Cerbera reliability beyond a joke
Discussion
I think that the general unease about the speed six and ajp8 engines, even on a TVR-loving forum like this, is so bad that if I were Peter Wheeler, I would do something about it.
The trouble is, there is no possibility to guage the extent of the problem, because we don't know numbers.
I'm sorry if this offends, but considering the way I drive - long stints on the continent, 40000 miles per annum - I wouldn't touch a Cerb with a bargepole.
It sounds to me like the best way to approach TVR ownership would be via a Chim. But I don't like the roadholding of the Chims.
Where does all this leave the Tamora? Its obviously a brilliant car, but its got the speed six engine - which brings me back to the first point.
Mind you, in EVO COTY, the mini broke down, the Vanquish sort of broke down, the Porker occasionally blew out clouds of smoke, and the Pagani got stuck in 4th gear. The Tamora was picked up from a track day, thrashed to Italy, thrashed around Italy for 4 days, and then hammered back to Blackpool, and performed flawlessly.
I just cannot afford to have a car that breaks down on me often ...
Rgds, WalterU
The trouble is, there is no possibility to guage the extent of the problem, because we don't know numbers.
I'm sorry if this offends, but considering the way I drive - long stints on the continent, 40000 miles per annum - I wouldn't touch a Cerb with a bargepole.
It sounds to me like the best way to approach TVR ownership would be via a Chim. But I don't like the roadholding of the Chims.
Where does all this leave the Tamora? Its obviously a brilliant car, but its got the speed six engine - which brings me back to the first point.
Mind you, in EVO COTY, the mini broke down, the Vanquish sort of broke down, the Porker occasionally blew out clouds of smoke, and the Pagani got stuck in 4th gear. The Tamora was picked up from a track day, thrashed to Italy, thrashed around Italy for 4 days, and then hammered back to Blackpool, and performed flawlessly.
I just cannot afford to have a car that breaks down on me often ...
Rgds, WalterU
quote:
Any competent and skilled team of mechanical engineers given access to a powerful enough design computer
That really interest me, John:
Do TVRs are conceived throught the use of CAD programs?
Uptil now, I thought the Blackpool gang conceived their cars with no any computer help (and they were rather proud of that)
I agree with all of what you say john.
A couple of points though. I love TVR's (I think that's obvious!!) I think Porsche's are a great sportscar too. Just not my bag.
However, I don't defend them just for the sake of it. I sold my Cerbie when I was made redundant and although I now have another job, I ordered a Tamora because the Cerbera is IMO too expensive to run. IMO There are two factors here. The first being that TVR's quality control is shamefull at times and their parts prices for Cerberas are an absolute piss-take. Have a look at the parts list on TMS website and you will see what I mean. My main reason for getting a new car is so it has a warranty and they fix it when I want it fixed without hassle.
My next annoyance is the dealers themselves. Without naming them,although I would love to, 90% of them are crap. How any of them can justify not giving you another car when your £50,000 car has been sent back to Blackpool is beyond me. No other car dealer would treat it's customers so badly. If your'e car does have to return to Blackpool it would make the whole thing a lot better and easier to accept if the dealer gave you another TVR while it was there. If they don't do that then don't buy a bloody car from them, it's as simple as that.
My last point is that I do think there are Friday afternoon cars. OK benno so my Cerb did have to have a new clutch and a new alternator but otherwise it was a fabulous car and "a good one" Your 4.2 which inspired me to get mine was very problematic and I fully understand why you sold it. I was disappointed, because it was a laugh going to Le Mans together in them , but I know why you got rid of it.
Finally, I deal with TMS because they treat me very well and I like their enthusiasm and attitude to customers. Brooklands were superb when my Cerbie lost its clutch.
A couple of points though. I love TVR's (I think that's obvious!!) I think Porsche's are a great sportscar too. Just not my bag.
However, I don't defend them just for the sake of it. I sold my Cerbie when I was made redundant and although I now have another job, I ordered a Tamora because the Cerbera is IMO too expensive to run. IMO There are two factors here. The first being that TVR's quality control is shamefull at times and their parts prices for Cerberas are an absolute piss-take. Have a look at the parts list on TMS website and you will see what I mean. My main reason for getting a new car is so it has a warranty and they fix it when I want it fixed without hassle.
