Are Jaguar sales numbers kept secret by JLR?
Discussion
craigjm said:
I don’t buy doom mongering like that. People have been saying the same every year since the mid 70s
I would say a much more likely scenario will be a revamped brand image released in 2025. All current cars bar the I Pace retired, one new car launched with two others in train and then it will be put up for sale. It’s clear in the strategy they launched that the activity now is a divestiture if you know what to look for.
We won’t see the closing of Jaguar under Tata. How long it lasts after a spin off is anyone’s guess depending on who buys it.
Chip shortage is likely to get worse before it gets better so JLR will prioritise supplies to the LR brand which sells better I would say a much more likely scenario will be a revamped brand image released in 2025. All current cars bar the I Pace retired, one new car launched with two others in train and then it will be put up for sale. It’s clear in the strategy they launched that the activity now is a divestiture if you know what to look for.
We won’t see the closing of Jaguar under Tata. How long it lasts after a spin off is anyone’s guess depending on who buys it.
liner33 said:
craigjm said:
I don’t buy doom mongering like that. People have been saying the same every year since the mid 70s
I would say a much more likely scenario will be a revamped brand image released in 2025. All current cars bar the I Pace retired, one new car launched with two others in train and then it will be put up for sale. It’s clear in the strategy they launched that the activity now is a divestiture if you know what to look for.
We won’t see the closing of Jaguar under Tata. How long it lasts after a spin off is anyone’s guess depending on who buys it.
Chip shortage is likely to get worse before it gets better so JLR will prioritise supplies to the LR brand which sells better I would say a much more likely scenario will be a revamped brand image released in 2025. All current cars bar the I Pace retired, one new car launched with two others in train and then it will be put up for sale. It’s clear in the strategy they launched that the activity now is a divestiture if you know what to look for.
We won’t see the closing of Jaguar under Tata. How long it lasts after a spin off is anyone’s guess depending on who buys it.
Our discussion has probably summarised the Jaguar position now.
Will have to wait to see what happens to the Company in the future.
An interesting point that I have noticed, is the difference in production efficiency, between building an XF and a C class Mercedes.
Jaguar have robots involved for some of the body construction, but then an employee appears, who manually guides the metal side of the car pressing on to the car. He then proceeded to use a wooden handled hammer, to hit parts which presumably were out of line.
Compare that with a C class, having doors fitted entirely by robots. Not a human in sight.
Watch carefully from 6:54.
An entire dashboard assembly being fitted, without any humans.
Clearly Jaguar would need to spend a fortune, before matching the modern standard of car production automation and efficiency.
China are even further ahead with automated car production.
That is a tricky decision for TATA.
Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 19th March 19:53
The UK production capability has hamstrung Jaguar for decades even during Lyons time in comparison to competitors. It is the reason why there have been some bizarre design decisions over the years as they have had to play with whatever is possible with manufacturing.
It has also meant that cars like the E and I Pace have had to be outsourced because they couldn’t use the capacity of the other lines to take the work because of the, for want of a better word, antiquated techniques they employ.
The cost to upgrade the UK factories is colossal and would wipe out profit for many years. This isn’t an issue with new factories as just like with most things building a new one is cheaper than restoring and upgrading something existing. The factories in China and Slovakia are more like the C-class line you see above.
Will be interesting to see what they do with whatever factory they move Jaguar into to build the new models. What they really need is a system that is high automated, just in time and able to build all the models on the same line. This allows 100% utilisation of the capacity regardless of which model is selling the most. Guess we will have to wait and see
It has also meant that cars like the E and I Pace have had to be outsourced because they couldn’t use the capacity of the other lines to take the work because of the, for want of a better word, antiquated techniques they employ.
The cost to upgrade the UK factories is colossal and would wipe out profit for many years. This isn’t an issue with new factories as just like with most things building a new one is cheaper than restoring and upgrading something existing. The factories in China and Slovakia are more like the C-class line you see above.
Will be interesting to see what they do with whatever factory they move Jaguar into to build the new models. What they really need is a system that is high automated, just in time and able to build all the models on the same line. This allows 100% utilisation of the capacity regardless of which model is selling the most. Guess we will have to wait and see
reddiesel said:
I have to tell you if that’s the case Craig then it will mean the closure of Castle Bromwich .
