B8 S4 Ownership

Author
Discussion

catso

14,771 posts

266 months

Thursday 28th May 2020
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GroundZero said:
Had a watch of a couple of videos on the SPS plug-in option for a remap, but it didn't fully explain how it works.

As I understand it nearly all modern car ECU's are constantly on a "learning program" to always detect the fuel in use, the environment conditions and also the style of driving ; all to 'tune' within its mapping parameters for best economy vs performance as seen fit by the original Audi programmers.

So when the SPS is plugged in it seems as though it installs a map of sorts. The vids that I watched simply mentioned that it maps for the fuel octane. But does it do anything else?
Is it a performance map for that octane or is it an economy map for that octane?
But more importantly, wouldn't the "learning" ability of the car's ECU start to overwrite it as you go on with your driving?
The maps are stored on the ECU, my understanding is that the SPS just selects between them.

Maps for different octane, presumably have different parameters for ignition advance and/or boost pressure etc. and are tuned for performance. I'm not savvy to the differences but am aware that running too high a map, for example P3 for 'race fuel' (100+ octane) on 95 octane fuel will likely cause detonation etc. that could damage the engine?

Even MRC and the like recommend using 99 octane (even for untuned cars!) and one reason for me choosing Revo was that I 'can' use lower octane fuel without risking damage by selecting the lower performance or even stock map - of course this all depends on the information being correct and their maps being good etc. but based on what I was told I thought it the better option for me as it is not always possible to get 99 octane fuel, it is more difficult to find in some European countries for example and I wouldn't want to worry if I have to fill up with 'cooking' fuel.

As for any 'learning' processes I don't know how/if that is affected but would think that if important it is included in the maps?

silentbrown

8,792 posts

115 months

Thursday 28th May 2020
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MattS5 said:
I didn't have the DSG mapped, it raises the rev limit of the red line to achieve more power, but I really didnt want to do that for the sake of an extra 10-15 bhp that high up the range. I prefer to not stress the engine for the sake of the small gains to be had, nor run the risk of upsetting the DSG software without reason.
Forgot to mention on this - Unless mine is broken, CREC cars change up at around 6,200 regardless of sport mode/ADS/kickdown/launch control, which is way before the engine redline allegedly at 7000 rpm. It's a little frustrating never being able to reach those revs smile

MattS5

1,896 posts

190 months

Thursday 28th May 2020
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silentbrown said:
Forgot to mention on this - Unless mine is broken, CREC cars change up at around 6,200 regardless of sport mode/ADS/kickdown/launch control, which is way before the engine redline allegedly at 7000 rpm. It's a little frustrating never being able to reach those revs smile
Yes, apologies, it changes up early, not at the redline, but by having the DSG map, it takes it up to much nearer the redline (6.850 I think) but would have to check for the exact numbers.

Re. the fueling of SPS and different maps, the SPS isnt available for the CREC engine, so I got mine mapped for 97 RON as opposed to 99 RON, I tend to always use Shell V Power so better than 97 , however, having spent 5 days in the highlands last year, 97 or better RON fuel was only avaiable in very very few fuel stations, I think the last stop we got it was Ullapool, and after that the next 3 stops were all 95 RON.

I just made sore not to hammer the car with full load on the throttle and stuck a bottle of fuel additive/octane booster in with each tank as most fuel stations we stopped at had it for sale.

Never had issues in Europe getting anything other than decent fuel, it seems in plentiful supply having completed aniother road trip in 2018 travelling thru Belgium, Germnay, Austria, Italy, Switzerland, France and Luxembourg.

(the highlands trp was the best though, and I'd go back in hearbeat)



silentbrown

8,792 posts

115 months

Thursday 28th May 2020
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MattS5 said:
(the highlands trp was the best though, and I'd go back in hearbeat)
yes

What's the consensus on sports diff oil changes, BTW? The service schedule doesn't mention them for S4, but does says that RS4 sports diff needs a 38K oil change. I assume they're very similar design?

MattS5

1,896 posts

190 months

Thursday 28th May 2020
quotequote all
silentbrown said:
yes

What's the consensus on sports diff oil changes, BTW? The service schedule doesn't mention them for S4, but does says that RS4 sports diff needs a 38K oil change. I assume they're very similar design?
Its not in the schedule for the S4/5, but I did get my local Audi dealer to quote for it anyway. They did state it wasnt required,. but they would do it if I wanted it completed.
Off the top of my head, I think it was £400 all in.

I was in for an early DSG oil change (30k miles as opposed to 38K) but thought the diff could go till around 35k and then I'll get it done.

Not sure there are too many of the S models with it as an option. They were limited when I was looking, thats for sure.



GroundZero

2,085 posts

53 months

Thursday 28th May 2020
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catso said:
The maps are stored on the ECU, my understanding is that the SPS just selects between them.