My next annoyance is the dealers themselves. Without naming them,although I would love to, 90% of them are crap. How any of them can justify not giving you another car when your £50,000 car has been sent back to Blackpool is beyond me. No other car dealer would treat it's customers so badly. If your'e car does have to return to Blackpool it would make the whole thing a lot better and easier to accept if the dealer gave you another TVR while it was there. If they don't do that then don't buy a bloody car from them, it's as simple as that.
My last point is that I do think there are Friday afternoon cars. OK benno so my Cerb did have to have a new clutch and a new alternator but otherwise it was a fabulous car and "a good one" Your 4.2 which inspired me to get mine was very problematic and I fully understand why you sold it. I was disappointed, because it was a laugh going to Le Mans together in them , but I know why you got rid of it.
Finally, I deal with TMS because they treat me very well and I like their enthusiasm and attitude to customers. Brooklands were superb when my Cerbie lost its clutch.
quote:
How any of them can justify not giving you another car when your £50,000 car has been sent back to Blackpool is beyond me. No other car dealer would treat it's customers so badly.
Now not being a TVR owner is one thing and you'll never see me on here saying 'they handle like this ... or that... ' because I am not qualified to comment – but owner or not, I can comment on flashers car lending experience as above.
To be spending that amount of money on a specialised sportscar and then extra on servicing, parts etc and not be offered a car while yours in is is one thing but not to be offered another car AT ALL when yours has to be returned to its birthplace is SCANDALOUS!
Presume that the dealers just don't have the motors standing there (not just TVRs) to be able to give them out for a day. Wonder what costs for them are borne by the factory when a TVR is returned? I'll wager not much.
When these cars are returned to the factory anyone have any idea on the average wait? Obviously to a large extent down to the engine problems.
TVR owner one day (after Christmas)
Mikey
I agree and think it's an absolute disgrace that some dealers behave like that. I'm happy to say that my dealer(TMS) doesn't and I have always had a decent courtesy car. Normal average time back at Blackpool is around 6 weeks, I think. If my Tamora plays up, and I'm praying it wont, then I will expect as a matter of course to get a replacement car when it's away.
Otherwise I would go up there and *****g
steal one!!!!
Team Central were always good for giving you a car, even if it was a Ford Ka.
How can they not give you a car?? What if your TVR WAS your everyday motor?
I just can't believe that some of these dealers can behave like they do...
I agree and think it's an absolute disgrace that some dealers behave like that. I'm happy to say that my dealer(TMS) doesn't and I have always had a decent courtesy car. Normal average time back at Blackpool is around 6 weeks, I think. If my Tamora plays up, and I'm praying it wont, then I will expect as a matter of course to get a replacement car when it's away.
Otherwise I would go up there and *****g
steal one!!!!
Team Central were always good for giving you a car, even if it was a Ford Ka.
How can they not give you a car?? What if your TVR WAS your everyday motor?
I just can't believe that some of these dealers can behave like they do...
In case of doubt, I should start by saying that I do actually like driving TVR's very very much - I've had 4 for goodness sake. I just hate owning them!! I'm just a glutton for punishment and disillusionment is now setting in after 9 years of ownership.
I see both Flasher and Martin Hunt have had good experiences with Brooklands too. I have often thought about giving them a try based on my good experience described in a previous post. They are only 60 miles from our second home in North Cornwall (yeah I know lucky/flash sod!! and before anyone asks, yes, I have often thought of selling it to finance a Diablo/Vantage/F40/Speed Twelve/etc.)Wife might object though. Anyone else out there with good (or bad) experiences of Brooklands?
p.s Only joking about the Speed Twelve. If they can't get a reasonable volume car right, think what a b***s up they must make of that!!
I see both Flasher and Martin Hunt have had good experiences with Brooklands too. I have often thought about giving them a try based on my good experience described in a previous post. They are only 60 miles from our second home in North Cornwall (yeah I know lucky/flash sod!! and before anyone asks, yes, I have often thought of selling it to finance a Diablo/Vantage/F40/Speed Twelve/etc.)Wife might object though. Anyone else out there with good (or bad) experiences of Brooklands?
p.s Only joking about the Speed Twelve. If they can't get a reasonable volume car right, think what a b***s up they must make of that!!
Latest update - collected car this evening following 24000 service and various maladies and......... it's about the best it's been since new.
