Car stuck in France

[saruji]

Dear All, I am new to posting here but have been following the site for years as I am a long term TVR owner.

My car a 98 Griffith 500 has spent all winter in storage in France with the battery out. Last week I went to wake it up to bring it home for MOT etc and it wouldn't start.
I have followed all the threads I can find regarding immobiliser failure and I reckon that is what the problem is. When the immobiliser is cancelled and the ignition switched on, the fuel pump primes but the starter solenoid remains dead. If I put 12v direct to the solenoid everything is good. In the past there have been intermittent starting problems which I had always put doen to the immobiliser and now I am assuming that the contacts for the starter solenoid have now finally given up the ghost completely.
My question is there a quick and dirty solution to bypassing the immobiliser so I can get the car home and sort out a proper fix.

I would be very grateful if someone would PM me any info

[Alpha Omega]

You have already found the solution

[saruji]

True but there is quick and dirty, and quick and dirty. Just jumping 12v volts from the starter cable to the solenoid is probably not the best way to drive the car 600 miles home. I read on these pages before that is a straightforward way of bypassing the immobilser

[Alpha Omega]

saruji said:

True but there is quick and dirty, and quick and dirty. Just jumping 12v volts from the starter cable to the solenoid is probably not the best way to drive the car 600 miles home. I read on these pages before that is a straightforward way of bypassing the immobilser

You simply run a wire into the vehicle for cranking, get it home and then start delving deeper
You may make things worse by attempting anything else until out of France

[Steve_D]

On most of the immobilisers the wires are all black for the very reason of not making it easy to bypass.
As has been said just get it running and home.
Once home or even before order a replacement immobiliser from http://www.abacuscaralarms.co.uk/tvr-alarms.html
Should be a straight plug in replacement with the bonus that Abacus have corrected the wiring error TVR made.

Steve

[5.0ltr]

And of course Carl now lives in France. http://www.tvruk.tv/

[ChimpOnGas]

Hi Joe, email me at the address I've just sent you in a PM and by return I will send you my immobiliser bypass instructions.

The Meta immobiliser controls two circuits:

1. The starter solenoid

2. The ECU

Keep in mind it's actually the ECU turns the fuel pump on not the immobiliser, when you disengage the immobiliser the ECU is switched on which is designed to run the fuel pump for a few seconds just to prime the rail, after a few seconds the ECU turns the fuel pump off until it sees a cranking/engine running signal from the coil. People get confused by the sound of the fuel pump buzzing thinking the immobiliser is directly turning on the fuel pump, strictly speaking that's not the case as it's the ECU that controls the fuel pump.

By passing the immobiliser on the starter solenoid circuit still retains one immobilised circuit, ie the ECU and so the fuel pump, after following my immobiliser starter solenoid circuit bypass instructions you will end up with a car that cranks but still refuses to start until you disengage the immobiliser.

I've shared my simple step by step instructions with over 100 Chimaera and Griffith owners now, it's no more than an hours work with the most time consuming element being taking the dash top off. The total expenditure for completing the bypass is the cost of a few crimp connectors, ie pence not pounds

I look forward to hearing from you, Dave.

[Alpha Omega]

ChimpOnGas said:

Hi Joe, email me at the address I've just sent you in a PM and by return I will send you my immobiliser bypass instructions.

The Meta immobiliser controls two circuits:

1. The starter solenoid

2. The ECU

Keep in mind it's actually the ECU turns the fuel pump on not the immobiliser, when you disengage the immobiliser the ECU is switched on which is designed to run the fuel pump for a few seconds just to prime the rail, after a few seconds the ECU turns the fuel pump off until it sees a cranking/engine running signal from the coil. People get confused by the sound of the fuel pump buzzing thinking the immobiliser is directly turning on the fuel pump, strictly speaking that's not the case as it's the ECU that controls the fuel pump.

By passing the immobiliser on the starter solenoid circuit still retains one immobilised circuit, ie the ECU and so the fuel pump, after following my immobiliser starter solenoid circuit bypass instructions you will end up with a car that cranks but still refuses to start until you disengage the immobiliser.

I've shared my simple step by step instructions with over 100 Chimaera and Griffith owners now, it's no more than an hours work with the most time consuming element being taking the dash top off. The total expenditure for completing the bypass is the cost of a few crimp connectors, ie pence not pounds

I look forward to hearing from you, Dave.

This is not good advice, there is an unknown fault on this vehicle and the owner wants to get it back to the UK
Why advise to bypass an immobiliser that hasn't been proven faulty?

