F-Types - Astonishing Value!

F-Types - Astonishing Value!

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Discussion

Pistom

4,916 posts

158 months

Monday 13th February 2023
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reddiesel said:
I dont thing anyone has said they have done all of their depreciation ? What I said was at £30k , its already done its biggest chunk and if the Buyer is sensible with the Model he buys the History and Mileage it could still be a £20k to £25k car come exit time . I use the current X150 prices as a yardstick and I believe its difficult to see a £30k outlay in an F Type halving in price over the short to medium term and I suspect many would agree with that ?
Yes - apologies for misinterpreting and then misrepresenting what you actually said and yes, reading your post, I agree.

Stick Legs

4,825 posts

164 months

Monday 13th February 2023
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There is always the ‘you’ll pay for it one way or another’ school of thought as well.

If you bought a V8V and and F-Type & ran both for 10 years the depreciation of the F-Type may not exceed the extra costs of running the Aston Martin.

So as always, pays your money takes your choice.

reddiesel

1,902 posts

46 months

Monday 13th February 2023
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Pistom said:
Yes - apologies for misinterpreting and then misrepresenting what you actually said and yes, reading your post, I agree.
Absolutely no apologies necessary , its great to hear what you think

Johnniem

2,660 posts

222 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
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Lurker here, wondering what to do next!

Long story short - I have always been a Jag man since my youth (7 of Dad's cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper, so it's in the blood). Went through three XJ6's before having a ride in a Chimaera. That was bought pretty soon thereafter and lasted 7 years (car of the heart). Acquired a Porsche Cayman 3.4S 987.1, then 'upgraded' to the 987.2 with PDK and sports package (car of the head). To be honest it was my perfect car and I should never have sold it. Biiiiig mistake! Chopped it in for an E400 convertible Merc (my next big mistake) which I was bored with after about three months. I'm now parked in a 987.1 Boxster and need to move on. It's ok but a bit meh.

My question is, F Type (probably the V6S - sorry!) or back to the 987.2 Cayman? I love the F Type but just wonder if the residuals (compared to the 'rare as hen's teeth' Cayman that I'm after) are not so great?

Anyone else had this conundrum and opted, with good reasons, for one or the other?

TIA

akirk

5,376 posts

113 months

Tuesday 7th March 2023
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Johnniem said:
Lurker here, wondering what to do next!

Long story short - I have always been a Jag man since my youth (7 of Dad's cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper, so it's in the blood). Went through three XJ6's before having a ride in a Chimaera. That was bought pretty soon thereafter and lasted 7 years (car of the heart). Acquired a Porsche Cayman 3.4S 987.1, then 'upgraded' to the 987.2 with PDK and sports package (car of the head). To be honest it was my perfect car and I should never have sold it. Biiiiig mistake! Chopped it in for an E400 convertible Merc (my next big mistake) which I was bored with after about three months. I'm now parked in a 987.1 Boxster and need to move on. It's ok but a bit meh.

My question is, F Type (probably the V6S - sorry!) or back to the 987.2 Cayman? I love the F Type but just wonder if the residuals (compared to the 'rare as hen's teeth' Cayman that I'm after) are not so great?

Anyone else had this conundrum and opted, with good reasons, for one or the other?

TIA
If you are planning on buying based on residuals then you are buying on heard not heart, so buy the Cayman it will work better - if buying on heart, buy the f-type which is a better car for the emotional response. (have driven both - own an f-type)

and who knows where f-type residuals will go if this is the last model year, they might slow down / or even increase... who knows!

reddiesel

1,902 posts

46 months

Wednesday 8th March 2023
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Johnniem said:
Lurker here, wondering what to do next!

Long story short - I have always been a Jag man since my youth (7 of Dad's cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper, so it's in the blood). Went through three XJ6's before having a ride in a Chimaera. That was bought pretty soon thereafter and lasted 7 years (car of the heart). Acquired a Porsche Cayman 3.4S 987.1, then 'upgraded' to the 987.2 with PDK and sports package (car of the head). To be honest it was my perfect car and I should never have sold it. Biiiiig mistake! Chopped it in for an E400 convertible Merc (my next big mistake) which I was bored with after about three months. I'm now parked in a 987.1 Boxster and need to move on. It's ok but a bit meh.

My question is, F Type (probably the V6S - sorry!) or back to the 987.2 Cayman? I love the F Type but just wonder if the residuals (compared to the 'rare as hen's teeth' Cayman that I'm after) are not so great?

