My Pre-cat Griff and MOT emissions

[unclemark123]

I have just picked up a K reg 4.0 Griff. Registration doc states it was first registered 13-10-1992. It does not have cats fitted. I believe cars registered after the 1st August 1992 must have cats fitted. Can someone please explain why my car does not have them, and how it passes an MOT?

[SMB]

Pre cat cars exist on an emissions exemption list for the transition period post august 1992.
This is based on chassis number

Read this and check your chassis vs the annex

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

[unclemark123]

Thanks. was just reading that in the mean time. If you check the annex you get the section as in the pic:

So, looking at the notes, the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th character in the chassis number must match one in the list to qualify for the more stringent emissions test. My digits are DGN4P1, which is not on the list, so I conclude the test limits are:



Agreed?

[SMB]

unclemark123 said:

Thanks. was just reading that in the mean time. If you check the annex you get the section as in the pic:

So, looking at the notes, the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th character in the chassis number must match one in the list to qualify for the more stringent emissions test. My digits are DGN4P1, which is not on the list, so I conclude the test limits are:



Agreed?

Yes, as it's not in the annex the default non cat standards apply as per the cars age in the table

[unclemark123]

Thanks

Next question, if I LS swap it, is/are there any regs that change the above?

[SMB]

unclemark123 said:

Thanks

Next question, if I LS swap it, is/are there any regs that change the above?

I would say it's the cars age that determines test requirements based on this From the mot manual

If a vehicle first used before 1 September 2002 is fitted with an engine that's older than the vehicle, you must test it to the standards applicable for the engine. The vehicle presenter must have proof of the age of the engine.

If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle.

If an engine has been modified in any way, it still must meet the exhaust emission requirements according to the age of the vehicle.

[FlipFlopGriff]

Not sure if 1st Jan 1993 was the date as a lot of pre cat Griffs registered 31/12/92 to maybe avoid this issue. Mine is June 92 so less of an issue.
FFG

[ianwayne]

The transition emission regs were there for manufacturers who had models still 'in the pipeline' selling. Several models of cars were killed off rather than re-engineered to run with cats fitted. The Lotus Excel comes to mind. Same thing for the Ford Sierra. And of course the TVR Griffith 'pre' cat models.

In 1992, there were still a few to sell that ended up being K reg. They don't need a cat fitting. Other manufacturers such as Jag / Merc etc had been fitting cats for several years ahead. I believe the 'hard' cut off is 1st Jan 1993.

[LLantrisant]

SMB said:

I would say it's the cars age that determines test requirements based on this From the mot manual

If a vehicle first used before 1 September 2002 is fitted with an engine that's older than the vehicle, you must test it to the standards applicable for the engine. The vehicle presenter must have proof of the age of the engine.

If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle.

If an engine has been modified in any way, it still must meet the exhaust emission requirements according to the age of the vehicle.

"If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle" .--> of which vehicle? the donor where the engine comes from or the car where the engine goes in?

as kitcars can be still built with a reg-date of e.g. 2018 but using an engine from the 60ies....how comes that?

[SMB]

LLantrisant said:

SMB said:

I would say it's the cars age that determines test requirements based on this From the mot manual

If a vehicle first used before 1 September 2002 is fitted with an engine that's older than the vehicle, you must test it to the standards applicable for the engine. The vehicle presenter must have proof of the age of the engine.

If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle.

If an engine has been modified in any way, it still must meet the exhaust emission requirements according to the age of the vehicle.

"If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle" .--> of which vehicle? the donor where the engine comes from or the car where the engine goes in?

as kitcars can be still built with a reg-date of e.g. 2018 but using an engine from the 60ies....how comes that?

The kit car rules were clarified separately

[spitfire4v8]

LLantrisant said:

"If a vehicle first used on or after 1 September 2002 is fitted with a different engine, you must test it to the emissions standards for the age of the vehicle" .--> of which vehicle? the donor where the engine comes from or the car where the engine goes in?

Seems pretty clear to me .. the age of the vehicle being tested. If they meant the age of the engine they'd have said age of the engine, which would be pretty hard to determine, whereas the age of the vehicle is somewhat less difficult.