1995 Griffith 500 restoration
Discussion
Not pretty pictures but it shows the now secured relays, ecu and battery in position. The battery box is still secured from under the car but I can now remove the battery without having to get underneath and break the waterproof seals to the securing bolts. The red painted clamp on the front base of the battery box firmly secures the battery against a similar clamp on the other side of the battery. Remove the clamp and the battery will simply slide forwards.
Now I need to shorten the wiring to the fuse box that will be mounted in the glovebox to complete the better access to fuses and remaining relays. Picture below shows the true length of the wiring loom which if kept original is cable tied to all manner of things to try to shorten it. A few hours work there but it will keep the top of the battery free from any coiled up wiring. Once done I can finish off the mods to the electric window wiring circuits and tidy up the cables going into the doors with the new speaker cables all wrapped in new conduit. It’s the details that make the difference but they do take time.
Above shows the fuse box mounts within the glovebox. Basically I’ve cut up the original tvr glassfibre mount that’s used in the footwell.
Below is the fuse box, new fuses fitted mostly (as I ran out of certain sizes so will order a few more) and to the correct rating as per the tvr handbook. Interestingly my handbook shows the heated seat fuse and relay position now supplies a radiator fan. So I have separate fuses and relays for each of the 2 radiator cooling fans. I don’t have a dedicated spare for the heated seat elements I’ll be fitting. Bit of a pain as I found the cables underneath the centre console that would have supplied the seats.
The back of the fuse box uses 67 connections. I’ve ordered new ones ready to shorten that part of the wiring loom. I’ll be cutting approx 600mm off the length so a fair bit.
Last picture below of the fuse box inside the glovebox. It needs pushing forward about 15mm for perfect access to remove any fuse in the future. Once I’ve fixed that issue I’ll put a hole in the back of the glovebox to feed the wiring through.
Previously I’ve nearly fitted the fuse box in the glovebox. I then offered it up within the dash and found the glovebox didn’t open enough to allow easy access to the row of fuses……hmmm I thought!
So tried again with the fuses the other way round which makes more sense as it’s the same way round as the original position.
A bit more cutting and filing of the brackets and I’m happy with its position now.
The picture above just shows the space for the relays from a slightly lower position. To be honest I’ve never had the need to remove any of those ever. The ones that seem to play up are the ecu and fuel pump relays, which I assume is because they used to float around on top of the battery. Hopefully mounting the wiring securely will help the car to be more reliable. If not at least I can now get to the fuses and relays a little easier as and when any future issues arise.
I can now cut a suitable hole in the back of the glovebox for wiring access
So tried again with the fuses the other way round which makes more sense as it’s the same way round as the original position.
A bit more cutting and filing of the brackets and I’m happy with its position now.
The picture above just shows the space for the relays from a slightly lower position. To be honest I’ve never had the need to remove any of those ever. The ones that seem to play up are the ecu and fuel pump relays, which I assume is because they used to float around on top of the battery. Hopefully mounting the wiring securely will help the car to be more reliable. If not at least I can now get to the fuses and relays a little easier as and when any future issues arise.
I can now cut a suitable hole in the back of the glovebox for wiring access
RobXjcoupe said:
Polly Grigora said:
Thank you, didn’t even think about that. Perfect space for the heated seat circuit fuse 
So technically that circuit would be live without the ignition switched on but requires the window switch to be live to activate the relay to switch power to make the windows go up. I’m saying this out loud in case this is read in the future sometime.
Ideally we want zero live until the ignition is switched on. So I really want to find the main switched output and connect O to that.
If anyone could point me in that direction please. Saves myself a bit of time
Loubaruch said:
In my ignorance I thought that this Forum included assisting owners maintain their cars with unbiased information so pointing out problems with suppliers and TVR specialists must help in this regard. If one cannot mention poor service it is no wonder that many have now migrated to Facebook. Perhaps PH has now had its day!
Indeed 
So with a little help and a bit of testing myself I’ve found various switched lives. The one I’m going to use is connection R directly above connection O.
The spade connection makes it easier to loop and is the shortest possible route being as it’s live.
Now I can create the 3 switched main lives. Above I can fit a 30amp midi fuse and come off connection N for the window circuit. The hot start and heated seats will come off the top before the midi fuse and straight into 2 separate inline fuse holders. That way I still have perfect access to all fuses within the glove box.
