man maths and V8 Vantages
Discussion
Been looking for a while: lovely car, wife's perfect car, and her possible birthday present.... but we choose them together so she is considering it.
Now, we both prefer the 4.7 over the 4.3 (manual, coupe). But am trying to see if, financially, the 4.7 is worse than the older 4.3's. Buying a good one is about £55k, versus £35-40k for a 4.3 - if depreciation is likely to keep that £15-20k gap then i'm happy to pay a chunk more upfront - but have recently been wondering if the older 4.3 is perhaps a better financial bet in 3-5 years time when we might change.....
Other minor factors are that the newer cars have a better finance rate on them, which helps slightly offset some of the costs.....
anyone been there done that and have info they'd be prepared to share form their t-shirt?
Now, we both prefer the 4.7 over the 4.3 (manual, coupe). But am trying to see if, financially, the 4.7 is worse than the older 4.3's. Buying a good one is about £55k, versus £35-40k for a 4.3 - if depreciation is likely to keep that £15-20k gap then i'm happy to pay a chunk more upfront - but have recently been wondering if the older 4.3 is perhaps a better financial bet in 3-5 years time when we might change.....
Other minor factors are that the newer cars have a better finance rate on them, which helps slightly offset some of the costs.....
anyone been there done that and have info they'd be prepared to share form their t-shirt?
Neither of them have moved much in price for 4-5 years really. Low volume car. Biggest loss you will make is the buy/sell spread so try to buy sell privately if you can and avoid losing c.£10k on the dealers margin both times. FWIW I would not be too bothered about the 4.3/4.7 thing, neither of them are really fast these days and an Audi S3 will keep up on the road in the UK. The 4.7 has a nicer interior. Good compromise is the 2007 MY 4.3 with more modern looking seats & slightly less crap fuel consumption.
Been through all that over the last few years myself. Last week I picked up my first V8V... and it was a 4.7 2014MY.
Prices have indeed moved little relatively in the last few years apart from the nearly new ones obviously (although I can see that changed when supply ends next year).
My turning point after confusing the heck out of myself on Autotrader in that time was to buy the Definitive Gaydon AM Guide (see sticky thread). So worth the £21. Reading through the meticulous spec change table over the years, it became obvious that the 2012.25MY changes were the most important. Effectively the standard V8V received several of the important updates made for the V8VS.
And I agree that V8V's have never been rocket ships. But that would be to miss the point entirely and I don't think any owner boasts that theirs will outdrag even a Focus RS. But I know which I'd prefer to park my bum in.
I realise I'll lose on mine as I bought from an AM dealer (Dick Lovett, Bristol - great experience). However, I did manage to buy an example that was nearly new in condition. To me, the most important aspects of this is that I know the suspension and engine are still A1 resulting in a driving experience that is so beyond my expectations. The smoothness whilst still being nicely sporty is fantastic. If the car is 10 years old, bushes, alignment, fatigue, etc. all start to detract in small ways but can combine to make that dream a little less perfect.
Oh - and having 1 year AM warranty as standard and a second year thrown in gives an immense peace of mind. From many reviews/reports I've read up on, these are strong cars if looked after. But I still don't fancy shelling out for a major part if the worst happens.
So I'd personally try to push the budget to £55-60k, see it depreciate maybe £5-10k (your mileage may vary, etc.) over the next couple of years, but enjoy the experience like little else!
Prices have indeed moved little relatively in the last few years apart from the nearly new ones obviously (although I can see that changed when supply ends next year).
My turning point after confusing the heck out of myself on Autotrader in that time was to buy the Definitive Gaydon AM Guide (see sticky thread). So worth the £21. Reading through the meticulous spec change table over the years, it became obvious that the 2012.25MY changes were the most important. Effectively the standard V8V received several of the important updates made for the V8VS.
And I agree that V8V's have never been rocket ships. But that would be to miss the point entirely and I don't think any owner boasts that theirs will outdrag even a Focus RS. But I know which I'd prefer to park my bum in.
I realise I'll lose on mine as I bought from an AM dealer (Dick Lovett, Bristol - great experience). However, I did manage to buy an example that was nearly new in condition. To me, the most important aspects of this is that I know the suspension and engine are still A1 resulting in a driving experience that is so beyond my expectations. The smoothness whilst still being nicely sporty is fantastic. If the car is 10 years old, bushes, alignment, fatigue, etc. all start to detract in small ways but can combine to make that dream a little less perfect.
