Cerbera reliability beyond a joke
Discussion
Speaking for those of us who are longer term owners of the Cerbera, its time to blow the lid off of it's appalling reliability.
I have a 98 4.5 Cerbera which I have owned from new and is now at 24,400 miles.It's in for its 24,000 service at the moment and I can swallow the combined £1340 bill for the service and valve gap setting but the following additional items that need fixing should be a cautionary tale to prospective owners or low mileage owners.
1) Rears mounting studs have pulled out of both carbon fibre airboxes requiring rebonding
2) HT leads are arcing down to earth requiring a new set (if other manufacturers can make them last 10 years why not TVR)
3)Upper wishbone bushes on both sides require replacement (only done 4000 miles ago for goodness sake)
4)Gearbox mountings cracked
5)Starter motor constantly jamming requiring replacement (insist on a recon. I did and the dealer, under pressure, finally admitted to their existence at £150 versus £400 for a new one.)
6) N/s catalytic converter breaking up requiring replacement (it's unmarked so it's not impact damage or grounding - just a crap quality cat!!
7) Top and bottom diff mounting bushes shot causing severe knocking (again these were replaced only 4000 miles ago!!)
8)All 4 driveshaft CV gaiters perished and split.(the ones on my 120,000 mile 3year old Volvo C70GT are still perfect. Hven't TVR heard of quality modern neoprene)
Total bill for that lot -- £3400 including the service -- HA BLOODY HA!
Just to fill in the picture, paint is coming off the wheels in sheets and TVR couldn't care less. 700 miles ago the solenoid that operates the drivers door had to be replaced (£200) and at the same time the hubs were changed under the safety recall from TVR. These by the way were in a dangerous state.
2000 miles ago saw a replacement battery. Do it yourself, the identical make and model to the factory fit cost me £34 from the local factor. TVR want £100 fitted (what a joke!)
The front discs and pads have been changed 4 times under warranty due to warping and shudder, the last time at 15,000 miles - pretty good considering I don't use the car on track days and most of my miles are on motorways going down to Cornwall. The pads never even have 10% wear on them.AP racing sorted the last lot out and fitted new hub carriers as the tolerances on these are suspect and can cause out of tolerance run out on the whole carrier, hub and disc assembly. (out of interest these carriers appear to originate from a Jeep Cherokee according to AP. Pity the rest of the car is as agricultural.)
Throttle pots were replaced at 18,000 miles and the injection and throttle plates all reset (£450.)
The A/c and hearter control unit burnt out at 13,000 causing lots of smoke in the car (a bit off putting at speed) and due to incompetent fitting by Henley the loom feeding it chaffed and burnt out 1000 miles later.
Cam drive idler gear knocking from cold at 12,000 and reshimmed. (Actually it had been doing it for about 6000 miles but either the dealer was deaf or, as I suspect, TVR are trying like hell to avoid warranty claims as they are snowed under.
Wipers stopped self parking and a new motor fitted under warranty at around 6000 mile but the bloody thing did it again just 2000 miles later - another replacement.
Tacho was replaced at about 6000 as it steadfastly refused to climb above 5500 rpm
The front end was resprayed at 6000 miles due to terrible stone chipping.
Other than that, it has been trouble free.
Why do I stick with it. Well, the depreciation is best described as freefall so my £52,000 asset is now down to around £27,000 making replacement with anything interesting very expensive. It never used to be like that because Griffiths and Chimeras were better built and held together. My Griff500 cost £33,500 new and I sold it 18 months later and 16,000 miles for £31,000. The same story is true of my early 4.2 Cerbera (number 91) before the word got out. But now knowledge of TVR's appalling quality is now fairly widespread and this is driving residuals down. Be warned. The huge problems being experienced with tuscans and speed sixes in gereral is only going to exacerbate the problem.
Any comments from other troubled owners. Are there any genuinely satisfied long term owners out there?
I have a 98 4.5 Cerbera which I have owned from new and is now at 24,400 miles.It's in for its 24,000 service at the moment and I can swallow the combined £1340 bill for the service and valve gap setting but the following additional items that need fixing should be a cautionary tale to prospective owners or low mileage owners.