Anyone else had this conundrum and opted, with good reasons, for one or the other?

TIA
I think its pretty obvious to everyone that Porsche residuals are better than Jaguars so I am wondering why you even have to ask that question . I just got rid of a 911 GTS and without looking I have no idea of the " rare " Cayman you speak about nor its value but if its a rare Model then that in itself will mean it will hold onto a greater proportion of its value than any V6 F type .
The best option for those seeking minimum depreciation in an F type would be the SVR but it will be a greater outlay than the V6 .
I suspect your heart lays in owning a Porsche so thats what I would be buying .

reddiesel

1,902 posts

46 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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Johnniem said:
Lurker here, wondering what to do next!

Long story short - I have always been a Jag man since my youth (7 of Dad's cars since I was knee high to a grasshopper, so it's in the blood). Went through three XJ6's before having a ride in a Chimaera. That was bought pretty soon thereafter and lasted 7 years (car of the heart). Acquired a Porsche Cayman 3.4S 987.1, then 'upgraded' to the 987.2 with PDK and sports package (car of the head). To be honest it was my perfect car and I should never have sold it. Biiiiig mistake! Chopped it in for an E400 convertible Merc (my next big mistake) which I was bored with after about three months. I'm now parked in a 987.1 Boxster and need to move on. It's ok but a bit meh.

My question is, F Type (probably the V6S - sorry!) or back to the 987.2 Cayman? I love the F Type but just wonder if the residuals (compared to the 'rare as hen's teeth' Cayman that I'm after) are not so great?

Anyone else had this conundrum and opted, with good reasons, for one or the other?

TIA
https://www.stratstone.com/search/details/porsche/718/manual-petrol-silver-coupe-bd22xgl/?infinitydisplay=ict2~net~gaw~cmp~GDN+[USED]+Group+-+Remarketing~ag~14DMBG~ar~610672458466~kw~www.pistonheads.com~mt~c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkIi69_nQ_QIV4wcGAB3l4wnBEAEYASACEgJNLPD_BwE

I have been salivating at this for a day or two John , I know nothing about the Model in comparison to the 911 GTS I owned but I wouldn't imagine there would be much in it ?

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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What’s rare as hens teeth about the Cayman?

To be fair they are very different cars. I’ve owned two caymans a 987 and a 981 and driven a fair few F-types over the years

In my probably unpopular opinion the v6s is the sweet spot of the F-type range. Would I buy one over a cayman though? No I wouldn’t. It’s a bigger car more 911 size but is actually in reality less practical than the Cayman in terms of storage etc. I prefer the drive of a mid engine and if you want an auto then I think the pdk is a better box for a sports car. I’ll get my coat and run…. hehe


reddiesel

1,902 posts

46 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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For me there is only one sweet spot in the F Type range and its the SVR . 3am on the M6 enroute for Glasgow and touching north of 170mph is for me close to heaven . Get farther North into Cumbria and the Scottish Borders where fast curves become more of a feature then suddenly I become a Porsche
convert for there is little that will turn into a curve better than a 911. The difference is the slight disengagement with the F type steering owing to being sat too high within the car . The 911 by comparison means you are sat low down atop the chassis with everything falling away from you like a waterfall . It simply inspires greater confidence . I totally agree with you Craig and it comes down to one factor for Jaguar and one factor only . The F Type isnt a proper Sportscar .

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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reddiesel said:
For me there is only one sweet spot in the F Type range and its the SVR . 3am on the M6 enroute for Glasgow and touching north of 170mph is for me close to heaven . Get farther North into Cumbria and the Scottish Borders where fast curves become more of a feature then suddenly I become a Porsche
convert for there is little that will turn into a curve better than a 911. The difference is the slight disengagement with the F type steering owing to being sat too high within the car . The 911 by comparison means you are sat low down atop the chassis with everything falling away from you like a waterfall . It simply inspires greater confidence . I totally agree with you Craig and it comes down to one factor for Jaguar and one factor only . The F Type isnt a proper Sportscar .
haha yeah but the vast majority of people wouldnt be able to afford to go anywhere near the SVR hehe so I guess I should rephrase my sentence and say "the sweet spot of the standard range". I also feel that im sat too high whenever I am in an F-type and there is a feeling of bulk around me whereas the Caymans feel light and you sit much lower down.

