VW Up! Dealer recommending cam belt change rip off or not?
Discussion
Sheepshanks said:
If you really want to use the dealer they often have offers on for this kind of job, or will negotiate - if you can find someone who is bothered enough to negotiate.
Turned out our local dealer could have done it for less than the indie we use. Yet they didn't quote that price at any of the several previous times they'd called me chasing the work. Another reason for never going back to the hateful dealer.
The irony is strong with this one.Turned out our local dealer could have done it for less than the indie we use. Yet they didn't quote that price at any of the several previous times they'd called me chasing the work. Another reason for never going back to the hateful dealer.
jackroutly said:
Don't know much about these engines, but from what I've heard about the notorious clio cambelts, the problem there doesn't normally come from the cambelt snapping, but the timing going out when the pulleys/tensioners give up IIRC. As it's an interference engine, if the timing changes slightly the pistons and valves decide to mash together.
Depending on whether the Up's engine has vvt or has interference valves, this could possibly be why they're suggesting it, for the pulleys and tensioners rather than the belt itself. Just a theory
1.0 R3 12v (EA211)Depending on whether the Up's engine has vvt or has interference valves, this could possibly be why they're suggesting it, for the pulleys and tensioners rather than the belt itself. Just a theory
The new fuel-saving engine presented at the 2012 Geneva Motor Show
identification
parts code prefix: 04E, ID code: CHYA, CHYB
engine displacement & engine configuration
999 cubic centimetres (61.0 cu in) inline three engine (R3/I3); bore x stroke: 74.5 by 76.4 millimetres (2.93 in × 3.01 in), bore spacing: 82.0 mm (3.23 in),[2] stroke ratio: 0.99:1 - 'square engine', 333.1 cc per cylinder, compression ratio: 10.5:1
cylinder block & crankcase
cast aluminium alloy; four main bearings, die-forged steel crankshaft
cylinder head & valvetrain
cast aluminium alloy; four valves per cylinder, 12 valves total, double overhead camshaft (DOHC)
aspiration
[natural]
fuel system
multi-point electronic indirect fuel injection with three intake manifold-sited fuel injectors
DIN-rated motive power & torque outputs
44 kilowatts (60 PS; 59 bhp) @ 5,000-6,000 rpm; 95 newton metres (70 lbf·ft) @ 3,000-4,300 rpm
55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 6,200 rpm; 95 newton metres (70 lbf·ft) @ 3,000-4,300 rpm
85 kilowatts (116 PS; 114 bhp)
application
Volkswagen up! Skoda Citigo Seat Mii, Volkswagen Golf VII (2016-)
V8 TEJ said:
This I find very odd. The O.E. plugs are not precious metal so they would be 15k mile plugs at the most 
Just had mine done for the first time at almost exactly 40k and 4 years. Not cheap though.RE: timing belt. Lots of discussion previously about this on the Skoda forums for the Citigo. Skoda Technical had this to say so is as good as an official line as you'll get:
I am happy to confirm that the information I previously provided is correct, and to confirm, the cambelt replacement intervals
for your vehicle are 160,000 miles.
Having your cambelt replaced every 4 years is a UK recommendation on most Skoda vehicles, but Skoda UK's Technical Department
maintain that every 160,000 miles is the interval for a cambelt replacement on your Citigo based on the engine type and size.
The same intervals apply to the Water Pump Drive Belt.
Edited by ukaskew on Friday 26th May 14:03
ukaskew said:
V8 TEJ said:
This I find very odd. The O.E. plugs are not precious metal so they would be 15k mile plugs at the most
Just had mine done for the first time at almost exactly 40k and 4 years. Not cheap though.Even more strange. There is a choice of 2 brands of plug which are fitted to the car as O.E., Bosch or NGK. Bosch item is Y7LER02 and NGK is ZKER6A-10EG (I work at NGK).
Both products are simple Nickel Alloy plugs with no Platinum/Iridium used on either which is why they are priced at £6.90 each at the dealer. I'm guessing the labour charges are high as the cost of the plugs is not that much.
V8 TEJ said:
NGK is ZKER6A-10EG (I work at NGK).
You best have a word then:"The spark plug ZKER6A-10EG (VW part nos. 04C905606 and 04C905606A, NGK part no. 96596) was developed by NGK for use in the downsizing three-cylinder engine powering the compact cars of the VW/Audi group of companies. The nickel spark plug features a slim M12 thread and enables a service life of 60,000 kilometres."
https://www.ngk.de/fileadmin/Dokumente/EN/Presse/2...
