Two new tyres, front or rear?
Discussion
Two schools of thought here and both are right.
1st school of thought. (and a number of large tyre fitting chains will only do this, in fear of being sued for causing an accident)
They should go on the rear, when the rear looses grip on a front wheel drive car it is usually on turn in or mid corner when the driver backs off (puts more weight on the front wheels) basically lift off oversteer, this can happen very very quickly the car snaps sideways, only way to save it is to floor the throttle, as driver has backed off for a reason is likely to be the last thing he will think of in the panik, car oversteers off the road, or spins in the face of oncoming trafic.
If the front wheels loose grip, it usually running wide on the exit of the corner. The driver can simply back off the throttle, and they will slowly and predictably regain grip and there is litle dramer. Because of this the best tyres should go on the rear.
2nd school of thought.
I can feel what the back end is doing and control it on the throttle, As long as I can get the thing turned in and pointing where I want, I'm golden. I cant do anything if I'm understeering straight on because the car wont turn in. Add to that the fronts have to steer and drive, so I want the best tyres on the front.
Personally front or rear wheel drive, I like the best tyres on the front. But I would say the safest setup for the average motorist is to have the best ones on the rear.
1st school of thought. (and a number of large tyre fitting chains will only do this, in fear of being sued for causing an accident)
They should go on the rear, when the rear looses grip on a front wheel drive car it is usually on turn in or mid corner when the driver backs off (puts more weight on the front wheels) basically lift off oversteer, this can happen very very quickly the car snaps sideways, only way to save it is to floor the throttle, as driver has backed off for a reason is likely to be the last thing he will think of in the panik, car oversteers off the road, or spins in the face of oncoming trafic.
If the front wheels loose grip, it usually running wide on the exit of the corner. The driver can simply back off the throttle, and they will slowly and predictably regain grip and there is litle dramer. Because of this the best tyres should go on the rear.
2nd school of thought.
I can feel what the back end is doing and control it on the throttle, As long as I can get the thing turned in and pointing where I want, I'm golden. I cant do anything if I'm understeering straight on because the car wont turn in. Add to that the fronts have to steer and drive, so I want the best tyres on the front.
Personally front or rear wheel drive, I like the best tyres on the front. But I would say the safest setup for the average motorist is to have the best ones on the rear.
On a FWD car always put new tyres on the rear. You have no control over the rear in a FWD car so the rear had most grip. Tiff Needell demonstrated this on 'old' Top Gear many years back and even he couldn't catch the back end of a FWD car with worn tyres on the back and new tyres on the front.
And if Tiff Needell can't collect the rear end then you probably won't be able too.
B6 S4? You need to change all 4 at the same time. The manual advise swapping the tyre front to rear to equalise the wear and then changing them all together.
And if Tiff Needell can't collect the rear end then you probably won't be able too.
B6 S4? You need to change all 4 at the same time. The manual advise swapping the tyre front to rear to equalise the wear and then changing them all together.
T89 Callan said:
On a FWD car always put new tyres on the rear. You have no control over the rear in a FWD car so the rear had most grip. Tiff Needell demonstrated this on 'old' Top Gear many years back and even he couldn't catch the back end of a FWD car with worn tyres on the back and new tyres on the front.
And if Tiff Needell can't collect the rear end then you probably won't be able too.
B6 S4? You need to change all 4 at the same time. The manual advise swapping the tyre front to rear to equalise the wear and then changing them all together.
^^^^^^ thisAnd if Tiff Needell can't collect the rear end then you probably won't be able too.
B6 S4? You need to change all 4 at the same time. The manual advise swapping the tyre front to rear to equalise the wear and then changing them all together.
Interesting this. I always assumed that best/new tyres should go on the front, my thinking being that this will provide the best grip during straight line braking - the most common braking I would have thought, although I could be wrong on that assumption. However a poster which I saw a in a ATS tyre place suggested new tyres to rear.
The explanations above are very compelling but I can't help wondering what kind of driving behaviour would I ever be doing for me to lose back end grip in a FWD car? Surely you'd have to be really pushing a car hard (i.e. way too hard) to lose the rear or encounter a totally unexpected slippery/icy patch on a bend would surely also cause the front tyres to lose grip too?
The explanations above are very compelling but I can't help wondering what kind of driving behaviour would I ever be doing for me to lose back end grip in a FWD car? Surely you'd have to be really pushing a car hard (i.e. way too hard) to lose the rear or encounter a totally unexpected slippery/icy patch on a bend would surely also cause the front tyres to lose grip too?
JuniorD said:
Interesting this. I always assumed that best/new tyres should go on the front, my thinking being that this will provide the best grip during straight line braking - the most common braking I would have thought, although I could be wrong on that assumption. However a poster which I saw a in a ATS tyre place suggested new tyres to rear.
The explanations above are very compelling but I can't help wondering what kind of driving behaviour would I ever be doing for me to lose back end grip in a FWD car? Surely you'd have to be really pushing a car hard (i.e. way too hard) to lose the rear or encounter a totally unexpected slippery/icy patch on a bend would surely also cause the front tyres to lose grip too?