Oh - and having 1 year AM warranty as standard and a second year thrown in gives an immense peace of mind. From many reviews/reports I've read up on, these are strong cars if looked after. But I still don't fancy shelling out for a major part if the worst happens.
So I'd personally try to push the budget to £55-60k, see it depreciate maybe £5-10k (your mileage may vary, etc.) over the next couple of years, but enjoy the experience like little else!
Same process I went through although I approached this slightly differently.
I wanted a 4.7 manual convertible but being a cautious type when moving to a new marque I bought a 2006 4.3 manual coupe with a view that if bought privately I would lose £2k when I then sold it on and bought the volante (assuming I liked the brand). Not happened as I fell for the car and it's going nowhere ( don't mention a V12).
The one I bought had clutch,bearings, bushes, all done so I can easily take on M3s etc. Also I have done work with Aston engineers and to a person they say bullet proof and easy enough for a competent home mechanic for most jobs.....
I wanted a 4.7 manual convertible but being a cautious type when moving to a new marque I bought a 2006 4.3 manual coupe with a view that if bought privately I would lose £2k when I then sold it on and bought the volante (assuming I liked the brand). Not happened as I fell for the car and it's going nowhere ( don't mention a V12).
The one I bought had clutch,bearings, bushes, all done so I can easily take on M3s etc. Also I have done work with Aston engineers and to a person they say bullet proof and easy enough for a competent home mechanic for most jobs.....
xcentric said:
Now, we both prefer the 4.7 over the 4.3 (manual, coupe). But am trying to see if, financially, the 4.7 is worse than the older 4.3's. Buying a good one is about £55k, versus £35-40k for a 4.3 - if depreciation is likely to keep that £15-20k gap then i'm happy to pay a chunk more upfront - but have recently been wondering if the older 4.3 is perhaps a better financial bet in 3-5 years time when we might change.....
The 4.7 had many detailed improvemets, which do seem desireable to many Vantage buyers.
Customer 4.7 deliveries began in September 2008, exactly when the economic crisis became very serious. The effect on AML was cancelled orders, so the number of 4.7 Vantages built each year from then on, were far fewer than in the 4.3 era.
There seems to also be some mini enthusiasm for the 4.7 with original bodywork ie. Model Years 2009 to 2012.25. Whether there might become a parallel in the distant future, with demand for the Series 1 E type Jaguar 4.2 version model, who knows.
It is clear that mileage for these cars can be related to value. There has been a 60,000 miles 4.7 on sale since last December. The price has gradually reduced and might soon be near to £35,000.
These aspects point to demand, but obviously things can change unexpectedly.
The big resale value drops have been from new (think full price with options, not list) to about 4 years old, then after that the depreciation has been very low, and the 4.7 premium that you mention has been present for several years.
Obviously there is a big difference between the main dealer trade-in figure and retail, perhaps ten to fifteen thousand. Customers of course need to pay for those swish premises and the other expensive overheads.
Hopefully a few thoughts that might be helpful for you.
Perhaps think about the Aston Martin and the spec. that you really want to own, and then try to be patient finding a good one.
Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 28th May 10:07
I bought my first Aston last year, an '07 MY V8V I had a cash budget of £35K, without having to sell the TVR, or a £55K budget if I did... So, after months of anguish, indecision, and scouring the classifieds, I took the plunge... 
I put a post on here when I was looking:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The car was bought to my attention by the previous previous owner, who provided some very valuable info about the car before I went to look at it. It was a private sale, the car had all the right factory options except the expensive audio, which didn't bother me. The colour combo was lovely, Meteorite silver, anthracite wheels, red calipers, and a red and black interior (Chancellor/Obsidian). Car had 54K on the clock, full service history, a few (simple) cosmetic jobs that needed doing, no warranty, a knackered battery, and was on the original clutch. I bought her in October last year, for a tad over £30K, knowing that a new clutch might be imminent, and a service probably around the six month mark, so I'd budgeted for a (minimum) £4K spend in the first year, which, using advanced man maths, made good sense to me, even though it was a private sale with no warranty (sometimes you have to go with your heart). After nearly 8 months and over 3,000 miles, the clutch is fine, and the only expenditure has been £120 for a new battery, which I fitted myself in the first week of ownership. It does need 2 new O2 sensors which I will fit myself, so probably another £150 or so there... I'm booking her in for a service in the next couple of weeks, and when it's time for a new clutch I'll be going for the twin plate and lightened flywheel jobbie
I justified the purchase on the basis that it's hit the bottom of the depreciation curve, it's reasonable mileage, it's a facelift '07 MY, I had a previous owner giving me confidence in the cars history (up until two years previously), I went in with eyes wide open, and its bloody gorgeous
It's not as quick as my (very modified) TVR, but I didn't need it to be, it presses on pretty well when you want it to, and has to be one of the nicest experiences you can have chasing a sunset
I spent Christmas at a hotel in the Peak District, which was really superb, but the best bit was driving there in the Aston, made a special break a very very special break
Here's some piccies...
