B8 S4 Ownership
Discussion
mrdanbartlett said:
Please clean the dash!! 
I keep a micro-fibre in the glovebox, give it a quick wipe down every so often.
That is remarkable MPG though, I find my MPG is worse on 95 RON, so I use 99 RON pretty much all the time.
Lol I do keep one in the dash as well, but dust just keeps coming back so quickly. The sun is hitting it so looks worse but aye, no excuse.I keep a micro-fibre in the glovebox, give it a quick wipe down every so often.
That is remarkable MPG though, I find my MPG is worse on 95 RON, so I use 99 RON pretty much all the time.
I was exclusively Esso 99 until about a month ago when the prices just got stupid and I got sick of giving the Gov even more tax. I've not really noticed any difference with 95 RON and a tin of Wynns Petrol Xtreme is only about £7 so that'll go in every month or so. It's one of the few which has PEA so hopefully it's actually doing something.
ninjag said:
Was driving back from Blackpool today and taking it easy resulted in 38.1mpg. Not bad for a six cylinder supercharged petrol, AWD and loaded up with family and luggage. It stayed at this for quite a while until I had some spirited driving sections and a bit of fun (otherwise I'd buy a 2.0d) it eventually dropped to 35.7mpg after 170 miles, which is still not bad I reckon. This is regular 95 RON Esso and a completely stock car.
That is very impressive!- were you driving with an eggshell between your foot and the throttle?- not sure i could come close to that. I guess being an auto with the 7th gear helps...
HiAsAKite said:
That is very impressive!- were you driving with an eggshell between your foot and the throttle?
- not sure i could come close to that. I guess being an auto with the 7th gear helps...
Yeah, mixture of cruise control and feather throttle, not the most enjoyable so not really practical. It's probably not the most accurate measurement either, but it's all I have because I can't be bothered keeping a log; it'll drink what it drinks!- not sure i could come close to that. I guess being an auto with the 7th gear helps...
It does have MPI and a clutch on the supercharger, which I'm sure helps a bit when coasting.
That's an average MPG? that is pretty special..
What did you do to get that power output - presume that includes changing the pulley?
How does it feel compared to stock- whilst I appreciate in theory its nearly 30% up- is that felt across the range, or primarily at top end of the rev range
What did you do to get that power output - presume that includes changing the pulley?
How does it feel compared to stock- whilst I appreciate in theory its nearly 30% up- is that felt across the range, or primarily at top end of the rev range
Correct me if wrong, but aren't there some 'proper maps' from Revo and 2 others or so which cost £750+ then other places do it via a piggy-pack box and cost less but maybe aren't as good?
I've always avoided it myself but a mate had his done by Revo and it was pretty quick, same as his mates Gt3 (07)
I've always avoided it myself but a mate had his done by Revo and it was pretty quick, same as his mates Gt3 (07)
Those ECUs have been unlocked for years, the piggyback/plug-in type affairs are a bit of a bodge (but were used back in the day before this ECU could be written through OBD).
There's a fair bit of power on the table with the 3.0 supercharged, a boost regulation valve bypasses a big chunk of boost to allowed Audi to manipulate the torque curve (and restrict power) to whatever the marketing department required. This is software controlled, so a map does only the same thing by de-restricting the boost bypass and upper limit of manifold pressure (1.9 bar max standard).
Over-speeding the supercharge as well magnifies the effect. Even with software alone they feel like a much larger engine, there's torque everywhere (and lots of it).
There's a fair bit of power on the table with the 3.0 supercharged, a boost regulation valve bypasses a big chunk of boost to allowed Audi to manipulate the torque curve (and restrict power) to whatever the marketing department required. This is software controlled, so a map does only the same thing by de-restricting the boost bypass and upper limit of manifold pressure (1.9 bar max standard).
Over-speeding the supercharge as well magnifies the effect. Even with software alone they feel like a much larger engine, there's torque everywhere (and lots of it).
Dr G said:
Those ECUs have been unlocked for years, the piggyback/plug-in type affairs are a bit of a bodge (but were used back in the day before this ECU could be written through OBD).
There's a fair bit of power on the table with the 3.0 supercharged, a boost regulation valve bypasses a big chunk of boost to allowed Audi to manipulate the torque curve (and restrict power) to whatever the marketing department required. This is software controlled, so a map does only the same thing by de-restricting the boost bypass and upper limit of manifold pressure (1.9 bar max standard).