They already announced last year that production will cease at Castle Bromwich and the site will be used to consolidate all its other activities like SVO and JLR classic to cut the estate down as leases end. 2025 earmarked for it. A coincidence? I don’t think so That earlier photo of the employee letting rip with a hammer on an XF body shell, made me think that every one of those pressings, probably has a section out of line.
One would suspect therefore, that Instead of correcting a pressing discrepency, just whack each one with a hammer.
If that is what is going on, it is surprising that Jagaur want the video to be on public view.
Reminds me of the time when Aston Martins were built by men with hammers.
They say, if a DB5 has perfect panel gaps, it cannot be original. -
21st century Jaguar - note the hammer.
1960s - Aston Martin Lagonda, Newport Pagnell. - No whacking allowed, pure craftsmanship.
I dont have to tell you Jon that you are completely correct about what emerged from Newport Pagnell . I have a couple of close friends currently employed in the Works there carrying out restorations on these earlier Cars and its fascinating to hear them talk of what they find . Some unfortunately were poorly restored in the Eighties Boom which complicates matters further .
Funk said:
One thing I couldn't understand is why they called their all-electric SUV the I-PACE and the non-electric one the E-PACE.
Unless they're going for 'ilectric'..?
It looks odd because the Pace range was never completed.Unless they're going for 'ilectric'..?
The range was supposed to match the saloons so you had -
XE = E Pace
XF = F Pace
XJ = J Pace
And then the electric I Pace like IPhone etc
Obviously with the cancellation of the XJ the J Pace Jaguar version of a Range Rover went with it so there isn’t the continuity you would expect now
reddiesel said:
I dont have to tell you Jon that you are completely correct about what emerged from Newport Pagnell . I have a couple of close friends currently employed in the Works there carrying out restorations on these earlier Cars and its fascinating to hear them talk of what they find . Some unfortunately were poorly restored in the Eighties Boom which complicates matters further .
Not to mention a tonne more of them in Silver Birch than originally intended. James Bond has a lot to answer for It always screams to me that Jaguar have gone wrong by not having a small hatchback, they may not have a massive profit margin but they sell very well in this country and it introduces a whole new client base to their cars
Many people I know bought a 1 series, a3 or a class and then went back for another or had kids and moved up the brand to a x3 or a 5 series etc
They kind of did it with the E pace but they’re so expensive now it’s just become a bit of a pointless model.
Many people I know bought a 1 series, a3 or a class and then went back for another or had kids and moved up the brand to a x3 or a 5 series etc
They kind of did it with the E pace but they’re so expensive now it’s just become a bit of a pointless model.
reddiesel said:
Personally Craig I would settle for just the one sat in my Garage , the James Bond tie up was a masterstroke for Aston Martin and I believe Lyons turned down the opportunity ??
It is said, that the initial request to borrow cars, was refused by Aston Martin.
They subsequently changed their mind. - Phew!
James Bond, the top Aston Martin salesman.
Jon39 said:
reddiesel said:
Personally Craig I would settle for just the one sat in my Garage , the James Bond tie up was a masterstroke for Aston Martin and I believe Lyons turned down the opportunity ??
It is said, that the initial request to borrow cars, was refused by Aston Martin.
They subsequently changed their mind. - Phew!
James Bond, the top Aston Martin salesman.
Jon39 said:
reddiesel said:
Personally Craig I would settle for just the one sat in my Garage , the James Bond tie up was a masterstroke for Aston Martin and I believe Lyons turned down the opportunity ??
It is said, that the initial request to borrow cars, was refused by Aston Martin.
They subsequently changed their mind. - Phew!
James Bond, the top Aston Martin salesman.
craigjm said:
Yes indeed. I don’t know if Lyon’s turned down the opportunity to use an etype Reddiesel. If he did then that was a mistake!
As far as I understand Craig , Broccoli and Saltzman the James Bond Film Producers couldn’t reach agreement with Sir William Lyon’s over a number of issues involved in the supplying of E Types and the opportunity was lostforever
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