Outside my daughters house the morning after I bought her
Back home
Parked next to beastie... (two of Britain's finest rear ends and full of V8 loveliness)
Interior
And my favourite (note cleaning products on roof of TVR)
I had a cash budget of £35K, without having to sell the TVR, or a £55K budget if I did... So, after months of anguish, indecision, and scouring the classifieds, I took the plunge... I put a post on here when I was looking:https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The car was bought to my attention by the previous previous owner, who provided some very valuable info about the car before I went to look at it. It was a private sale, the car had all the right factory options except the expensive audio, which didn't bother me. The colour combo was lovely, Meteorite silver, anthracite wheels, red calipers, and a red and black interior (Chancellor/Obsidian). Car had 54K on the clock, full service history, a few (simple) cosmetic jobs that needed doing, no warranty, a knackered battery, and was on the original clutch. I bought her in October last year, for a tad over £30K, knowing that a new clutch might be imminent, and a service probably around the six month mark, so I'd budgeted for a (minimum) £4K spend in the first year, which, using advanced man maths, made good sense to me, even though it was a private sale with no warranty (sometimes you have to go with your heart). After nearly 8 months and over 3,000 miles, the clutch is fine, and the only expenditure has been £120 for a new battery, which I fitted myself in the first week of ownership. It does need 2 new O2 sensors which I will fit myself, so probably another £150 or so there... I'm booking her in for a service in the next couple of weeks, and when it's time for a new clutch I'll be going for the twin plate and lightened flywheel jobbie
I justified the purchase on the basis that it's hit the bottom of the depreciation curve, it's reasonable mileage, it's a facelift '07 MY, I had a previous owner giving me confidence in the cars history (up until two years previously), I went in with eyes wide open, and its bloody gorgeous
It's not as quick as my (very modified) TVR, but I didn't need it to be, it presses on pretty well when you want it to, and has to be one of the nicest experiences you can have chasing a sunset
I spent Christmas at a hotel in the Peak District, which was really superb, but the best bit was driving there in the Aston, made a special break a very very special break
Here's some piccies...
Outside my daughters house the morning after I bought her
Back home
Parked next to beastie... (two of Britain's finest rear ends and full of V8 loveliness)
Interior
And my favourite (note cleaning products on roof of TVR)
Sometimes I think it's worth stating the obvious:
1. The 4.7 is always going to be more desirable and therefore carry a premium
2. A newer car (like for like on mileage and condition), is always going to carry a premium over an older car
3. You prefer the 4.7
4. The finance is cheaper
Seems an easy call
1. The 4.7 is always going to be more desirable and therefore carry a premium
2. A newer car (like for like on mileage and condition), is always going to carry a premium over an older car
3. You prefer the 4.7
4. The finance is cheaper
Seems an easy call
I've owned my V8V for a month now (07MY 4.3) and have the following experience:
- I bought mine privately for about the lowest you can get an 07MY for (sub £30k)
- The car has 6 months Aston warranty and Aston MOT protect which transferred to me
- Cosmetically it was quite poor - leather shrinkage/delam inside, stone chips/road rash and badly kerbed wheels outside
- Since buying it I've spent a futher £4k on new wheels, discs and pads all round and some service/repair items. It's been into the dealers 3 times
- It needs to go back in for further warranty work next week including misfire, difficulty starting (dealer hasn't been able to fix after trying a few things already)
- The warranty does not pay for diagnostics, which at £200 an hour can end up costing more than having somewhere like BR just do the whole repair
- It needs additional stuff replacing (some consumable, some not) and I'm waiting to see what the warranty will and will not cover
I have done DIY work to my car where possible to make it look much better, however it still needs bodyshop attention. Because of the faults and service items I now have around £33k in the car. To make it perfect would take me to around £36k even if the warranty covers the other items. That would be £36k in a 64k mile 2007 car - not worth it. That would buy a newer lower mileage car which would hold its value better over my projected year or two ownership, as putting all this money into mine isn't really adding value.