[blitzracing]

Id suggest this is good fault finding by removing the unknowns- let alone the known issues with the immobilisers contacts burning out due to incorrect TVR wiring.

Edited by blitzracing on Tuesday 20th June 12:06

[Penelope Stopit]

blitzracing said:

Id suggest this is good fault finding by removing the unknowns- let alone the know issues with the immobilisers contacts burning out due to incorrect TVR wiring.

Yes I understand why you would suggest that bad advice is good advice
Thank you

[blitzracing]

Im not sure how to take that? Im sure Dave will put you straight on how good his advice is .....

[Penelope Stopit]

ChimpOnGas said:

Alpha Omega said:

This is not good advice, there is an unknown fault on this vehicle and the owner wants to get it back to the UK
Why advise to bypass an immobiliser that hasn't been proven faulty?

I would take your point Alpha Omega had it not been completely obvious you haven't properly read the very first comments made by the OP when he stated this very post and called for our help.

To make it easy for you here's what he said....

saruji said:

I have followed all the threads I can find regarding immobiliser failure and I reckon that is what the problem is. When the immobiliser is cancelled and the ignition switched on, the fuel pump primes but the starter solenoid remains dead. If I put 12v direct to the solenoid everything is good. In the past there have been intermittent starting problems which I had always put doen to the immobiliser and now I am assuming that the contacts for the starter solenoid have now finally given up the ghost completely.
My question is there a quick and dirty solution to bypassing the immobiliser so I can get the car home and sort out a proper fix.

I would be very grateful if someone would PM me any info

Thanks for your comments though Alpha Omega, I now won't be sending my bypass instructions to the OP even though he's asking for them and has fairly conclusively diagnosed the problem as an immobiliser fault. If the OP disagrees with this he now needs to take it up with Alpha Omega.

In the mean time it might help the ignorant to understand this problem is extremely common on these cars which is why I get at least four request a month for my bypass instructions, a bypass that's carefully designed to be completely safe and reversible by the way.The fact is TVR wired the low amp ECU through the higher amp relay potted inside the Meta unit, a relay that was actually designed for the higher amp starter solenoid circuit, TVR then wired the remaining lower amp relay potted inside the Meta unit disigned for the low amp ECU to the starter solenoid circuit, because this relay is under-specified for the higher current drawn by the starter solenoid it has a very tough time and consequently a greatly reduced life.

With these facts very well understood and given the OP can get his car started by running a jumper lead from the sprung cranking terminal on his ignition switch (which is just an immobiliser bypass anyway), I think its safe to assume my bypass instructions (the instructions the OP is asking for) will help. But as Alpha Omega knows best and has told me I'm not offering good advice I will now hold off sending my instructions to the OP until he returns to his post and overrules the highly helpful comments from Alpha Omega.

Upon sending my instructions my guess is the next thing we will hear from the OP having completed the bypass is his car is starting with 100% reliability, but hey what do I know

Dave.

Steady on, don't be getting over excited it does your heart no good
I only reply to posts having thoroughly read them, it is thee that hasn't read the opening post thoroughly or misunderstood it or having a bad day or doesn't like standing to be corrected even when proven wrong

The OP comments I reckon that is what the problem is
There is a massive difference between I reckon that is what the problem is and I know that is what the problem is

I can only give my good advice going by what is written in an opening post
The OP and yourself are playing the guessing game by quoting immobiliser fault rectification when this fault has not been proven

This is all in black and white in the opening post and I am confused as to why you don't understand my good advice against your bad advice

But..................All said and done............Don't be getting over excited about something of this nature as it will damage your health, once you have calmed down and thought a little about the above I am sure you will understand why I mentioned your advice is not good advice due to you attempting to solve an unproven fault by bypassing what could be a fully functional immobiliser

I love you very much and always will, have a good day and keep enjoying life
Cheers Penelope Stopit alias Alpha Omega

[ChimpOnGas]

Alpha Omega said:

This is not good advice, there is an unknown fault on this vehicle and the owner wants to get it back to the UK
Why advise to bypass an immobiliser that hasn't been proven faulty?

I would take your point Alpha Omega had it not been completely obvious you haven't properly read the very first comments made by the OP when he started this post and called for our help.

To make it easy for you here's what he said....

saruji said:

I have followed all the threads I can find regarding immobiliser failure and I reckon that is what the problem is. When the immobiliser is cancelled and the ignition switched on, the fuel pump primes but the starter solenoid remains dead. If I put 12v direct to the solenoid everything is good. In the past there have been intermittent starting problems which I had always put doen to the immobiliser and now I am assuming that the contacts for the starter solenoid have now finally given up the ghost completely.
My question is there a quick and dirty solution to bypassing the immobiliser so I can get the car home and sort out a proper fix.