1) Rears mounting studs have pulled out of both carbon fibre airboxes requiring rebonding
2) HT leads are arcing down to earth requiring a new set (if other manufacturers can make them last 10 years why not TVR)
3)Upper wishbone bushes on both sides require replacement (only done 4000 miles ago for goodness sake)
4)Gearbox mountings cracked
5)Starter motor constantly jamming requiring replacement (insist on a recon. I did and the dealer, under pressure, finally admitted to their existence at £150 versus £400 for a new one.)
6) N/s catalytic converter breaking up requiring replacement (it's unmarked so it's not impact damage or grounding - just a crap quality cat!!
7) Top and bottom diff mounting bushes shot causing severe knocking (again these were replaced only 4000 miles ago!!)
8)All 4 driveshaft CV gaiters perished and split.(the ones on my 120,000 mile 3year old Volvo C70GT are still perfect. Hven't TVR heard of quality modern neoprene)
Total bill for that lot -- £3400 including the service -- HA BLOODY HA!
Just to fill in the picture, paint is coming off the wheels in sheets and TVR couldn't care less. 700 miles ago the solenoid that operates the drivers door had to be replaced (£200) and at the same time the hubs were changed under the safety recall from TVR. These by the way were in a dangerous state.
2000 miles ago saw a replacement battery. Do it yourself, the identical make and model to the factory fit cost me £34 from the local factor. TVR want £100 fitted (what a joke!)
The front discs and pads have been changed 4 times under warranty due to warping and shudder, the last time at 15,000 miles - pretty good considering I don't use the car on track days and most of my miles are on motorways going down to Cornwall. The pads never even have 10% wear on them.AP racing sorted the last lot out and fitted new hub carriers as the tolerances on these are suspect and can cause out of tolerance run out on the whole carrier, hub and disc assembly. (out of interest these carriers appear to originate from a Jeep Cherokee according to AP. Pity the rest of the car is as agricultural.)
Throttle pots were replaced at 18,000 miles and the injection and throttle plates all reset (£450.)
The A/c and hearter control unit burnt out at 13,000 causing lots of smoke in the car (a bit off putting at speed) and due to incompetent fitting by Henley the loom feeding it chaffed and burnt out 1000 miles later.
Cam drive idler gear knocking from cold at 12,000 and reshimmed. (Actually it had been doing it for about 6000 miles but either the dealer was deaf or, as I suspect, TVR are trying like hell to avoid warranty claims as they are snowed under.
Wipers stopped self parking and a new motor fitted under warranty at around 6000 mile but the bloody thing did it again just 2000 miles later - another replacement.
Tacho was replaced at about 6000 as it steadfastly refused to climb above 5500 rpm
The front end was resprayed at 6000 miles due to terrible stone chipping.
Other than that, it has been trouble free.
Why do I stick with it. Well, the depreciation is best described as freefall so my £52,000 asset is now down to around £27,000 making replacement with anything interesting very expensive. It never used to be like that because Griffiths and Chimeras were better built and held together. My Griff500 cost £33,500 new and I sold it 18 months later and 16,000 miles for £31,000. The same story is true of my early 4.2 Cerbera (number 91) before the word got out. But now knowledge of TVR's appalling quality is now fairly widespread and this is driving residuals down. Be warned. The huge problems being experienced with tuscans and speed sixes in gereral is only going to exacerbate the problem.
Any comments from other troubled owners. Are there any genuinely satisfied long term owners out there?
Come on what are you complaining about, before i start anybody whom criticises this thread better own / have owned a Cerby...
Cerby 1, blown engine, 3 speedos, suspension collapse, cat exploded, cv gaiters, 2 sets of warped front disks, new alarm system, major water ingress, bouncing bonnet and whistling windows & just 7K depreciation in 9 months / 6,000 miles
Cerby 2, differential x2, cracked front hubs, 2 sets of leaking shocks, new electronic door lock module, new oil gauge - it went in for its 24K service feeling A1 and came back with a bill for £2900 !!!
Again also had a Griff at one point and it was A1, cannot remember a single problem
In the end, and call me boring as i now need a 2.5 seat car, I bought a 996. By comparison it needs servicing only once every 12,000 miles and the last service cost me £176 all in (with valet and delivery / collection). It may cost me £100 a month more but it saves at least that every month in repair costs.