In conclusion to my ramblings - even with man maths I took a gamble (even covered by the official warranty) and believe it hasn't paid off. Buy the best car you can afford (and have it inspected if buying private) and enjoy the peace of mind. I've not been able to truly enjoy mine yet and now I'm slowly starting to resent it and the constant expenditure/dealer visits. I think unless you're very lucky you're either going to lose out on depreciation or service/repair bills on one of these!
- I bought mine privately for about the lowest you can get an 07MY for (sub £30k)
- The car has 6 months Aston warranty and Aston MOT protect which transferred to me
- Cosmetically it was quite poor - leather shrinkage/delam inside, stone chips/road rash and badly kerbed wheels outside
- Since buying it I've spent a futher £4k on new wheels, discs and pads all round and some service/repair items. It's been into the dealers 3 times
- It needs to go back in for further warranty work next week including misfire, difficulty starting (dealer hasn't been able to fix after trying a few things already)
- The warranty does not pay for diagnostics, which at £200 an hour can end up costing more than having somewhere like BR just do the whole repair
- It needs additional stuff replacing (some consumable, some not) and I'm waiting to see what the warranty will and will not cover
I have done DIY work to my car where possible to make it look much better, however it still needs bodyshop attention. Because of the faults and service items I now have around £33k in the car. To make it perfect would take me to around £36k even if the warranty covers the other items. That would be £36k in a 64k mile 2007 car - not worth it. That would buy a newer lower mileage car which would hold its value better over my projected year or two ownership, as putting all this money into mine isn't really adding value.
In conclusion to my ramblings - even with man maths I took a gamble (even covered by the official warranty) and believe it hasn't paid off. Buy the best car you can afford (and have it inspected if buying private) and enjoy the peace of mind. I've not been able to truly enjoy mine yet and now I'm slowly starting to resent it and the constant expenditure/dealer visits. I think unless you're very lucky you're either going to lose out on depreciation or service/repair bills on one of these!
Like lots of us, I've been through the same process (I refuse to call it a dilemma!). But only 11 days ago. That's how long I've owned my MY2010 V8V, so the 4.7.
I convinced her at home to "invest" in one back last summer, and the plan wasn't to get one until October this year at the earliest. The 4.7 I didn't even know existed, so it was an early 4.3 all the way at the very bottom of the market (absolute maximum budget of £35k). £50k later and after AM dealer had shifted several thousands on the price, I've now the new love of my life sitting in my garage.
I think I got lucky price-wise because my 4.7 had been sat on the dealer's forecourt since the end of last year. So, echoing just about everyone else on here, go for the best you can afford (and maybe a bit more to get the car you really want).
Going off topic slightly, I had a Noble M12, which I sold 9 years ago (I'm still weeping at the price for which I sold it compared to what it is worth now), and really wanted a MY2006 V8V. Even then, two year old ones were floating around the £35-40k bracket. I couldn't afford one back then, but my point is I was surprised when I started looking again last year how they had hardly moved in price after all this time.
I convinced her at home to "invest" in one back last summer, and the plan wasn't to get one until October this year at the earliest. The 4.7 I didn't even know existed, so it was an early 4.3 all the way at the very bottom of the market (absolute maximum budget of £35k). £50k later and after AM dealer had shifted several thousands on the price, I've now the new love of my life sitting in my garage.
I think I got lucky price-wise because my 4.7 had been sat on the dealer's forecourt since the end of last year. So, echoing just about everyone else on here, go for the best you can afford (and maybe a bit more to get the car you really want).
Going off topic slightly, I had a Noble M12, which I sold 9 years ago (I'm still weeping at the price for which I sold it compared to what it is worth now), and really wanted a MY2006 V8V. Even then, two year old ones were floating around the £35-40k bracket. I couldn't afford one back then, but my point is I was surprised when I started looking again last year how they had hardly moved in price after all this time.
As already mentioned, the lower £ values of 4.3s vs 4.7s is due to way more supply of the 4.3s (4.7 is the rarer car) and several important upgrades that benefit the 4.7 (engine, more torque/power, clutch reliability, suspension etc).