No clattering - cams reshimmed
No stuttering - new HT leads
No tinny rattles - new catalyst
No rear end knocking - new axle bushes
No wandering - new wishbone bushes
And what's more goes like it should.
Best news of all, I got a bit firm about the front wishbones suggesting that legal action was on the cards and lo and behold, bushes supplied free and the 2 hours labour knocked off the bill. That plus further niggles over claimed job times - like wanting 2 hours to change the starter when the top of the engine is already off and access is easy, resulted in a reduction from around £3570 to £3218 - a result!! Its still far too much though and I just keep my fingers crossed that the whole plot holds together so the 30000 service is less painful.
Off to Cornwall now for a 200 mile shakedown and the Christmas holidays. Merry Christmas to you all and thanks for the positive e-mails you have sent me. Lets keep the thread going because I believe it's in all our interests to separate fact from fantasy
Cheers
No clattering - cams reshimmed
No stuttering - new HT leads
No tinny rattles - new catalyst
No rear end knocking - new axle bushes
No wandering - new wishbone bushes
And what's more goes like it should.
Best news of all, I got a bit firm about the front wishbones suggesting that legal action was on the cards and lo and behold, bushes supplied free and the 2 hours labour knocked off the bill. That plus further niggles over claimed job times - like wanting 2 hours to change the starter when the top of the engine is already off and access is easy, resulted in a reduction from around £3570 to £3218 - a result!! Its still far too much though and I just keep my fingers crossed that the whole plot holds together so the 30000 service is less painful.
Off to Cornwall now for a 200 mile shakedown and the Christmas holidays. Merry Christmas to you all and thanks for the positive e-mails you have sent me. Lets keep the thread going because I believe it's in all our interests to separate fact from fantasy
Cheers
quote:
Ted,
Why is it that if you try to stimulate some debate, you get binned?
You have got to admit many of the threads get a bit tedious with stuff like, 'my wife has a prosthetic limb and I have a moustache and a squint - do you think we should buy a Cerbera or a Tuscan, and in which colour?'
Please dont bin this one, a bit of humour livens up some of the coversations in these threads.
Benno
Edited by bennno on Saturday 22 December 00:09
quote:
Chaps,
...I am trying to get some genuine comments from owners / past-owners as to why they are prepared to put up with the pain of the ownership.... However, if they are proving to be such a pain, why put up with them? Or put the question another way - how much pain are you prepared to put up with for the car? or another way - does the pleasure outweigh the pain? etc etc etc etc....
Paul
Paul,
I often wonder the same myself. The car is fantastic. If it ever dies, I would be gutted. I am willing to put up with it being out of commission for upto 6 weeks a year. But I have other vehicles (even though I use this one the most).
To me, the appeal is in it's beautiful form, fantastic performance, and so many simple elements that I can understand. There isn't too much complicated computer-controlled stuff and I can just look and understand what is happening in the linkages, etc. And the maintenance software does allow me understand what is happening in the ecu to some extent as well.
I have often said that if it stopped and never ran again, I'd be happy to just keep it to look at. Now that's not true. It's not a painting, and to be truly appreciated, it needs to be driven and have its capabilities exploited, not put on a pedestal. Complete appreciation requires even more mechanical understanding. It's great fun trying to get there. I read as much about the engine as I can, and I don't understand it most of the time, but the entire process is to be savoured. And I have learnt a lot about all sorts of cars and the car industry and the racing scene and automotive technology through the pursuit of this hobby. Not to mention having made friends worldwide, and getting absolute red carpet treatment everywhere I go--a completely unexpected bonus. I honestly bought the car thinking it was far more understated than a Ferrari or Lamborghini.
So that's the appeal. I am really into it!
Rgds,
Faisal.
Edited by faisalkhan on Saturday 22 December 03:01
First of all let me say that this is a very informative thread (the parts about the cars) that has done the opposite to what many of you may think. It has reinforced my need to buy a Cerbi.
Secondly I don't know what you are all whinging about.
Owning a Cerb would be like winning the Lottery for me.
I know I only own a lowly Rover 620 Ti so you may scoff at my input to this thread but you bitch as though the Cerb is a special case.