Interval has long been 4yrs/40K miles for VW plugs, for cars on fixed interval servicing. Just had 6yr major service on daughter's Golf at an indie and plugs was about the only thing they didn't change.
Sheepshanks said:
V8 TEJ said:
NGK is ZKER6A-10EG (I work at NGK).
You best have a word then:"The spark plug ZKER6A-10EG (VW part nos. 04C905606 and 04C905606A, NGK part no. 96596) was developed by NGK for use in the downsizing three-cylinder engine powering the compact cars of the VW/Audi group of companies. The nickel spark plug features a slim M12 thread and enables a service life of 60,000 kilometres."
https://www.ngk.de/fileadmin/Dokumente/EN/Presse/2...
Interval has long been 4yrs/40K miles for VW plugs, for cars on fixed interval servicing. Just had 6yr major service on daughter's Golf at an indie and plugs was about the only thing they didn't change.
That press release was created by NGK Europe (Germany) but I'm assuming they have obtained the data from VAG. I will enquire. They (VAG) may well have stated this but it sounds very strange. No manufacturer currently has as high a service life for a non precious metal plug to my knowledge.
The majority of VAG engines have used NGK as O.E. historically and they are usually Platinum plugs hence why the service life has been listed as 40k miles in the past. All current turbocharged engines are still using Platinum/Iridium NGK items.
What is odd for the Up! is that the plugs are Nickel Alloy so they must be running very big gaps (due to being worn) before they are changed.
A minor update - I rang around the 3 Independents near us. My first question was what is your take on the cambelt change issue. All were understandably derogatory in their comments about the main dealer and their practices but 2 of the 3 just toe'd the line along the lines of the main dealer.
Only one of them gave me what sounded to me like a really honest opinion. He said he's changed hundreds of them and none have shown any sign of degradation nor is the incidence of the belt snapping very common at all. He said he'd leave the cambelt until it's at least 40,000 miles old which is a another 3 years away.
This advice actually cuts off his nose... So I think he's on the money! Ultimately it's my daughters decision but I'll advise not to bother.
Another thing he said was with regard to the front pads - he said if the dealer says they are 80% worn it's likely they'll be 50/60% worn. He also reckons a modern car will have a brake pad warning light and when that comes on there'll still be a few thousand mikes left in them. (Does anyone know whether the Up! Has this feature?). Oh and main dealer price on the pads £175 his price £90 using OE. But he hasn't got a shiny big glass and aluminium dealership to pay for.
Only one of them gave me what sounded to me like a really honest opinion. He said he's changed hundreds of them and none have shown any sign of degradation nor is the incidence of the belt snapping very common at all. He said he'd leave the cambelt until it's at least 40,000 miles old which is a another 3 years away.
This advice actually cuts off his nose... So I think he's on the money! Ultimately it's my daughters decision but I'll advise not to bother.
Another thing he said was with regard to the front pads - he said if the dealer says they are 80% worn it's likely they'll be 50/60% worn. He also reckons a modern car will have a brake pad warning light and when that comes on there'll still be a few thousand mikes left in them. (Does anyone know whether the Up! Has this feature?). Oh and main dealer price on the pads £175 his price £90 using OE. But he hasn't got a shiny big glass and aluminium dealership to pay for.
Not all cars come necessarily with pad warning lights, especially these days when all manufacturers are trying to penny pinch in every possible way
If it was my daughters car, I would not be letting some 'specialist' look after it.
Nearly all dealers will haggle.
If fact, when i had newish cars, i never paid full price for any servicing or repairs at a MD
Anyway, good luck with any goodwill you might want from the dealer in the future.
If it was my daughters car, I would not be letting some 'specialist' look after it.
Nearly all dealers will haggle.
If fact, when i had newish cars, i never paid full price for any servicing or repairs at a MD
Anyway, good luck with any goodwill you might want from the dealer in the future.
V8 TEJ said:
No manufacturer currently has as high a service life for a non precious metal plug to my knowledge.
Whatever the indie used in our Golf they were only a fiver each (so I presume can't have been Platinum/Iridium) and they did the next major service and said the plugs wouldn't need changing.Alucidnation said:
Ummmmmmm......
No.
Have I missed your point, or can you expand a little?No.
Alucidnation said:
If it was my daughters car, I would not be letting some 'specialist' look after it.
I'd rather a specialist than a franchise dealer. Especially as the work will likely be done by a lad whose just had his arse set on fire."Our" VW dealer did the first service in 20 mins, and at the 3rd service the extent of changing the brake fluid was hand-writing it on the invoice.