Also, consider the mileage difference between those 4.7s for sale is progressively increasing, hence the lower mileage cars with good history and properly maintained (e.g. kept under AM warranty) are becoming increasingly a rarer thing <GBP50/55k. Residuals on these have remained strong.
I faced the same 4.3 vs 4.7 dillemma two years ago and decided to put more money down for a 4.7 and never regretted.
Also, consider the mileage difference between those 4.7s for sale is progressively increasing, hence the lower mileage cars with good history and properly maintained (e.g. kept under AM warranty) are becoming increasingly a rarer thing <GBP50/55k. Residuals on these have remained strong.
I faced the same 4.3 vs 4.7 dillemma two years ago and decided to put more money down for a 4.7 and never regretted.
Shrimpvende said:
I've owned my V8V for a month now (07MY 4.3) and have the following experience:
- I bought mine privately for about the lowest you can get an 07MY for (sub £30k)
- The car has 6 months Aston warranty and Aston MOT protect which transferred to me
- Cosmetically it was quite poor - leather shrinkage/delam inside, stone chips/road rash and badly kerbed wheels outside
- Since buying it I've spent a futher £4k on new wheels, discs and pads all round and some service/repair items. It's been into the dealers 3 times
- It needs to go back in for further warranty work next week including misfire, difficulty starting (dealer hasn't been able to fix after trying a few things already)
- The warranty does not pay for diagnostics, which at £200 an hour can end up costing more than having somewhere like BR just do the whole repair
- It needs additional stuff replacing (some consumable, some not) and I'm waiting to see what the warranty will and will not cover
I have done DIY work to my car where possible to make it look much better, however it still needs bodyshop attention. Because of the faults and service items I now have around £33k in the car. To make it perfect would take me to around £36k even if the warranty covers the other items. That would be £36k in a 64k mile 2007 car - not worth it. That would buy a newer lower mileage car which would hold its value better over my projected year or two ownership, as putting all this money into mine isn't really adding value.
In conclusion to my ramblings - even with man maths I took a gamble (even covered by the official warranty) and believe it hasn't paid off. Buy the best car you can afford (and have it inspected if buying private) and enjoy the peace of mind. I've not been able to truly enjoy mine yet and now I'm slowly starting to resent it and the constant expenditure/dealer visits. I think unless you're very lucky you're either going to lose out on depreciation or service/repair bills on one of these!
The obvious problem with this approach is that there will also be people who bought one for £30k and had no problems, and people buying a £45k 4.7 who need a new clutch unexpectedly. - I bought mine privately for about the lowest you can get an 07MY for (sub £30k)
- The car has 6 months Aston warranty and Aston MOT protect which transferred to me
- Cosmetically it was quite poor - leather shrinkage/delam inside, stone chips/road rash and badly kerbed wheels outside
- Since buying it I've spent a futher £4k on new wheels, discs and pads all round and some service/repair items. It's been into the dealers 3 times
- It needs to go back in for further warranty work next week including misfire, difficulty starting (dealer hasn't been able to fix after trying a few things already)
- The warranty does not pay for diagnostics, which at £200 an hour can end up costing more than having somewhere like BR just do the whole repair
- It needs additional stuff replacing (some consumable, some not) and I'm waiting to see what the warranty will and will not cover
I have done DIY work to my car where possible to make it look much better, however it still needs bodyshop attention. Because of the faults and service items I now have around £33k in the car. To make it perfect would take me to around £36k even if the warranty covers the other items. That would be £36k in a 64k mile 2007 car - not worth it. That would buy a newer lower mileage car which would hold its value better over my projected year or two ownership, as putting all this money into mine isn't really adding value.
In conclusion to my ramblings - even with man maths I took a gamble (even covered by the official warranty) and believe it hasn't paid off. Buy the best car you can afford (and have it inspected if buying private) and enjoy the peace of mind. I've not been able to truly enjoy mine yet and now I'm slowly starting to resent it and the constant expenditure/dealer visits. I think unless you're very lucky you're either going to lose out on depreciation or service/repair bills on one of these!
Also with a cheaper car that needs some work - you can do this to your schedule as things come up and end up with a sorted car, rather than forking out from the start on a more expensive one that might still need brakes, clutch etc, or have faults occur
If you're buying a newer car with a warranty though it might make more sense as more things are covered
And in my experience it's always the older cars (surprisingly) that have caused me the most expense
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