So once the new terminals arrive I can now shorten the loom and add the extra circuits and wrap as one. Job for the weekend
RobXjcoupe said:
Ideally we want zero live until the ignition is switched on. So I really want to find the main switched output and connect O to that.
If anyone could point me in that direction please. Saves myself a bit of time
If I'm reading this correctly.....If anyone could point me in that direction please. Saves myself a bit of time
You want a switched unfused ignition supply for the terminal 30 contacts of the relays?
If the above is the case you would be over-loading the ignition switch and defeating the purpose of the relays. A main ignition relay would be needed to supply the relays you're adding
There's nothing wrong with permanent supplies to the terminal 30 contacts of relays and the supplies to the relays can be fused
If I'm reading this incorrectly.....Ignore me
Polly Grigora said:
RobXjcoupe said:
Ideally we want zero live until the ignition is switched on. So I really want to find the main switched output and connect O to that.
If anyone could point me in that direction please. Saves myself a bit of time
If I'm reading this correctly.....If anyone could point me in that direction please. Saves myself a bit of time
You want a switched unfused ignition supply for the terminal 30 contacts of the relays?
If the above is the case you would be over-loading the ignition switch and defeating the purpose of the relays. A main ignition relay would be needed to supply the relays you're adding
There's nothing wrong with permanent supplies to the terminal 30 contacts of relays and the supplies to the relays can be fused
If I'm reading this incorrectly.....Ignore me
So my thoughts were to only make the additional relays live once the ignition is turned on. So all terminals zero volts until the ignition is turned on.
I thought the main ignition relay would be the place to start. So that relay is supplied via an 80 amp fuse from the battery which is the main power supply from the battery.
Then once that relay is energised it supplies everything so to speak save 2 or 3 fused low current circuits.
I’m thinking once that relay is energised there must be another connection unfused I can tap into and then with appropriate sized fuses supply 3 additional circuits. My thinking is zero current drain in case those relays fail as once the ignition is turned off I just have alarm power, clock/radio memory and ecu memory feeding off the battery. Does that make sense.
I understand I can have a fused permanent live to the relays as technically they haven’t been energised so I’m thinking more a double pole switch. But in the case of the relay the permanent high current input and the low current switched input are both zero volts with the ignition off.
Does that make sense?
I thought the main ignition relay would be the place to start. So that relay is supplied via an 80 amp fuse from the battery which is the main power supply from the battery.
Then once that relay is energised it supplies everything so to speak save 2 or 3 fused low current circuits.
I’m thinking once that relay is energised there must be another connection unfused I can tap into and then with appropriate sized fuses supply 3 additional circuits. My thinking is zero current drain in case those relays fail as once the ignition is turned off I just have alarm power, clock/radio memory and ecu memory feeding off the battery. Does that make sense.
I understand I can have a fused permanent live to the relays as technically they haven’t been energised so I’m thinking more a double pole switch. But in the case of the relay the permanent high current input and the low current switched input are both zero volts with the ignition off.
Does that make sense?
Yes, thank you, good explanation, I understand everything above
A few thoughts......
Relays won't ever hold-in on their own as long as no moisture gets into them, the relay coils can't possibly short to the relay contacts and hold themselves in causing a permanent drain on the battery, water is what causes relays to hold-in
Using sealed relays is the solution if you're worried about battery drains from relays
I don't think it a good idea to be adding another relay into the starter solenoid switching circuit by powering a starter relay that you're planning on adding with the fusebox ignition relay, there's possibly already one immobiliser relay in the starter solenoid circuit, the less the better as far as the starter solenoid circuit goes, the more that's added the more the voltage-drop in the circuit
There's also the possibility of over-loading the fusebox and ignition relay with high starter solenoid current when the plunger begins to stick inside the core of the solenoid
Have you considered connecting the door mirrors supply to the wiper fuse to gain one free fuse in the fusebox? I doubt you'll be adjusting mirrors often and it's very doubtful you'd ever be adjusting mirrors while the wipers are running!
So looking for a suitable fuse rating, the lowest midi is 30amp. That’s too big for the heated seats circuit but I do need 30amps to supply the larger gauge power cable to operate the up windows circuit via the switched relays I’ve been fitting. I can then loop input power from connection L to connection O to make that circuit live via the 30 amp midi fuse and connection N.