In the past 18 months I have spent over six grand on repairs and maintenance on my Rover and I still love it to death. These include a new clutch, two full sets of brake disks and pads due to warping, baring, tyres, wheels, suspension, repair costs due to a merry little trip it took on its own after the hand brake cable snapped, oil leeks, exhausts (2 of), fuel leek and power steering leek. Oh and a new radiator.
I know it 'slow', fat, unwieldy, ugly, unreliable and has a special hook to hold my cloth cap on in a safe yet easily reachable position, but it is my lover, it is my pride and joy, it is my reason to work. And it’s a bloody Rover for God’s sake!
I adore the power (200bhp - don't laugh), the comfort and the anonymity it gives me. I am only 21 and have had it since I was late 19 but I bought it for a reason - to enjoy it (and the asking price was a bargain)!
I know I would not be able to match the asking price of a Cerb yet (but I do hope to soon) but by reading these threads it comes as quite a surprise to see that the Rover has had similar - if not more expensive - maintenance / running costs than many of your Cerbs.
I am not insulting you; just questioning your passion and devotion. For Christ’s sake, I would be in awe of that car every time I set eyes on it and would feel privileged every time I climbed into the cockpit. I think you have become numb to the ability that this car has and you take it for granted. You have to realise it is a mechanical masterpiece - as are Porkers / Raris ETC.
What I am trying to say is love it, cherish it and FORGIVE IT - I do with my crappy old Rover but you damn well should with your beautiful Cerbs / Porkers / SuperModels (in my experience women a far, far more expensive than ANY car anyway) / ETC,
As for crappy dealers, well that's another story.
Secondly I don't know what you are all whinging about.
Owning a Cerb would be like winning the Lottery for me.
I know I only own a lowly Rover 620 Ti so you may scoff at my input to this thread but you bitch as though the Cerb is a special case.
In the past 18 months I have spent over six grand on repairs and maintenance on my Rover and I still love it to death. These include a new clutch, two full sets of brake disks and pads due to warping, baring, tyres, wheels, suspension, repair costs due to a merry little trip it took on its own after the hand brake cable snapped, oil leeks, exhausts (2 of), fuel leek and power steering leek. Oh and a new radiator.
I know it 'slow', fat, unwieldy, ugly, unreliable and has a special hook to hold my cloth cap on in a safe yet easily reachable position, but it is my lover, it is my pride and joy, it is my reason to work. And it’s a bloody Rover for God’s sake!
I adore the power (200bhp - don't laugh), the comfort and the anonymity it gives me. I am only 21 and have had it since I was late 19 but I bought it for a reason - to enjoy it (and the asking price was a bargain)!
I know I would not be able to match the asking price of a Cerb yet (but I do hope to soon) but by reading these threads it comes as quite a surprise to see that the Rover has had similar - if not more expensive - maintenance / running costs than many of your Cerbs.
I am not insulting you; just questioning your passion and devotion. For Christ’s sake, I would be in awe of that car every time I set eyes on it and would feel privileged every time I climbed into the cockpit. I think you have become numb to the ability that this car has and you take it for granted. You have to realise it is a mechanical masterpiece - as are Porkers / Raris ETC.
What I am trying to say is love it, cherish it and FORGIVE IT - I do with my crappy old Rover but you damn well should with your beautiful Cerbs / Porkers / SuperModels (in my experience women a far, far more expensive than ANY car anyway) / ETC,
As for crappy dealers, well that's another story.
The 620ti is a bit of a laugh if you ask me... the looks are rather cloth-cap-and-slippers, but by ordinary standards, it goes like stink, and NO-ONE EXPECTS IT TO. The chassis also lets you deploy the power very easily in situations that might see drivers of more powerful cars backing off in caution, eyeing the hedgerow suspiciously (i.e. me).
And christ, you've got one at 21! I was still driving a 1.6 Sierra at that age.
And christ, you've got one at 21! I was still driving a 1.6 Sierra at that age.
No, I got it at 19, I am now 21.
My girlfirend says I'm mad spending what I do on it - maybee I am - but I am having a bloody great time and that is my point - sports car ownership is a labour of love - commonly an expensive one - but not unexpected.
Be happy, you bunch of lucky bastards! You could swap your Cerbis with my Ti?????
No?
I'll get me coat (and trilby).