(please this is not an incitement to start a Porsche / TVR debate)
Ben
Cerby 1, blown engine, 3 speedos, suspension collapse, cat exploded, cv gaiters, 2 sets of warped front disks, new alarm system, major water ingress, bouncing bonnet and whistling windows & just 7K depreciation in 9 months / 6,000 miles
Cerby 2, differential x2, cracked front hubs, 2 sets of leaking shocks, new electronic door lock module, new oil gauge - it went in for its 24K service feeling A1 and came back with a bill for £2900 !!!
Again also had a Griff at one point and it was A1, cannot remember a single problem
In the end, and call me boring as i now need a 2.5 seat car, I bought a 996. By comparison it needs servicing only once every 12,000 miles and the last service cost me £176 all in (with valet and delivery / collection). It may cost me £100 a month more but it saves at least that every month in repair costs.
(please this is not an incitement to start a Porsche / TVR debate)
Ben
In mitigation, I do have 3 other problems I have neglected to mention, simply because thet haven't cost time and money yet. A slight oil leak from the diff. A slight oil leak from the front gearbox seal inside the bellhousing and a tiny weep of water from the rear of the right hand cylinder head gasket. None seem to be getting any worse over the last 6000 miles so fingers crossed.
I think you have hit on the right solution. The Porsche may not have the emotion or soul of the Cerbera. Nor may it have the ultimate performance but at least it will run on and on and on.I'm thinking of getting another Griff500 - very late one as my son at 6ft doesn't fit the back anymore. Like yours, my Griff was trouble free, went as well as you can practically use in the real world (I grew out of the traffic light grand prix stage by the time I was 12)and apart from scaring me witless whenever it rained, was a hoot to drive.
By the way, deep sympathy for your tales of woe. My 4.2 was a bit like that but luckily I sold it before anyone outside of TVR and the dealer network knew of the problems
I think you have hit on the right solution. The Porsche may not have the emotion or soul of the Cerbera. Nor may it have the ultimate performance but at least it will run on and on and on.I'm thinking of getting another Griff500 - very late one as my son at 6ft doesn't fit the back anymore. Like yours, my Griff was trouble free, went as well as you can practically use in the real world (I grew out of the traffic light grand prix stage by the time I was 12)and apart from scaring me witless whenever it rained, was a hoot to drive.
By the way, deep sympathy for your tales of woe. My 4.2 was a bit like that but luckily I sold it before anyone outside of TVR and the dealer network knew of the problems
Having owned a Cerb I know what you say is true. Mine would have cost £2300 if the dealer hadn't swallowed the warranty work. Here is my solution and final conclusion.
1. buy from a dealer,have a warranty and a relationship with the dealer that means he will honour it. (not easy, but I managed it)
2.remember that it outperforms ANYTHING except a Mclaren f1 and that costs £500,000.
3. Smirking clever dicks like benno have paid twice what you have to only get half the attention you get from people and the other half pulling w*nker signs at them and running keys down their yuppie mobile!!
Nice car benno, but ultimately characterless and more importantly bloody German!! (excluding Christof of course!!)
by the way john I had a Griff too and have ordered a Tamora hoping it's as user friendly and cost effective as my Cerb was. I still loved the car though, it was great to drive.
Edited by flasher on Wednesday 19th December 17:05
Edited by flasher on Wednesday 19th December 17:07
1. buy from a dealer,have a warranty and a relationship with the dealer that means he will honour it. (not easy, but I managed it)
2.remember that it outperforms ANYTHING except a Mclaren f1 and that costs £500,000.
3. Smirking clever dicks like benno have paid twice what you have to only get half the attention you get from people and the other half pulling w*nker signs at them and running keys down their yuppie mobile!!
Nice car benno, but ultimately characterless and more importantly bloody German!! (excluding Christof of course!!)
by the way john I had a Griff too and have ordered a Tamora hoping it's as user friendly and cost effective as my Cerb was. I still loved the car though, it was great to drive.
