of course but seeing how strapped for cash many young couples are nowadays I wouldn't have thought I was far wrong .
don’t know why, it’s not intended. Will be interesting to see how the rise in interest rates affects car leases in terms of volume. I think the days of young people getting a premium car as their first or second car on a lease will be at an end for a while and that must also impact higher up the food chain. JLR have never been that good with finance rates compared to the competition because of their volume I guess. I wonder how many people do buy a car outright cash these days. A friend of mine recently bought a Toyota Aygo for his daughter and could have paid cash but took the finance to get the 10% contribution and then paid it off after the minimum term. I guess some people do that but very few.
Just been over to the Jaguar site. That alone is a horror these days with that awful marketing they are doing. It got me thinking though. As they haven’t built an XE or XF since the pandemic (largely due to the fact that the wholesale profit margin is 4%) I was wondering what was the cheapest Jaguar you could actually buy today in terms of list price. So it’s the E pace starting at 43k which is over the governments 40k threshold for the extra tax for a start but worse than that they don’t build it so they only get a royalty for each one from Magnyr. The cheapest car they actually build then is the basic F Pace at 48k.
reddiesel said:
Look at the offside panel gap between wing, bonnet and bumper 
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