Interesting you say the F-type isnt a proper sportscar reddiesel. I have always thought that. For me it kind of misses the sports car boat and the GT boat as its neither light or nimble enough for the former and not practical enough for the latter.

8bit

4,846 posts

154 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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craigjm said:
haha yeah but the vast majority of people wouldnt be able to afford to go anywhere near the SVR hehe so I guess I should rephrase my sentence and say "the sweet spot of the standard range". I also feel that im sat too high whenever I am in an F-type and there is a feeling of bulk around me whereas the Caymans feel light and you sit much lower down.

Interesting you say the F-type isnt a proper sportscar reddiesel. I have always thought that. For me it kind of misses the sports car boat and the GT boat as its neither light or nimble enough for the former and not practical enough for the latter.
I've said this before but the F-Type is not the best handling car Jaguar make; that would be the XE. I've had a few of those as courtesy cars when my own XKRs have been in for work, they really do come to life in the twisties. Such a shame they didn't do a second-generation F-Type based on a shortened XE platform, that would have been a much more dynamic and exciting B-road weapon and a more credible alternative to a Porsche.

As it stands it's as you say, essentially a further compromised XK. That's not necessarily a bad thing but go into it with eyes open, it started out life as a GT car, not a sports car.

akirk

5,376 posts

113 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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craigjm said:
reddiesel said:
For me there is only one sweet spot in the F Type range and its the SVR . 3am on the M6 enroute for Glasgow and touching north of 170mph is for me close to heaven . Get farther North into Cumbria and the Scottish Borders where fast curves become more of a feature then suddenly I become a Porsche
convert for there is little that will turn into a curve better than a 911. The difference is the slight disengagement with the F type steering owing to being sat too high within the car . The 911 by comparison means you are sat low down atop the chassis with everything falling away from you like a waterfall . It simply inspires greater confidence . I totally agree with you Craig and it comes down to one factor for Jaguar and one factor only . The F Type isnt a proper Sportscar .
haha yeah but the vast majority of people wouldnt be able to afford to go anywhere near the SVR hehe so I guess I should rephrase my sentence and say "the sweet spot of the standard range". I also feel that im sat too high whenever I am in an F-type and there is a feeling of bulk around me whereas the Caymans feel light and you sit much lower down.

Interesting you say the F-type isnt a proper sportscar reddiesel. I have always thought that. For me it kind of misses the sports car boat and the GT boat as its neither light or nimble enough for the former and not practical enough for the latter.
It is worth thinking though about who buys them - That they sit between a GT and a sports car makes it the perfect car for a lot of people. However good an XK was (or the XJS beforehand), they were a foot longer and just felt bulkier on country roads - the f-type shrinks around you much more. So the f-type is fun on country roads and also works well as a tireless long distance GT...

I have driven lots of porsches and jaguars, and the Cayman / 911 models are good clever cars, but I would choose my f-type every day over them (and did on purchase) - the porsches are lovely, but they are very Germanic bland - whereas the f-type comes together so much better - the design, the feel, the cabin atmosphere etc. - it is also one of the prettiest cars ever made!

So, we can discuss concepts online, but in real life other things probably play a higher factor in purchasing choices - porsche is probably as often bought on the badge as on its handling...

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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See that’s the thing I don’t feel like the F-type does shrink around you at all. You feel the bulk of the design and the heft of the weight always. Shrinking around you was always the party piece of the aluminium XJ’s and for me when you have experienced that the F-type doesn’t feel like it shrinks at all. Only my opinion of course

reddiesel

1,902 posts

46 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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akirk said:
It is worth thinking though about who buys them - That they sit between a GT and a sports car makes it the perfect car for a lot of people. However good an XK was (or the XJS beforehand), they were a foot longer and just felt bulkier on country roads - the f-type shrinks around you much more. So the f-type is fun on country roads and also works well as a tireless long distance GT...

I have driven lots of porsches and jaguars, and the Cayman / 911 models are good clever cars, but I would choose my f-type every day over them (and did on purchase) - the porsches are lovely, but they are very Germanic bland - whereas the f-type comes together so much better - the design, the feel, the cabin atmosphere etc. - it is also one of the prettiest cars ever made!