My girlfirend says I'm mad spending what I do on it - maybee I am - but I am having a bloody great time and that is my point - sports car ownership is a labour of love - commonly an expensive one - but not unexpected.
Be happy, you bunch of lucky bastards! You could swap your Cerbis with my Ti?????
No?
I'll get me coat (and trilby).
Nowt wrong with a 620ti Spandexx. I always loved the whole Q car thing. I have had a Chim 4.3 but have also had 2 800 vitesses (both with the turbo engine, not the V6) The last one was the 200bhp vitesse sport. I thought they were both GREAT! I did over 100k miles in each and they never broke down. Sure, some things rattled and the exhaust systems lasted 10 minutes, but they only cost pittance to service and I liked being different to my colleagues who "sheep like" all bought BMWs and Audis.
One more thing for you cerbie owners who reckon yours is the only sob story out there.
Got my new car in March 2001. Since then the following:
Back to dealer 3 times for total loss of power when accelerating away from junctions : fault not found yet, despite 3 sets of engine software. It now drinks petrol like a fish!
Boot opens itself when it feels like it.
more rattles and squeeks than Mothercare
Faulty electric windows
Lots of electrical gremlins!
When hot, horrendous rattle from the top of the engine, really really loud. Dealer tried to tell me the noise didn't appear during his test drive and that I was probably just hearing the fuel injectors! Sounds more like the camshaft to me!
After small prang,(clipped kerb) dealer returned car with wheelbase half inch shorter on one side than the other! When I complained, they tried to tell me that they were all like that! Finally took car back for repair after we measured my colleagues car and found it to be symetrical. Dealer then found bent suspension part he had not changed during first repair.
Had car back last thursday and the front anti roll bar came loose on friday necessitating emergency trip to dealer yesterday to sort it!
Car wont start properly today!
Hands up all you who think my TVR is crap?
Well you are wrong. Mt TVR is actually 100% reliable. The car I was describing above is my company Volvo S60 turbo.
Seasons greeting men!
Andy TVR 400se, and proud of it
One more thing for you cerbie owners who reckon yours is the only sob story out there.
Got my new car in March 2001. Since then the following:
Back to dealer 3 times for total loss of power when accelerating away from junctions : fault not found yet, despite 3 sets of engine software. It now drinks petrol like a fish!
Boot opens itself when it feels like it.
more rattles and squeeks than Mothercare
Faulty electric windows
Lots of electrical gremlins!
When hot, horrendous rattle from the top of the engine, really really loud. Dealer tried to tell me the noise didn't appear during his test drive and that I was probably just hearing the fuel injectors! Sounds more like the camshaft to me!
After small prang,(clipped kerb) dealer returned car with wheelbase half inch shorter on one side than the other! When I complained, they tried to tell me that they were all like that! Finally took car back for repair after we measured my colleagues car and found it to be symetrical. Dealer then found bent suspension part he had not changed during first repair.
Had car back last thursday and the front anti roll bar came loose on friday necessitating emergency trip to dealer yesterday to sort it!
Car wont start properly today!
Hands up all you who think my TVR is crap?
Well you are wrong. Mt TVR is actually 100% reliable. The car I was describing above is my company Volvo S60 turbo.
Seasons greeting men!
Andy TVR 400se, and proud of it
Spandexx
You've got the wrong end of the stick methinks. Let's be honest here, in general Cerbera's are f****g expensive to run and fix, dealers will only support you so far and the factory are just slightly above useless.Add to that the fact that the warranty company are a complete disgrace.
No-one here including me is saying that we don't love TVR's. I adore them and have just ordered a new Tamora. I actually don't give a flying f**k whether they break down or not. But, and it's a huge but,I do think that TVR can and should make them more reliable and the parts cheaper and at the same time give their dealers the support (and bollockings) they need to provide us,as customers with a helpful and satisfactory conclusion to our problems. I don't think that's too much to ask.
As for buying a Cerbera. BUY ONE. It is without doubt the fastest, most attention getting, best sounding thrilling car I have ever owned. I would hate to put anyone off, but just be aware of what can happen if you don't know what you are buying and don't buy from a good dealer. If you are not sure what to do contact one of us lot,and we will help. Good luck!!
Edited by flasher on Monday 24th December 20:21
You've got the wrong end of the stick methinks. Let's be honest here, in general Cerbera's are f****g expensive to run and fix, dealers will only support you so far and the factory are just slightly above useless.Add to that the fact that the warranty company are a complete disgrace.