So technically that circuit would be live without the ignition switched on but requires the window switch to be live to activate the relay to switch power to make the windows go up. I’m saying this out loud in case this is read in the future sometime.
Ideally we want zero live until the ignition is switched on. So I really want to find the main switched output and connect O to that.
If anyone could point me in that direction please. Saves myself a bit of timeCould you wire a single Mini Blade Fuse Holder across the above posts? A midi fuse isn't suitable for what you're wiring, midi fuses are slow-blow, needs to be a blade fuse
Anyway, have been routing through some Audi diagrams that show what loads Audi engineers have connected to the ignition relay, although the Audi fusebox is different to yours the ignition relay circuits within are the same
If I can't convince you to use permanent supplies to the relays that you're adding the following might be of some help
The following does prove that a good fusebox and ignition relay will cope with a highish load, I was thinking that you adding circuits to the ignition relay might damage the fusebox
M 75s Fog Light Relay Terminal 30 Supply Fused @ 15 Amp Page 7
M 75s Power Windows/Sunroof Control Unit, Heated Seats Page 7
F 15 25 Amp Radiator Cooling Fans Page 7
F 16 30 Amp Heated Screen Page 7
F 17 30 Amp Blower Motor Page 6
F 18 25 Amp Power Mirrors Page 8
Load Reduction Relay below
____________________________________
Relay Coil
Terminal 25 - Ignition Switch
Terminal 27 - 31 Earth
____________________________________
Relay Contacts
Terminal 24 - Battery +
Terminal 26 - Relayed Ignition Out To Fuses 15,16,17,18 and Block M Terminal 75s
A few thoughts......
Relays won't ever hold-in on their own as long as no moisture gets into them, the relay coils can't possibly short to the relay contacts and hold themselves in causing a permanent drain on the battery, water is what causes relays to hold-in
Using sealed relays is the solution if you're worried about battery drains from relays
I don't think it a good idea to be adding another relay into the starter solenoid switching circuit by powering a starter relay that you're planning on adding with the fusebox ignition relay, there's possibly already one immobiliser relay in the starter solenoid circuit, the less the better as far as the starter solenoid circuit goes, the more that's added the more the voltage-drop in the circuit
There's also the possibility of over-loading the fusebox and ignition relay with high starter solenoid current when the plunger begins to stick inside the core of the solenoid
Have you considered connecting the door mirrors supply to the wiper fuse to gain one free fuse in the fusebox? I doubt you'll be adjusting mirrors often and it's very doubtful you'd ever be adjusting mirrors while the wipers are running!
RobXjcoupe said:
RobXjcoupe said:
Polly Grigora said:
Thank you, didn’t even think about that. Perfect space for the heated seat circuit fuse So technically that circuit would be live without the ignition switched on but requires the window switch to be live to activate the relay to switch power to make the windows go up. I’m saying this out loud in case this is read in the future sometime.
Ideally we want zero live until the ignition is switched on. So I really want to find the main switched output and connect O to that.