Maps for different octane, presumably have different parameters for ignition advance and/or boost pressure etc. and are tuned for performance. I'm not savvy to the differences but am aware that running too high a map, for example P3 for 'race fuel' (100+ octane) on 95 octane fuel will likely cause detonation etc. that could damage the engine?

Even MRC and the like recommend using 99 octane (even for untuned cars!) and one reason for me choosing Revo was that I 'can' use lower octane fuel without risking damage by selecting the lower performance or even stock map - of course this all depends on the information being correct and their maps being good etc. but based on what I was told I thought it the better option for me as it is not always possible to get 99 octane fuel, it is more difficult to find in some European countries for example and I wouldn't want to worry if I have to fill up with 'cooking' fuel.

As for any 'learning' processes I don't know how/if that is affected but would think that if important it is included in the maps?
So if I understand correctly, the SPS plug-in box basically just pre-sets the ECU map for a specific octane of fuel that is in the car's tank.

Unless it is always plugged in and constantly over-writing the car's ECU 'learning process' then the SPS plug-in will basically just give the car's ECU a "starting point" at the beginning of any one drive out. Useful if you are on an empty tank and can only find 95 octane fuel, then the car's ECU will not start up assuming it is still on 99 octane. Also useful anti-theft feature, but otherwise not a map that raises performance of the car in terms of BHP/torque ?

Please correct if wrong assumption above. (Probably grasped the wrong end of the stick on this one)

Adrian E

3,248 posts

175 months

Thursday 28th May 2020
quotequote all
MattS5 said:
silentbrown said:
yes

What's the consensus on sports diff oil changes, BTW? The service schedule doesn't mention them for S4, but does says that RS4 sports diff needs a 38K oil change. I assume they're very similar design?
Its not in the schedule for the S4/5, but I did get my local Audi dealer to quote for it anyway. They did state it wasnt required,. but they would do it if I wanted it completed.
Off the top of my head, I think it was £400 all in.

I was in for an early DSG oil change (30k miles as opposed to 38K) but thought the diff could go till around 35k and then I'll get it done.

Not sure there are too many of the S models with it as an option. They were limited when I was looking, thats for sure.
I had it done on my S5 at 70k miles - as said, it's not in the schedule for the S but figured it would be worthwhile. I had it done alongside an s-tronic service. Also worth noting that the sports diff oil is separate to the rear diff oil - I had both changed.

Cost for rear diff, sports diff and gearbox oil change was £429 (breakdown below)

Labour:
s-tronic service £52
rear diff (axle oil) change £32.50
sports diff oil change £52

Parts:
gearbox oil £104
gearbox oil filter £14
oil fiilter sealing ring £8
axle oil £25
sports diff oil £50
ODIS charge (something required for setting sports diff oil level, IIRC) £20

catso

14,771 posts

266 months

Thursday 28th May 2020
quotequote all
GroundZero said:
So if I understand correctly, the SPS plug-in box basically just pre-sets the ECU map for a specific octane of fuel that is in the car's tank.

Unless it is always plugged in and constantly over-writing the car's ECU 'learning process' then the SPS plug-in will basically just give the car's ECU a "starting point" at the beginning of any one drive out. Useful if you are on an empty tank and can only find 95 octane fuel, then the car's ECU will not start up assuming it is still on 99 octane. Also useful anti-theft feature, but otherwise not a map that raises performance of the car in terms of BHP/torque ?

Please correct if wrong assumption above. (Probably grasped the wrong end of the stick on this one)
My understanding is the ECU has multiple maps (or variations of map?) stored on it, in the case of a B8 S4 there are 4 of them: Stock setting with standard performance/power, Performance 1 for 95 octane fuel, P2 for 98 octane fuel and P3 for race fuel 100 octane.

Each level of map gives a little more performance than the previous and it is not advised to use the higher settings with lower octane fuels as it may cause damage by detonation. Presumably one could use higher octane fuel on lower settings safely in the same way you can do on a an untuned car?

The SPS simply allows you to change between the maps yourself in the same way that the Revo dealer does with a laptop.

You don't leave it plugged in (makes a funny noise if you do, plus is prone to being kicked) and you don't need it unless you want to change maps yourself.

It gives no anti-theft protection on the S4 but different cars have different functions that can be activated.

worsy

Original Poster:

5,776 posts

174 months

Thursday 11th June 2020
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Just for posterity, edited Post#1 with the current reg mark, as I'm sifting through old paperwork.

ciprypop

8 posts

63 months

Saturday 13th June 2020
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Hi, this is my first post on Pistonheads. I bought my S4 last December. I was coming from a B7 2.0 tfsi fwd and I wanted something with quattro to put the power down specially in the rainy days 😁. I was looking into S3's but I decided I want the proper quattro as in the one with torsen differential. Having quite a long comute about 45 miles each way I started to look for A4 3.0 tdi but the power encrease over the B8 was not enough 😁. So I found the cheapest S4 with a manual as from my long work experience with Audi I knew that S-tronic is not reliable, no wonder they switched for tiptronic in the B9. Of course the first thing that went was the gearbox, so I got it replaced with a cheap one of ebay with new flywheel and clutch. I enjoy the car a lot every day on my comute, of course with keeping an eye on the speed cameras😂.