Find a wet roundabout drive round it and then imagine someone pulls out in front of you, lift off/brake and you will be in a world of back-end sliding.The explanations above are very compelling but I can't help wondering what kind of driving behaviour would I ever be doing for me to lose back end grip in a FWD car? Surely you'd have to be really pushing a car hard (i.e. way too hard) to lose the rear or encounter a totally unexpected slippery/icy patch on a bend would surely also cause the front tyres to lose grip too?
Yes if you hit ice the front end will lose grip too but you can do something about this, a jab of the brakes will faorce the front tyres into the floor and increase grip, whereas you have no control over the rear end.
I am 99% in agreement with T89 Callen, but I would say, the driver does have some kind of control even when the back end goes in the fastest was violent manner, the car can be saved by flooring the throttle, you can always adjust the front rear ballance on the throttle
You hit the nial on the head by says go round a wet roundabout and back off, you can feel it coming round and just increase the throttle a bit a pull it back straight.
You hit the nial on the head by says go round a wet roundabout and back off, you can feel it coming round and just increase the throttle a bit a pull it back straight.
Tame Technician said:
I am 99% in agreement with T89 Callen, but I would say, the driver does have some kind of control even when the back end goes in the fastest was violent manner, the car can be saved by flooring the throttle, you can always adjust the front rear ballance on the throttle
You hit the nial on the head by says go round a wet roundabout and back off, you can feel it coming round and just increase the throttle a bit a pull it back straight.
Well yes flooring it will usually sort it out, the problem is of someone has just pulled out in front of you flooring it is going to be the last thing you do.You hit the nial on the head by says go round a wet roundabout and back off, you can feel it coming round and just increase the throttle a bit a pull it back straight.
All this speak of wet roundabouts is making me my miss my old Audi 80 TDi, it used to snap into lift off oversteer at the hint of a lift off. It was so long and heavy it used to slide in a wierd slow-motion way.
agree with the above lot, new on the back.
Costco ran a michelin campaign a few years ago and played the adverts in store. I cant find the European one but here is the USA version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCbGddl_2t8
The European advert was on a Saab so its not even about the driven axles, the Saab was fishtailing violently at speed when grip started to go.
Costco ran a michelin campaign a few years ago and played the adverts in store. I cant find the European one but here is the USA version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCbGddl_2t8
The European advert was on a Saab so its not even about the driven axles, the Saab was fishtailing violently at speed when grip started to go.
istoo said:
agree with the above lot, new on the back.
Costco ran a michelin campaign a few years ago and played the adverts in store. I cant find the European one but here is the USA version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCbGddl_2t8
The European advert was on a Saab so its not even about the driven axles, the Saab was fishtailing violently at speed when grip started to go.
Quite an interesting vid' I'd be inclined to trust what Michelin say.Costco ran a michelin campaign a few years ago and played the adverts in store. I cant find the European one but here is the USA version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCbGddl_2t8
The European advert was on a Saab so its not even about the driven axles, the Saab was fishtailing violently at speed when grip started to go.
JuniorD said:
Would be interested to see a comparison of stopping distances in dry and wet conditions with the tyres in the two comfiguations.
Indeed. When braking so much more grip is demanded of the front tyres. Given this, in water, the level of grip is determined by the tyres' ability to disperse the water, in turn determined by the tread depth (if it never rained we'd not need tread, slicks would be better). The less tread on the front, the less water it'd take to break that grip.Which tyres generally wear out first (if not rotated)? Fronts, because more is demanded of them.
Vid was interesting, presumably rwd cars, pretty well how you'd expect them to behave (note at end of vid noted tho). But in a fwd car, which are designed generally to understeer, i.e. lose grip at the front firts, front for me it is.
Just my opinion. An interesting thread thx
Sticks. said:
JuniorD said:
Would be interested to see a comparison of stopping distances in dry and wet conditions with the tyres in the two comfiguations.
Indeed. When braking so much more grip is demanded of the front tyres. Given this, in water, the level of grip is determined by the tyres' ability to disperse the water, in turn determined by the tread depth (if it never rained we'd not need tread, slicks would be better). The less tread on the front, the less water it'd take to break that grip.Which tyres generally wear out first (if not rotated)? Fronts, because more is demanded of them.
Vid was interesting, presumably rwd cars, pretty well how you'd expect them to behave (note at end of vid noted tho). But in a fwd car, which are designed generally to understeer, i.e. lose grip at the front firts, front for me it is.
Just my opinion. An interesting thread thx
So the tyres you're relying on the most for wet weather braking are not as important as the back ones? Setting aside anything else, how does that work?
Having been through the claims process after an accident, I feel fairly sure that an insurance company would try and reduce its liability in a wet weather accident rrelative to the tread on your fronts.
Having been through the claims process after an accident, I feel fairly sure that an insurance company would try and reduce its liability in a wet weather accident rrelative to the tread on your fronts.
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