Over-speeding the supercharge as well magnifies the effect. Even with software alone they feel like a much larger engine, there's torque everywhere (and lots of it).
Ah.. that would explain why such gains are available with a pure remap- as without increasing the boost, you are going to get limited benefit from just adjusting fuelling & timing...There's a fair bit of power on the table with the 3.0 supercharged, a boost regulation valve bypasses a big chunk of boost to allowed Audi to manipulate the torque curve (and restrict power) to whatever the marketing department required. This is software controlled, so a map does only the same thing by de-restricting the boost bypass and upper limit of manifold pressure (1.9 bar max standard).
Over-speeding the supercharge as well magnifies the effect. Even with software alone they feel like a much larger engine, there's torque everywhere (and lots of it).
So that would infer that the remap gains (sans any pulley changes) are progressively towards the top end when the boost valve would be letting off excess boost as the RPMs rise.
EDITED because I re-read last bit of your post- sounds like the this occurs right the way down the range.
Yes, it's almost like an EV in the way they can design their own torque curve. Boost increases with RPM, but as a standard car it produces more than the required boost everywhere. By varying the amount of boost bypassed they can (to a point) have any amount of boost (and therefore torque) at any RPM to tailor the power delivery to suit the application. In an S4 it produces lots of low-down and mid-range linear torque, with a little bit of a spike at higher engine speed. Just like the V8 it replaced.
That's from the engine "self study guide" that Audi used to produce for all sorts of things - if anyone is interested it's a PDF I can easily share.
That's from the engine "self study guide" that Audi used to produce for all sorts of things - if anyone is interested it's a PDF I can easily share.
Ok - much appreciated - this one here: https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-437-audi-3-0l-v6... ? (albeit this appears to be for the 290bhp CAJA engine)
Edited by HiAsAKite on Thursday 30th June 14:49
Managed to find the curve that shows (I guess for an arbitrary throttle pedal/demand position - in theory for there would be a different set of curves for each throttle demand/rpm scenario) bypass valve versus throttle opening
Interestingly if looks like at low throttle/RPMs, engine load is controlled by the throttle, and once this is at or close to WOT, its controlled by the supercharger bypass valve..
[source for this chart was the document I linked to in my earlier post- so technical is for the CAJA 3.0TFSI in the A6]
Interestingly if looks like at low throttle/RPMs, engine load is controlled by the throttle, and once this is at or close to WOT, its controlled by the supercharger bypass valve..
[source for this chart was the document I linked to in my earlier post- so technical is for the CAJA 3.0TFSI in the A6]
Edited by HiAsAKite on Thursday 30th June 18:37
HiAsAKite said:
That's an average MPG? that is pretty special..
What did you do to get that power output - presume that includes changing the pulley?
How does it feel compared to stock- whilst I appreciate in theory its nearly 30% up- is that felt across the range, or primarily at top end of the rev range
It's a custom map from Unicorn Motor Developments in Stockport on their 4wd rolling road. What did you do to get that power output - presume that includes changing the pulley?
How does it feel compared to stock- whilst I appreciate in theory its nearly 30% up- is that felt across the range, or primarily at top end of the rev range
Gearbox is also mapped raising the rev limiter to 7500 and making changes in drive and sport so it holds gears longer.
It makes the car a completely different animal.
It was 900 all in and I'd say it's definitely worth it just for the grin factor.
Little video of one of the runs
https://youtu.be/ZoqsdbOYUPI
Edited by AshyS3 on Thursday 30th June 17:55
Edited by AshyS3 on Thursday 30th June 17:56
Dr G said:
Those ECUs have been unlocked for years, the piggyback/plug-in type affairs are a bit of a bodge (but were used back in the day before this ECU could be written through OBD).
There's a fair bit of power on the table with the 3.0 supercharged, a boost regulation valve bypasses a big chunk of boost to allowed Audi to manipulate the torque curve (and restrict power) to whatever the marketing department required. This is software controlled, so a map does only the same thing by de-restricting the boost bypass and upper limit of manifold pressure (1.9 bar max standard).
Over-speeding the supercharge as well magnifies the effect. Even with software alone they feel like a much larger engine, there's torque everywhere (and lots of it).