So, we can discuss concepts online, but in real life other things probably play a higher factor in purchasing choices - porsche is probably as often bought on the badge as on its handling...
Opinions are opinions and the beauty of Forums such as this is that opposite ones make the best reading . You are completely correct about who buys them , the marketplace for a proper drivers tool such as a Caterham is a much smaller than the one for a " soft sports car " like the F type or the BMW Z Series . I dont think in reality after having owned several versions of both Models that the XK at least in NA form is ever a worthwhile comparison for an F Type as the latter falls between two stools whilst the XK was a proper GT so yes , definitely bulkier .
Its your next paragraph that I really struggle with . The two F types I owned a V8 R and the SVR were both well specced , the latter in fact had every Option available . I found the Jaguar Infotainment much better than the 911 GTS and apart from the apology for a centre console hewn from cheap plastic everything and more was there . I have to tell you however that both the fit and the quality of the materials used were a notch beneath what I found in the GTS . Typically Germanic certainly but I dont know what you mean by bland ?
As regards looks the F type certainly was far from ugly , the first revamp in my opinion being the prettiest .In closing I think you either get the Porsche thing or you dont . Its no accident that Aston Martin stripped one down to analyse when they created the new Vantage . It remains the Benchmark for what a sports car should be and I stand by my honestly held opinion and experience that when it comes to handling on or near the limit there is absolutely no comparison between an F type and a 911and I believe most motoring journalists in the world would probably agree with that assertion .

akirk

5,376 posts

113 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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reddiesel said:
Typically Germanic certainly but I dont know what you mean by bland ?
Difficult to explain - but there is something in terms of design / feel / cockpit / ambience which british manufacturers seem to get so much better than german ones - whether it is bentley / jag / range rover - there is (for want of a better word) a britishness that no German car manufacturer has ever emulated - it isn't about quality per se - more about country house ambience than the clinical perfection of a porsche... like so many things, a personal preference - understated / elegant / etc.

reddiesel said:
In closing I think you either get the Porsche thing or you dont . Its no accident that Aston Martin stripped one down to analyse when they created the new Vantage . It remains the Benchmark for what a sports car should be and I stand by my honestly held opinion and experience that when it comes to handling on or near the limit there is absolutely no comparison between an F type and a 911and I believe most motoring journalists in the world would probably agree with that assertion .
I know that on paper this is an argument which can go into incredible analysis and detail - but in reality it is (I think!) an irrelevant argument...

with a bad / average / okay driver - neither car will be used to its ability - car will be better than the driver
with a good / excellent driver - both cars / ranges will be superb to drive - the combination of driver and car will be better than our roads can handle

so while a 911 might technically be better the difference is probably irrelevant day to day...

it is the same argument as saying that car a has 1000 BHP and 0-60 in 1 second, while car b has only 900 BHP and 0-60 in 2 seconds - totally irrelevant, both are way more powerful than needed for our roads...

So the difference does come down to personal preferences, for me the looks / feel / badge (less snobby / money) are all better for the Jag.

reddiesel

1,902 posts

46 months

Friday 10th March 2023
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Fair comment .

TheCoot

38 posts

147 months

Saturday 11th March 2023
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akirk said:
I know that on paper this is an argument which can go into incredible analysis and detail - but in reality it is (I think!) an irrelevant argument...

with a bad / average / okay driver - neither car will be used to its ability - car will be better than the driver
with a good / excellent driver - both cars / ranges will be superb to drive - the combination of driver and car will be better than our roads can handle

so while a 911 might technically be better the difference is probably irrelevant day to day...

it is the same argument as saying that car a has 1000 BHP and 0-60 in 1 second, while car b has only 900 BHP and 0-60 in 2 seconds - totally irrelevant, both are way more powerful than needed for our roads...

So the difference does come down to personal preferences, for me the looks / feel / badge (less snobby / money) are all better for the Jag.
I've got to agree with AKirk here, however, as usual, RedDiesel always talks much sense and with balance and experience. To throw my hat in the ring, I've owned both (Previously an FType V6S, my last toy being a Porsche 718 Spyder (GT4 without the roof) and I now have an FType R 575 75 on order).

I bought my first FType in 2017 new and sold it in 2019. I bought my 718 Spyder new in 2019 and sold it in 2022. The 718 Spyder was all the sports car anyone will ever need and in keeping with what Red says, Porsches attack bends like nothing else. However, I sold my Spyder for one reason alone - I didn't look back at it when I walked away.....where as the FType.....I always looked back. The Spyder was as AKirk says....very Germanic. It did everything you expected such a car to do, no fuss, no pantomine. But, that was the thing I grew bored of. There was no automotive theatre (as Charles Morgan used to call it). Whereas that is what I think AKirk is trying to say about British cars. They tend to have that automotive theatre that some others brands just do not capture....and that is what the FType had in my opinion, hence the reason I am buying another.