No-one here including me is saying that we don't love TVR's. I adore them and have just ordered a new Tamora. I actually don't give a flying f**k whether they break down or not. But, and it's a huge but,I do think that TVR can and should make them more reliable and the parts cheaper and at the same time give their dealers the support (and bollockings) they need to provide us,as customers with a helpful and satisfactory conclusion to our problems. I don't think that's too much to ask.
As for buying a Cerbera. BUY ONE. It is without doubt the fastest, most attention getting, best sounding thrilling car I have ever owned. I would hate to put anyone off, but just be aware of what can happen if you don't know what you are buying and don't buy from a good dealer. If you are not sure what to do contact one of us lot,and we will help. Good luck!!
Edited by flasher on Monday 24th December 20:21
I am a bit drunk so i will try not to make this too illiterate.
Flasher; I am in total agreement with you. TVR, even though they do make stunning cars, do need to buck their ideas up. The service / parts / reliability / etc should match their performance. I am only being a bit of a picky git when saying that you guys are a bunch of whinging gits, infact we ALL have a lot to whinge about - no car TVR, Rover, Volvo, ETC should be that poor after 5k miles or 65k miles.
Manufacturers have no excuse weather they are a small outfit in Blackpool or a multinational conglomerate; they should research their cars and parts fully before submitting them to the GP.
All I was sayiong was love your motor - you ARE privaliged and, to some extent, so am I.
Merry Christmas
A very drunk Spandexx!!!!!
P.S. Flasher; as for the Cerb i am f*****g working on it!!!!!
Flasher; I am in total agreement with you. TVR, even though they do make stunning cars, do need to buck their ideas up. The service / parts / reliability / etc should match their performance. I am only being a bit of a picky git when saying that you guys are a bunch of whinging gits, infact we ALL have a lot to whinge about - no car TVR, Rover, Volvo, ETC should be that poor after 5k miles or 65k miles.
Manufacturers have no excuse weather they are a small outfit in Blackpool or a multinational conglomerate; they should research their cars and parts fully before submitting them to the GP.
All I was sayiong was love your motor - you ARE privaliged and, to some extent, so am I.
Merry Christmas
A very drunk Spandexx!!!!!
P.S. Flasher; as for the Cerb i am f*****g working on it!!!!!
johnmckenzie said:
Latest update - collected car this evening following 24000 service and various maladies and......... it's about the best it's been since new.
No clattering - cams reshimmed
No stuttering - new HT leads
No tinny rattles - new catalyst
No rear end knocking - new axle bushes
No wandering - new wishbone bushes
And what's more goes like it should.
Best news of all, I got a bit firm about the front wishbones suggesting that legal action was on the cards and lo and behold, bushes supplied free and the 2 hours labour knocked off the bill. That plus further niggles over claimed job times - like wanting 2 hours to change the starter when the top of the engine is already off and access is easy, resulted in a reduction from around £3570 to £3218 - a result!! Its still far too much though and I just keep my fingers crossed that the whole plot holds together so the 30000 service is less painful.
Off to Cornwall now for a 200 mile shakedown and the Christmas holidays. Merry Christmas to you all and thanks for the positive e-mails you have sent me. Lets keep the thread going because I believe it's in all our interests to separate fact from fantasy
Cheers
and...?? (after how many years)No clattering - cams reshimmed
No stuttering - new HT leads
No tinny rattles - new catalyst
No rear end knocking - new axle bushes
No wandering - new wishbone bushes
And what's more goes like it should.
Best news of all, I got a bit firm about the front wishbones suggesting that legal action was on the cards and lo and behold, bushes supplied free and the 2 hours labour knocked off the bill. That plus further niggles over claimed job times - like wanting 2 hours to change the starter when the top of the engine is already off and access is easy, resulted in a reduction from around £3570 to £3218 - a result!! Its still far too much though and I just keep my fingers crossed that the whole plot holds together so the 30000 service is less painful.
Off to Cornwall now for a 200 mile shakedown and the Christmas holidays. Merry Christmas to you all and thanks for the positive e-mails you have sent me. Lets keep the thread going because I believe it's in all our interests to separate fact from fantasy
Cheers
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