If anyone could point me in that direction please. Saves myself a bit of time
Anyway, have been routing through some Audi diagrams that show what loads Audi engineers have connected to the ignition relay, although the Audi fusebox is different to yours the ignition relay circuits within are the same
If I can't convince you to use permanent supplies to the relays that you're adding the following might be of some help
The following does prove that a good fusebox and ignition relay will cope with a highish load, I was thinking that you adding circuits to the ignition relay might damage the fusebox
M 75s Fog Light Relay Terminal 30 Supply Fused @ 15 Amp Page 7
M 75s Power Windows/Sunroof Control Unit, Heated Seats Page 7
F 15 25 Amp Radiator Cooling Fans Page 7
F 16 30 Amp Heated Screen Page 7
F 17 30 Amp Blower Motor Page 6
F 18 25 Amp Power Mirrors Page 8
Load Reduction Relay below
____________________________________
Relay Coil
Terminal 25 - Ignition Switch
Terminal 27 - 31 Earth
____________________________________
Relay Contacts
Terminal 24 - Battery +
Terminal 26 - Relayed Ignition Out To Fuses 15,16,17,18 and Block M Terminal 75s
Edited by Polly Grigora on Wednesday 12th April 06:02
Meant to post this earlier
You're really going to town on the electrics and the job looks top class, am impressed with your decision to remove much cable by shortening the fusebox harness and terminating all cables with new terminals
TVR must have been planning to fit the fusebox on the roof
You're really going to town on the electrics and the job looks top class, am impressed with your decision to remove much cable by shortening the fusebox harness and terminating all cables with new terminals
TVR must have been planning to fit the fusebox on the roof
Polly Grigora said:
Meant to post this earlier
You're really going to town on the electrics and the job looks top class, am impressed with your decision to remove much cable by shortening the fusebox harness and terminating all cables with new terminals
TVR must have been planning to fit the fusebox on the roof
Thank you for taking the time to check things through. Putting the mirrors control circuit to the windscreen wipers is a good idea but I’m still short of two circuits. I read your posts this morning and have been thinking about it all day the pro’s and con’s so to speak. I think with the age of the components I’m using it would be best not to do as I first thought. I can create a bus bar across the midi fuse holder and take 3 circuits off that via a simple loop underneath from the main battery input. Job done. No extra strain on any other wiring what so ever then. I think that’s the sensible thing to do. So that’s now the plan with the extra wiring circuits You're really going to town on the electrics and the job looks top class, am impressed with your decision to remove much cable by shortening the fusebox harness and terminating all cables with new terminals
TVR must have been planning to fit the fusebox on the roof
Whilst thinking about wiring I had a whole workshop to use to make a couple of other bits to repair parts.
So further back in the thread I showed the issue I found after the new paint regarding the brass nut held within the glassfibre having been ripped out and not put back prior to a new coat of paint.
TVR fitted a crudely cut bit of rubber to hide that nut under the part that grubscrews the mirrors in place. So as glassfibre is messy… for me anyway, to refit that brass nut I’ve made a 3mm think nylon washer that will cover the repair and make it look neat. The idea is to seal that in place also to stop water getting under it. I’ve actually bought another owners machined parts to screw on top being the slightly extended versions of the part you grubscrew the mirrors to. Easier to fit the door mirrors if I ever get them back?! Pictures below saves myself the extra words
Simple and does the job I think. The passenger door doesn’t need any repairs but again with that black nylon washer in place it looks neat and factory fitted.
So further back in the thread I showed the issue I found after the new paint regarding the brass nut held within the glassfibre having been ripped out and not put back prior to a new coat of paint.
TVR fitted a crudely cut bit of rubber to hide that nut under the part that grubscrews the mirrors in place. So as glassfibre is messy… for me anyway, to refit that brass nut I’ve made a 3mm think nylon washer that will cover the repair and make it look neat. The idea is to seal that in place also to stop water getting under it. I’ve actually bought another owners machined parts to screw on top being the slightly extended versions of the part you grubscrew the mirrors to. Easier to fit the door mirrors if I ever get them back?! Pictures below saves myself the extra words
Simple and does the job I think. The passenger door doesn’t need any repairs but again with that black nylon washer in place it looks neat and factory fitted.
The other part I made this morning was another housing for the temperature gauge. The first one flew from the lathe as I tried to machine the back for the bulb holder. Wasn’t impressed as it was nearly finished. So started again and decided to mill the back instead to create a square shaped bulb holder rather than a round version via a 4 jaw Chuck in a lathe.
I haven’t fitted the bezel yet in case I need to do any adjustments to the sizes to fit in the new veneered dashboard. It’s a Pete Wiggins dash but I’ve asked for the gauges to have a recessed fit rather than stuck on top fit. Just to give that slight difference to match the buttons on the dash that are flush with the veneer.
I haven’t fitted the bezel yet in case I need to do any adjustments to the sizes to fit in the new veneered dashboard. It’s a Pete Wiggins dash but I’ve asked for the gauges to have a recessed fit rather than stuck on top fit. Just to give that slight difference to match the buttons on the dash that are flush with the veneer.
More bits I’ve made. This is the fuse between the battery and fuse box feed. Originally fed by two rather thin cables. Which I think would melt before blowing that 80amp fuse. Anyway made these brass cable terminals to use 2 8awg cables. I thought about a single 4awg but that isn’t rated for 80amps. Two 8awg cables are on the limit for 80amps. Better than original if still marginal.
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