How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)
Discussion
Continued from here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
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https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Remember to keep it within the rules
Scrump said:
Continued from here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Remember to keep it within the rules
Who, us?? https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Remember to keep it within the rules
Gareth1974 said:
I’m struggling to see how something better than May’s deal can be found, unless we have the “border in the Irish Sea” which will never be acceptable to Unionists, or go against the Good Friday agreement, and have some kind of border arrangement between N.I. and the Republic of Ireland.
The Customs Union idea that seems to be gathering momentum would largely prevent the N.I. issue/need for the backstop that we requested, but gives us less freedom than May’s plan.
We could simply have an open border. I don't see any problem with that politically in Britain or in Ireland, from the little I know of Irish politics. We have had free travel for decades, neither of us are in Schengen and neither are drastically cheap or full of would be immigrants desperate to cross. By simple geography it's hard to imagine hordes of shoppers from the continent flooding up to Northern Ireland via the Republic to load up on American chlorinated chicken or £10 a pack B&H, or an army of illegal migrants preferring to go via Dublin.The Customs Union idea that seems to be gathering momentum would largely prevent the N.I. issue/need for the backstop that we requested, but gives us less freedom than May’s plan.
So just keep the border as it is.
Accept that a few people a few miles either side will border hop for fuel etc, and get on with it.
The best I've been able to get from Remainers is that the EU has to have customs checks to protect its single market, though nobody seems to know from what. Or a vague possibility that the EU may in future lodge a complaint with the WTO to tackle some as yet unspecified issue relating to its customs procedures. Usually followed by a petulant reminder that it was Leave who wanted border controls so we couldn't possibly have an open border with Ireland. To which a Leaver might well respond that it's the EU that wanted peace, cooperation and open borders in Europe so it's a bit rich to now demand a border.
The fact that the obvious, elegant and zero effort idea has barely been discussed makes me fairly sure that these "negotiations" have been a sham from day one and the whole withdrawal agreement is no more than a diversion to make us either remain in the EU or lock us in to all the significant parts of the project while giving us blue passports and a few other tokens to keep those old duffers happy until the new generation of Europhile internationalists takes over. A dangerous delusion, but exactly the sort of dangerous delusion power mad dictators fall for.
re: customs union.
The EU have rejected the idea previously of a customs union without free movement.
Labour can point the fingers but this is a circular discussion where the UK can’t dictate the terms and I think this is why talks have broken down.
Three years of negotiations behind the scenes and i cant believe this is where we are, pointless attempts at point scoring against at a PM who has the best deal on the table and it’s take it or leave it time.
I don’t like the deal either but it was clear from the start that the EU would not negotiate. It’s a shame but EU politics died in 2016.
The EU have rejected the idea previously of a customs union without free movement.
Labour can point the fingers but this is a circular discussion where the UK can’t dictate the terms and I think this is why talks have broken down.
Three years of negotiations behind the scenes and i cant believe this is where we are, pointless attempts at point scoring against at a PM who has the best deal on the table and it’s take it or leave it time.
I don’t like the deal either but it was clear from the start that the EU would not negotiate. It’s a shame but EU politics died in 2016.
tumble dryer said:
Ayahuasca said:
Here we go again.
I don't post here a lot but I think I read most of what's written, and I was wondering just how many members are similar, or don't post at all?Have we a large silent readership? Anyone know, or care to guess?
Registered Users is close to 580,000
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Gareth1974 said:
I’m struggling to see how something better than May’s deal can be found, unless we have the “border in the Irish Sea” which will never be acceptable to Unionists, or go against the Good Friday agreement, and have some kind of border arrangement between N.I. and the Republic of Ireland.
The Customs Union idea that seems to be gathering momentum would largely prevent the N.I. issue/need for the backstop that we requested, but gives us less freedom than May’s plan.
We could simply have an open border. I don't see any problem with that politically in Britain or in Ireland, from the little I know of Irish politics. We have had free travel for decades, neither of us are in Schengen and neither are drastically cheap or full of would be immigrants desperate to cross. By simple geography it's hard to imagine hordes of shoppers from the continent flooding up to Northern Ireland via the Republic to load up on American chlorinated chicken or £10 a pack B&H, or an army of illegal migrants preferring to go via Dublin.The Customs Union idea that seems to be gathering momentum would largely prevent the N.I. issue/need for the backstop that we requested, but gives us less freedom than May’s plan.
So just keep the border as it is.
Accept that a few people a few miles either side will border hop for fuel etc, and get on with it.
The best I've been able to get from Remainers is that the EU has to have customs checks to protect its single market, though nobody seems to know from what. Or a vague possibility that the EU may in future lodge a complaint with the WTO to tackle some as yet unspecified issue relating to its customs procedures. Usually followed by a petulant reminder that it was Leave who wanted border controls so we couldn't possibly have an open border with Ireland. To which a Leaver might well respond that it's the EU that wanted peace, cooperation and open borders in Europe so it's a bit rich to now demand a border.
The fact that the obvious, elegant and zero effort idea has barely been discussed makes me fairly sure that these "negotiations" have been a sham from day one and the whole withdrawal agreement is no more than a diversion to make us either remain in the EU or lock us in to all the significant parts of the project while giving us blue passports and a few other tokens to keep those old duffers happy until the new generation of Europhile internationalists takes over. A dangerous delusion, but exactly the sort of dangerous delusion power mad dictators fall for.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's never going to happen so the answer is infinity as the discussion will keep rolling round perhaps dying sometimes to be resurrected every decade by a teenager studying the period and asking a question of a long since dead member Please not the death of any member on here is not something I want to happen it's just a fact of life
B'stard Child said:
It's never going to happen so the answer is infinity as the discussion will keep rolling round perhaps dying sometimes to be resurrected every decade by a teenager studying the period and asking a question of a long since dead member
Please not the death of any member on here is not something I want to happen it's just a fact of life
Just interested - how do you ask a question of a long since dead member ?Please not the death of any member on here is not something I want to happen it's just a fact of life
B'stard Child said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
FiF said:
This volume is surprisingly civil so far, good, please keep it up.
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