Edited by flasher on Wednesday 19th December 17:05
Edited by flasher on Wednesday 19th December 17:07
Flasher - will Benno have paid twice as much when you take into acccount the running costs and decpreciation of a Cerbera over 3 years! It's whole life cost that counts not just the list price. And benno didn't seem to be smirking to me - more like providing the sort of real life info that is useful to people.
BTW I know what you mean about the hostility of people towards porsches - rented a Boxster when deciding on a car and have never had so much abuse!! Quite the oppsosite for the TVR and Elise I hired.
PS Please lets not get into 'TVR drivers are great Porsche drivers are w**kers' NOT constructive or informative.
Edited by hoganscrogan on Wednesday 19th December 17:13
BTW I know what you mean about the hostility of people towards porsches - rented a Boxster when deciding on a car and have never had so much abuse!! Quite the oppsosite for the TVR and Elise I hired.
PS Please lets not get into 'TVR drivers are great Porsche drivers are w**kers' NOT constructive or informative.
Edited by hoganscrogan on Wednesday 19th December 17:13
No Cerbie owner... but still scares the sh*t out of me. It basically means you need a rather deep wallet before venturing down the Cerbie route... Shame this is the wife's favourite TVR !
... I'll just go out and hug that large tree
Cheerio
Roms
Antigua Blue Chimaera 450
MCC Smart Passion Grey with Bungee Red interior ;o)
... I'll just go out and hug that large tree
Cheerio
Roms
Antigua Blue Chimaera 450
MCC Smart Passion Grey with Bungee Red interior ;o)
quote:
Flasher - will Benno have paid twice as much when you take into acccount the running costs and decpreciation of a Cerbera over 3 years! It's whole life cost that counts not just the list price.
BTW I know what you mean about the hostility of people towards porsches - rented a Boxster when deciding on a car and have never had so much abuse!! Quite the oppsosite for the TVR and Elise I hired.
PS Please lets not get into 'TVR drivers are great Porsche drivers are w**kers' NOT constructive or informative.
Edited by hoganscrogan on Wednesday 19th December 17:10
I wasn't implying that at all. I was talking about public perception and reaction, particularly at places like Le Mans.
I NEVER compare them because they are IMO completely different cars.
996 is loovely but I found benno's car when I had a spin, a bit characterless.
each to their own pal.
quote:
3. Smirking clever dicks like benno have paid twice what you have to only get half the attention you get from people and the other half pulling w*nker signs at them and running keys down their yuppie mobile!!
So who is bothered about getting attention because of the car you drive ,
"Smirking clever dicks like benno have paid twice what you have to only get half the attention you get from people and the other half pulling w*nker signs at them and running keys down their yuppie mobile!! "
For the record I paid £41,000 for my 2 year old 996, that makes it the same price as bog standard 4.2 or S6. In reality the Porsche gets a full leather interior, air con, 18" alloys and pearl/metallic paint as standard, add those options to the new Cerby and it becomes 48K!
No w*nker signs, just appreciative looks so far....
PS before you criticise take a look in the back of Evo (best roadster, best GT, best supercar)
Ben
For the record I paid £41,000 for my 2 year old 996, that makes it the same price as bog standard 4.2 or S6. In reality the Porsche gets a full leather interior, air con, 18" alloys and pearl/metallic paint as standard, add those options to the new Cerby and it becomes 48K!
No w*nker signs, just appreciative looks so far....
PS before you criticise take a look in the back of Evo (best roadster, best GT, best supercar)
Ben
Factually (not emotively) one of the best indicators of true whole life cost is to compare fully maintained (including all servicing, repairs, tyres, batteries, etc)leasing costs on say a 3 yr 36,000, 45,000 mile and 60,000 mile contract (i.e 12K 15K or 20K per annum). I have done so when looking at viable alternatives and the results may surprise you.
At 12K/p.a. the Cerbera is on average only slightly cheaper than a 996(non turbo of course) by around 5%
At 15K/p.a it is significantly more than the 996 and at 20K p.a nobody will touch the Cerbera with a barge pole whereas the 996 will be happily quoted at up to 30K miles p.a.. Can we keep discussions on topic and factual rather than emotive. I'm genuinely trying to get some idea of other Cerbera owners experiences, not get into comparisons, heresay or "my willy is bigger than your willy" discussions. Thanks guys and girls.