I would be very grateful if someone would PM me any info

Thanks for your comments though Alpha Omega, I now won't be sending my bypass instructions to the OP even though he's asking for them and has fairly conclusively diagnosed the problem as an immobiliser fault. If the OP disagrees with this he now needs to take it up with Alpha Omega.

In the mean time it might help the ignorant to understand this problem is extremely common on these cars which is why I get at least four request a month for my bypass instructions, a bypass that's carefully designed to be completely safe and reversible by the way.The fact is TVR wired the low amp ECU through the higher amp relay potted inside the Meta unit, a relay that was actually designed for the higher amp starter solenoid circuit, TVR then wired the remaining lower amp relay potted inside the Meta unit disigned for the low amp ECU to the starter solenoid circuit, because this relay is under-specified for the higher current drawn by the starter solenoid it has a very tough time and consequently a greatly reduced life.

With these facts very well understood and given the OP can get his car started by running a jumper lead from the sprung cranking terminal on his ignition switch (which is just an immobiliser bypass anyway), I think its safe to assume my bypass instructions (the instructions the OP is asking for) will help. But as Alpha Omega knows best and has told me I'm not offering good advice I will now hold off sending my instructions to the OP until he returns to his post and overrules the highly helpful comments from Alpha Omega.

Upon sending my instructions my guess is the next thing we will hear from the OP (having completed the bypass), is his car is starting with 100% reliability, but hey what do I know

Dave.

[Penelope Stopit]

Penelope Stopit said:

ChimpOnGas said:

Alpha Omega said:

This is not good advice, there is an unknown fault on this vehicle and the owner wants to get it back to the UK
Why advise to bypass an immobiliser that hasn't been proven faulty?

I would take your point Alpha Omega had it not been completely obvious you haven't properly read the very first comments made by the OP when he stated this very post and called for our help.

To make it easy for you here's what he said....

saruji said:

I have followed all the threads I can find regarding immobiliser failure and I reckon that is what the problem is. When the immobiliser is cancelled and the ignition switched on, the fuel pump primes but the starter solenoid remains dead. If I put 12v direct to the solenoid everything is good. In the past there have been intermittent starting problems which I had always put doen to the immobiliser and now I am assuming that the contacts for the starter solenoid have now finally given up the ghost completely.
My question is there a quick and dirty solution to bypassing the immobiliser so I can get the car home and sort out a proper fix.

I would be very grateful if someone would PM me any info

Thanks for your comments though Alpha Omega, I now won't be sending my bypass instructions to the OP even though he's asking for them and has fairly conclusively diagnosed the problem as an immobiliser fault. If the OP disagrees with this he now needs to take it up with Alpha Omega.

In the mean time it might help the ignorant to understand this problem is extremely common on these cars which is why I get at least four request a month for my bypass instructions, a bypass that's carefully designed to be completely safe and reversible by the way.The fact is TVR wired the low amp ECU through the higher amp relay potted inside the Meta unit, a relay that was actually designed for the higher amp starter solenoid circuit, TVR then wired the remaining lower amp relay potted inside the Meta unit disigned for the low amp ECU to the starter solenoid circuit, because this relay is under-specified for the higher current drawn by the starter solenoid it has a very tough time and consequently a greatly reduced life.

With these facts very well understood and given the OP can get his car started by running a jumper lead from the sprung cranking terminal on his ignition switch (which is just an immobiliser bypass anyway), I think its safe to assume my bypass instructions (the instructions the OP is asking for) will help. But as Alpha Omega knows best and has told me I'm not offering good advice I will now hold off sending my instructions to the OP until he returns to his post and overrules the highly helpful comments from Alpha Omega.

Upon sending my instructions my guess is the next thing we will hear from the OP having completed the bypass is his car is starting with 100% reliability, but hey what do I know

Dave.