The 718 Spyder was simply sublime to drive, but I came over all Germanic in it, stern and focussed. In the FType, I was like a kid in sweet shop, smiling at the noise and the prospect of it maybe stepping out unexpectedly but all done with such beauty in the design.

It is a head and heart decision and I think as someone else made reference to, if you are already thinking about residuals, you've already made the decision (Red I think), it has to be Porsche. I on the other hand expect to lose tons of dough on my new FType. But in all honesty, I'm not thinking about selling it, I'm only thinking about the fun I know I'm going to have. They're the last of a dying breed - grab one whilst you can.

reddiesel

1,902 posts

46 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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Its great that we have such a breadth of thought and opinion on here and I agree with all of you . Eventually because of much what you mention above , I got out of the Germanic efficiency and back into another Aston but with a Germanic sourced Power-plant . Simpo will have a few worthwhile comments to make here but looking back to my old DB9 (which was basically a rusting away basket case I bought from someones front garden) which was in my view a typical Handbuilt Aston and full of all the character you would expect from a British Car . I got into this new Vantage however and I find its completely changed the parameters of what is typical Aston . The quality and reliability is now so good that its the near equivalent of a mass produced F type and I think thats an astounding achievement for Aston Martin to have accomplished . Over on the Aston Forum I suspect many will take the view that its not a "real" Aston that I own but I have to say that for a working class kid from a Glasgow Council Estate I am thoroughly enjoying myself and I may have a DBS or the last of the Newport Pagnell Vanquishes next . Ultimately I am desperately saddened by the fate that has befallen Jaguar but at nearly 60 I think at least I had the best of it . Coming across Shap at 4am on a Winters morning in the X350 V8 , Sheepskin Over Rugs , Oxford Brogues a good Car Coat and Sinatra on the Stereo . You begin to get a view of what it means to be British and I urge Jaguar Enthusiasts everywhere to grab it whilst they still can .
The comparisons however between the F Type SVR and the Vantage I continue to wrestle with . I haven read any Comparison Tests but I would love to hear other opinions , the SVR is such fantastic value for money and apart from Badge and improved seating position in the Aston I can barely split them .

KPB1973

918 posts

98 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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What an excellent thread. Points well argued and in a refreshingly mature way for pistonheads!. Thanks chaps.

I have little to add, having never owned an F Type but being a Jag fan.

I've owned a fair few Porsches but tend to find I grow a bit bored of them quickly, because they are so utterly competent (good 986s aside, which I think are a fantastic hybrid of old school feel and modern drivability).

In their defence though, their competence is largely borne of the level of 'cohesion' of the control weights, steering response, brake feel etc. As a result, they are deeply satisfying from a tactile perspective, which is something that is hard to convey in words. To many, this element of 'rightness' in the feedback that they provide has an emotional appeal that counters the lack of ambience and slight Germanic blandness of the interior etc.

On the other hand, the F Types that I've driven have lacked that n-th degree of cohesion, whether it's the ride quality, body control, interior quality (not design) hiding their mass, slightly OTT v8 echaust etc. If you reviewed all of their characteristics, the F Type has higher peaks but more troughs than your typical Porsche, so in the right circumstances the Jag will reward in ways that a Porsche can't, but the opposite applies too.

Personally, whilst I 'get' the F Type my experience has been that the small shortfalls that they have are the ones that I value most in a weekend car, so they have some, but only limited appeal to me.

But, vive le difference - I love seeing them on the road and am so glad that they exist. They epitomise a period when Jag's ambitions were sky high, which alone gives them a special place in my mind, if not my garage.

craigjm

17,908 posts

199 months

Sunday 12th March 2023
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TheCoot said:
I on the other hand expect to lose tons of dough on my new FType. But in all honesty, I'm not thinking about selling it, I'm only thinking about the fun I know I'm going to have. They're the last of a dying breed - grab one whilst you can.
It might not in the long run because if it hasn’t been built yet it may be one of the last made. It’s a shame Jaguar doesn’t keep production records per variant rather than just the model. You will be able to tell how close to the last one it is but not whether there is another of that variant built after yours. Shame.