At 12K/p.a. the Cerbera is on average only slightly cheaper than a 996(non turbo of course) by around 5%
At 15K/p.a it is significantly more than the 996 and at 20K p.a nobody will touch the Cerbera with a barge pole whereas the 996 will be happily quoted at up to 30K miles p.a.. Can we keep discussions on topic and factual rather than emotive. I'm genuinely trying to get some idea of other Cerbera owners experiences, not get into comparisons, heresay or "my willy is bigger than your willy" discussions. Thanks guys and girls.
quote:
Actually yes, it was TVR's responsibility. They paid for the respray after inspection when they determined that the paint thickness was way too great causing brittleness and subsequent lack of adhesion.
Excellent - I'll have to remember that one, next time I'm at my dealer I'll see if I can get a complimentary nose job!
Rich...
"In mitigation, I do have 3 other problems I have neglected to mention, simply because thet haven't cost time and money yet. A slight oil leak from the diff. A slight oil leak from the front gearbox seal inside the bellhousing and a tiny weep of water from the rear of the right hand cylinder head gasket"
You should get these looked at ASAP, mine had only a slight oil leak from the diff, but when on the move it leaked a bit, until gradually no oil and knackered diff. After just 3 months of wonership it finally went in for an oil seal and it turned out to need an entire replacement diff..
Sounds like the other 2 are engine out jobs too, and not sure but it always used to be the case that for even small leaks the whole engine had to go back to the factory??????
Come on guys when somebody says the P word, it is not an incitement to riot, need to open eyes a bit and cast aside prejudices...my point is simply that you should not have to spend 40-50K on a car and then put up with a sh*t load of problems and massive expense during the first 3 years of ownership.
Ben
QUESTION - WHY IS IT THAT A TVR'S PAINTWORK CAN BE MORE SHAGGED WITH STONECHIPS AFTER 6K MILES THAN A NORMAL CAR AFTER 100K ??
Edited by bennno on Wednesday 19th December 18:01
You should get these looked at ASAP, mine had only a slight oil leak from the diff, but when on the move it leaked a bit, until gradually no oil and knackered diff. After just 3 months of wonership it finally went in for an oil seal and it turned out to need an entire replacement diff..
Sounds like the other 2 are engine out jobs too, and not sure but it always used to be the case that for even small leaks the whole engine had to go back to the factory??????
Come on guys when somebody says the P word, it is not an incitement to riot, need to open eyes a bit and cast aside prejudices...my point is simply that you should not have to spend 40-50K on a car and then put up with a sh*t load of problems and massive expense during the first 3 years of ownership.
Ben
QUESTION - WHY IS IT THAT A TVR'S PAINTWORK CAN BE MORE SHAGGED WITH STONECHIPS AFTER 6K MILES THAN A NORMAL CAR AFTER 100K ??
Edited by bennno on Wednesday 19th December 18:01
Roms,
A few of the leasing companies you will find in the ads of the back of CAR, Top Gear, Performance Car and the like usually show non-maintained lease figures for the Chimera. Do what I did a year ago, bash the phone and ask a number of them to prepare maintained and non-maintained quotes for Chimeras, Cerberas etc. They are usually happy to oblige (after they finish laughing).
If my memory serves me well, a fully maintained 4.5 Chimera on a 3+35 20K p.a. business lease contract was around £880/month. A 4.5 Cerbera on 20K was up at around £1400/month. Remember, these are business leases which exclude VAT and require a 3 month lease initial payment
A few of the leasing companies you will find in the ads of the back of CAR, Top Gear, Performance Car and the like usually show non-maintained lease figures for the Chimera. Do what I did a year ago, bash the phone and ask a number of them to prepare maintained and non-maintained quotes for Chimeras, Cerberas etc. They are usually happy to oblige (after they finish laughing).
If my memory serves me well, a fully maintained 4.5 Chimera on a 3+35 20K p.a. business lease contract was around £880/month. A 4.5 Cerbera on 20K was up at around £1400/month. Remember, these are business leases which exclude VAT and require a 3 month lease initial payment
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