Steady on, don't be getting over excited it does your heart no good
I only reply to posts having thoroughly read them, it is thee that hasn't read the opening post thoroughly or misunderstood it or having a bad day or doesn't like standing to be corrected even when proven wrong

The OP comments I reckon that is what the problem is
There is a massive difference between I reckon that is what the problem is and I know that is what the problem is

I can only give my good advice going by what is written in an opening post
The OP and yourself are playing the guessing game by quoting immobiliser fault rectification when this fault has not been proven

This is all in black and white in the opening post and I am confused as to why you don't understand my good advice against your bad advice

But..................All said and done............Don't be getting over excited about something of this nature as it will damage your health, once you have calmed down and thought a little about the above I am sure you will understand why I mentioned your advice is not good advice due to you attempting to solve an unproven fault by bypassing what could be a fully functional immobiliser

I love you very much and always will, have a good day and keep enjoying life
Cheers Penelope Stopit alias Alpha Omega

I think our posts crossed
All my love as always
Penelope Stopit alias Alpha Omega

[saruji]

Gentlemen

I have been a long term owner of TVR cars and this particular one I have had for sixteen years. I am also what I would consider to be a competent mechanic and capable of deciding what is good or bad advice when it comes to looking after my various vehicles.

In the past on this forum I have seen posts regarding the immobiliser fitted to this vehicle and the various fixes available and I thought that if I could get the details of how to bypass then it gives me another option before I have to leave France for the UK

I really didn't intend to start a full scale bust up between members

Thanks and regards for all your comments

[Penelope Stopit]

saruji said:

Gentlemen

I have been a long term owner of TVR cars and this particular one I have had for sixteen years. I am also what I would consider to be a competent mechanic and capable of deciding what is good or bad advice when it comes to looking after my various vehicles.

In the past on this forum I have seen posts regarding the immobiliser fitted to this vehicle and the various fixes available and I thought that if I could get the details of how to bypass then it gives me another option before I have to leave France for the UK

I really didn't intend to start a full scale bust up between members

Thanks and regards for all your comments

No problem
These little differences in opinion do crop up now and then
Have a safe and enjoyable journey back from France

[ChimpOnGas]

There's no bust up, just one guy suggesting my offer to assist you is less than helpful when clearly you've already located the issue

During the last five years my bypass instructions have been used by over 100 Chimaera and Griffith owners to get there car cranking reliably again, I only send the instructions on request which clearly demonstrates there's a significant demand for them, a demand that continues to this day.

The underlying issue and how TVR hardwired it into every Meta installation is well understood and documented not only on these pages by me when I uncovered TVR's mistake many years ago, but have subsequently appeared on the Abacus Alarm website further endorsing the discovery.

I have once more taken the time to repeat the reasons for this extremely common fault on this post should the information have been missed by some, if I had my way I'd create a Wiki on the forum so I'd neither have to continually repeat myself or send the same instructions out in separate emails at least for times a month when people request them, saying that I'm always happy to help where I can because this is what the forum is all about. Sometimes I need help too, so I'd hope by helping others in my small way, the community might feel disposed to help me in return if I needed some support?

I get that posting my instruction on a public forum is not practical as they do contain information you could argue may help a thief start the car, my personal opinion is any self respecting 12 year old joy rider could have it away with a Chimaera irrespective of my bypass instructions being posted on a public forum because what were talking about here is so simple my little nephew could work it out in the time it takes him to drink his next mini carton of Ribena.

Top tips:

• The immobiliser is just a switch

• A switch you just remotely turn on and off with the IR fob

• The immobiliser sits between the ignition switch and the device or devices being switched on when you turn the key in the ignition switch

• The immobiliser has two circuits, the ECU and the starter solenoid

• While TVR neglected to follow best practice by fitting a dedicated starter relay this is seldom the cause of a no start

• Adding a starter relay as with the so called 'Hot Start Kit' from Modwise is a good idea and may even help take some load off the immobiliser, but it cant fix the Meta relay that's almost certainly already got damaged contacts from years of being overloaded

• The fundamental underlying issue of TVR wiring the immobiliser incorrectly can be quickly and easily resolved with a simple bypass of the problematic starter solenoid circuit that passes through the Meta unit and its feeble little low amp rated internal relay

• The bypass can be executed in a number of ways, the simplest being to take the live from the sprung start position on the ignition barrel direct to the low amp trigger terminal on the starter solenoid

• A neater solution is available from me with step by step instructions supported by photographs and online links mostly to help you remove the dash top

I will now send these instructions to the OP, Alpha Omega is welcome to them too when one day he finds his car isn't cranking

All the best, Dave

[Penelope Stopit]

Well done sending the OP your information

Penelope Stopit alias Alpha Omega

[phillpot]

Things seem to be disappearing around here?

[ChimpOnGas]

Penelope Stopit said:

Well done sending the OP your information

Penelope Stopit alias Alpha Omega

Well that proves you won't need my instructions then.

A: Because you're clearly an expert

And

B: Because you don't even own a TVR