Raddors

492 posts

147 months

Saturday 13th June 2020
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ciprypop said:

Hi, this is my first post on Pistonheads. I bought my S4 last December. I was coming from a B7 2.0 tfsi fwd and I wanted something with quattro to put the power down specially in the rainy days ??. I was looking into S3's but I decided I want the proper quattro as in the one with torsen differential. Having quite a long comute about 45 miles each way I started to look for A4 3.0 tdi but the power encrease over the B8 was not enough ??. So I found the cheapest S4 with a manual as from my long work experience with Audi I knew that S-tronic is not reliable, no wonder they switched for tiptronic in the B9. Of course the first thing that went was the gearbox, so I got it replaced with a cheap one of ebay with new flywheel and clutch. I enjoy the car a lot every day on my comute, of course with keeping an eye on the speed cameras??.
Very nice. Love the Imola Yellow. If you're not already sign up to RS246

ciprypop

8 posts

63 months

Saturday 13th June 2020
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Thanks. Is this RS.. a forum?

silentbrown

8,792 posts

115 months

Saturday 13th June 2020
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ciprypop said:
Thanks. Is this RS.. a forum?
Yup. https://rs246.com/

ciprypop

8 posts

63 months

Sunday 14th June 2020
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silentbrown said:
I have tried to register from my laptop and it doesnt work

silentbrown

8,792 posts

115 months

Wednesday 17th June 2020
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Anyone had to replaced/overhauled a headlamp washer?

One of mine's sprung a leak making the reservoir empty itself every week. Not sure if this can be done from inside the wheelarch, or if the bumper needs to come off...?

It's still (just) under warranty, but if it's a simple job I'll have a crack at it myself.

Dr G

15,159 posts

241 months

Thursday 18th June 2020
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Raddors said:
Very nice. Love the Imola Yellow. If you're not already sign up to RS246
Bit dead around there these days!

S4 looks cool in yellow smile

matrignano

4,344 posts

209 months

Friday 19th June 2020
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Update on my car (2010 S5 cabrio S-tronic):
I should get the car back next week, 5 weeks after dropping it off to my Audi dealer.
Gear position sensors and mechatronic unit needed replacing/repairing, gearbox out so a big job.
Also some suspension levelling sensors were damaged/malfunctioning and needed replacement.
Haven't seen the final bill, fortunately the extended warranty is picking it up, but I expect it won't be less than £3k (London labour prices).

After the other gearbox out issue I had last year (perished timing chain cover seals causing oil leaks), I have totally lost confidence in the car and the service I have had in the past 2 year from 2 separate Audi dealer has cemented my belief that I will never own an Audi again.

Not a bad car for the money but I'd go manual and non-ADS suspension for peace of mind.

Cupramax

10,469 posts

251 months

Friday 19th June 2020
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They never made the Cabrio in manual unfortunately...

BrittasBay

55 posts

74 months

Saturday 20th June 2020
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another filthy trader snapping up a well priced private car and putting it straight back up with 3k increasefurious

i know, it's naive, it's just business - no law saying they can't, but f##k me it boils my piss.

One lovely B8 S4 in maroon/ dark red(?) avant, all the trimmings, Pan roof/ss seats/carbon in lay - went up on eBay for 9k with a few mild bodywork niggles
Gone - then up for £14,995 the next day.
Another on thurs/Fri - white, same spec above, well priced at £10250 - gone and back up for £12,995.

anyway, rant overlaugh

Easternlight

3,424 posts

143 months

Sunday 21st June 2020
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BrittasBay said:
another filthy trader snapping up a well priced private car and putting it straight back up with 3k increasefurious

i know, it's naive, it's just business - no law saying they can't, but f##k me it boils my piss.

One lovely B8 S4 in maroon/ dark red(?) avant, all the trimmings, Pan roof/ss seats/carbon in lay - went up on eBay for 9k with a few mild bodywork niggles
Gone - then up for £14,995 the next day.
Another on thurs/Fri - white, same spec above, well priced at £10250 - gone and back up for £12,995.

anyway, rant overlaugh
I know how you feel but that's the motor trade for you nothing new, when I traded my 2.0 tfsi for my S4 they gave me £11k and promptly put it up for £14250
I know I could have got more for it private but I couldn't bring myself to sell it to someone as it was one of the ones that used oil @ 500ml per 1000 miles.
Shame the bloke I bought it from didn't have my conscience!