They bombard us with "tyres are near the legal limit" - errr...they're 4mm. "Oh yes, we go on the European legal limit of 3mm" FFS.
Alucidnation said:
Nearly all dealers will haggle.
It's got much harder to get to someone who has the authority or interest to haggle.Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 26th May 18:21
elanfan said:
He said he'd leave the cambelt until it's at least 40,000 miles old which is a another 3 years away.
This advice actually cuts off his nose... So I think he's on the money! Ultimately it's my daughters decision but I'll advise not to bother.
VW are hateful for not being clear about this - you're now in the position where, in the unlikely event that it fails it's going to be your fault.This advice actually cuts off his nose... So I think he's on the money! Ultimately it's my daughters decision but I'll advise not to bother.
I'd try asking on VW UK's Facebook page or even their 'help' Twitter account https://twitter.com/vwukhelp?lang=en and maybe you could get an "official" answer. They may well just refer you to the dealer, so say you've had conflicting information.
elanfan said:
Another thing he said was with regard to the front pads - he said if the dealer says they are 80% worn it's likely they'll be 50/60% worn. He also reckons a modern car will have a brake pad warning light and when that comes on there'll still be a few thousand mikes left in them. (Does anyone know whether the Up! Has this feature?). Oh and main dealer price on the pads £175 his price £90 using OE. But he hasn't got a shiny big glass and aluminium dealership to pay for.
So, you have had a bad experience with a dealer, get over it.
I have had f
king horrendous experiences with indys and specialists but I don't go on about it.
As I said, my dealer experiences (and some indys on sheds) have been excellent and that's with VW, Renault etc on occasion so don't tar them all with the same brush as it gets a bit boring.
I have had f
king horrendous experiences with indys and specialists but I don't go on about it.As I said, my dealer experiences (and some indys on sheds) have been excellent and that's with VW, Renault etc on occasion so don't tar them all with the same brush as it gets a bit boring.
You may have been advised that the cambelt is due based on the recommended replacement period of every 5 years for a car made after 2009. Considering this is a VW Up! the engine is in fact fitted with a long life cambelt as opposed to a traditional cam-belt. These cambelts are made for life and are not changed upon any interval as they're supposed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, unless of course there is a problem that requires them to be replaced (which is pretty much unheard of on those engines). The advisory on replacing might have been the result of someone looking at the age of the vehicle and noting it down without consideration of the engine; if you'd given authority for replacement they would have soon realised their mistake when they try to find the part on their system so it's not as if you'd been charged for something you wouldn't need.
As for the brake pads - the Up! isnt fitted with a brake pad wear sensor and therefore won't tell you when they're low. If an official dealership has inspected and informed that they are 80% worn then I'd expect they really are. Considering the low mileage the vehicle does it's not likely that you'll need to have the pads replaced urgently. If it happens that you go for replacing them and aren't confident they're actually as worn as they say, you can always request pictures with measurements as evidence. In the event they're much less worn than 80% after they've been replaced, you can dispute this and it'll be up to the dealership to pay for the cost of your new pads.
As for the brake pads - the Up! isnt fitted with a brake pad wear sensor and therefore won't tell you when they're low. If an official dealership has inspected and informed that they are 80% worn then I'd expect they really are. Considering the low mileage the vehicle does it's not likely that you'll need to have the pads replaced urgently. If it happens that you go for replacing them and aren't confident they're actually as worn as they say, you can always request pictures with measurements as evidence. In the event they're much less worn than 80% after they've been replaced, you can dispute this and it'll be up to the dealership to pay for the cost of your new pads.
Edited by Connaissance on Friday 30th June 21:18
Riley Blue said:
Cupramax said:
5 yrs for a cam belt change is pretty normal, as above if it goes you'll have even more to moan about. It's done on age or mileage, whichever comes first so low mileage is irrelevant, rubber perishes with age.
Agreed. We have an '05 Fiesta that has done only 43,500 miles. It's had its cambelt changed twice, mostly recently two months ago. Having looked at the belt that came off, I wouldn't have wanted to run it much longer as it was starting to 'go' between the teeth.I'm pretty sure even the T Series in my '97 Rover Vitesse was 90k for a belt change.
I honestly thought that was normal these days, with 50k/5 year changes required for stuff built in the 1980s and stuff built to 1980s standards, like Alfa Romeos
Are we quite sure that this isn't like Americans changing their oil every 3000 miles because that's what their 1957 Chevrolet required?
Edited by dme123 on Friday 30th June 21:18
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