That's an incredibly useful piece of information. Many thanks!There's a fair bit of power on the table with the 3.0 supercharged, a boost regulation valve bypasses a big chunk of boost to allowed Audi to manipulate the torque curve (and restrict power) to whatever the marketing department required. This is software controlled, so a map does only the same thing by de-restricting the boost bypass and upper limit of manifold pressure (1.9 bar max standard).
Over-speeding the supercharge as well magnifies the effect. Even with software alone they feel like a much larger engine, there's torque everywhere (and lots of it).
HiAsAKite said:
Ok - much appreciated - this one here: https://procarmanuals.com/vag-ssp-437-audi-3-0l-v6... ? (albeit this appears to be for the 290bhp CAJA engine)
Looks pretty much the same to me; I've quite a few of these saved (they're all still live on erwin) but they no longer seem to produce anything similar.Edited by HiAsAKite on Thursday 30th June 14:49
I've got that manual as well and just didn't realise it. I've got it named as CAKA as I'm sure that was the section label in erwin, despite it saying CAJA in the actual study.
I've also got one for the CREC engine, at least I'm sure that was also the section label but in the actual study it says CREA, but it certainly looks like the CREC. The output is 228kW, so I wonder if these studies are showing the detuned version or something but are still applicable to the other relevant engine codes?
I've also got one for the CREC engine, at least I'm sure that was also the section label but in the actual study it says CREA, but it certainly looks like the CREC. The output is 228kW, so I wonder if these studies are showing the detuned version or something but are still applicable to the other relevant engine codes?
ninjag said:
I've got that manual as well and just didn't realise it. I've got it named as CAKA as I'm sure that was the section label in erwin, despite it saying CAJA in the actual study.
I've also got one for the CREC engine, at least I'm sure that was also the section label but in the actual study it says CREA, but it certainly looks like the CREC. The output is 228kW, so I wonder if these studies are showing the detuned version or something but are still applicable to the other relevant engine codes?
Interesting - wonder if there are any differences- Ninjag if I pm you, would you be able to e-mail me the CAKA version? (which is the engine I actually have)I've also got one for the CREC engine, at least I'm sure that was also the section label but in the actual study it says CREA, but it certainly looks like the CREC. The output is 228kW, so I wonder if these studies are showing the detuned version or something but are still applicable to the other relevant engine codes?
EDIT: Done some more digging - I found 3.0TFSI study guides for:
CAJA
CAJA/CCAA
CREA
CGEA (hybrid)
CWGD
But not CAKA explicitly.
Edited by HiAsAKite on Friday 1st July 14:19
HiAsAKite said:
ninjag said:
I've got that manual as well and just didn't realise it. I've got it named as CAKA as I'm sure that was the section label in erwin, despite it saying CAJA in the actual study.
I've also got one for the CREC engine, at least I'm sure that was also the section label but in the actual study it says CREA, but it certainly looks like the CREC. The output is 228kW, so I wonder if these studies are showing the detuned version or something but are still applicable to the other relevant engine codes?
Interesting - wonder if there are any differences- Ninjag if I pm you, would you be able to e-mail me the CAKA version? (which is the engine I actually have)I've also got one for the CREC engine, at least I'm sure that was also the section label but in the actual study it says CREA, but it certainly looks like the CREC. The output is 228kW, so I wonder if these studies are showing the detuned version or something but are still applicable to the other relevant engine codes?
EDIT: Done some more digging - I found 3.0TFSI study guides for:
CAJA
CAJA/CCAA
CREA
CGEA (hybrid)
CWGD
But not CAKA explicitly.
Edited by HiAsAKite on Friday 1st July 14:19
I'm happy to get a copy of it to you, but as said it's the same as the link above.
ninjag said:
The CAKA one I have is the same as the one linked to earlier which says CAJA in the actual study guide. But it was definitely had CAKA as the file reference in erwin, although I can't completely remember but it's possible there were multiple engine code designations against it in erwin. Could it be possible that CAKA, CAJA etc may all be so similar that they share the same study guide, with the power output being the main difference?
I'm happy to get a copy of it to you, but as said it's the same as the link above.
I suspect it is the same one as you've said. No worries. I guess the actual engines themselves may just be different map, for the different vehicles, A6 versus S4. In many ways just reinforces the point about the versatility of mapping these to achieve different power and torque profiles made by many such as DrG, yourself etc.I'm happy to get a copy of it to you, but as said it's the same as the link above.
What I found really interesting was the way they used both boost relief/bypass and throttle opening to control load/power.
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