How many tvr griffiths were made ?

How many tvr griffiths were made ?

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chris52

Original Poster:

1,437 posts

117 months

Wednesday 11th February 2009
quotequote all
I was wodering if anyone knows how many tvr griffths 500 were made, and how many do you estimate are still running and in the UK.
Just curious thats all lol

Chris

Toma500

1,008 posts

187 months

Wednesday 11th February 2009
quotequote all
chris52 said:
I was wodering if anyone knows how many tvr griffths 500 were made, and how many do you estimate are still running and in the UK.
Just curious thats all lol

Chris
At a guess about 1200 pre cats and say 1700 500s someone did have a comprehensive breakdown of the numbers for everything from the Griff onwards i think but i cant find it

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Found this though Look at V8GRF s post

Edited by Toma500 on Wednesday 11th February 20:44

AntonyJ

5,244 posts

215 months

Wednesday 11th February 2009
quotequote all
Toma500 said:
chris52 said:
I was wodering if anyone knows how many tvr griffths 500 were made, and how many do you estimate are still running and in the UK.
Just curious thats all lol

Chris
At a guess about 1200 pre cats and say 1700 500s someone did have a comprehensive breakdown of the numbers for everything from the Griff onwards i think but i cant find it

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Found this though Look at V8GRF s post

Edited by Toma500 on Wednesday 11th February 20:44
More like 660 precats...

Toma500

1,008 posts

187 months

Wednesday 11th February 2009
quotequote all
AntonyJ said:
Toma500 said:
chris52 said:
I was wodering if anyone knows how many tvr griffths 500 were made, and how many do you estimate are still running and in the UK.
Just curious thats all lol

Chris
At a guess about 1200 pre cats and say 1700 500s someone did have a comprehensive breakdown of the numbers for everything from the Griff onwards i think but i cant find it

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Found this though Look at V8GRF s post

Edited by Toma500 on Wednesday 11th February 20:44
More like 660 precats...
Yes Totally wrong as usual hehe

Edited by Toma500 on Wednesday 11th February 20:47

GJR

806 posts

214 months

Wednesday 11th February 2009
quotequote all
So that link suggests a figure of between 2,265 and 2,445 Griff's in total, but you often hear of much higher figures. I have an old TG clip 'End of the Griffith' with Tiff Needell stating that 4000+ Griff's were made, a figure that crops up again on a TVRCC web site ?!

4000 is a massive jump from other figures in the low to mid 2000's, so how could they have got it so wrong ?


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3024E

483 posts

119 months

Wednesday 11th February 2009
quotequote all
I get the impression that precats were around 1 in 3 to 500's,
but when you see griff's for sale now its more like 10 500's to every 1 precat,precats seem quite rare now how many are left, 400 ish ??????

Cant the tvr club contact the dvla????

how did landrover find out 78% of all landrovers made from 1952 are still on the road, there must be a way to find out

V8 GRF

7,276 posts

144 months

Wednesday 11th February 2009
quotequote all
GJR said:
So that link suggests a figure of between 2,265 and 2,445 Griff's in total, but you often hear of much higher figures. I have an old TG clip 'End of the Griffith' with Tiff Needell stating that 4000+ Griff's were made, a figure that crops up again on a TVRCC web site ?!

4000 is a massive jump from other figures in the low to mid 2000's, so how could they have got it so wrong ?
I've never heard the 4000 figure that's been quoted, so when did anyone give a throw away comment on a TV program any credence and that TVRCCOxford graph doesn't give any breakdown so at best is a guess. The table that Omerta has removed that I disputed the absolute accuracy of had a Griffith figure in and around the the figures above and research by a number of respected sources namely Mike Penny, Steve Heath and Roger Shackleton never puts the figure above 2,500 so that's the one I'd accept as the maximum.

How could they have got it so wrong? Well they didn't keep proper records for one thing and all Griffith, Chimaera and Cerbera chassis production numbers were all lumped together for another.

What's sure is that there's a whole lot fewer of them now. frown

ETA
Figures from the various sources I quoted above

Accurate Griffith, Chimaera and Cerbera figures are not known as all the chassis numbers were amalagamated and any figures are at best guesses as pointed out in 'The Bible and the TVR Griffith Story.

Take Griffiths for example, there's a range of numbers but according to Roger Shackletons book 'The TVR Griffith Story' there are two figures suggested with Neil Anderson in his foreword saying that his figures amount to 2,334.

Elsewhere Mike Penny says that when Classic cars ran a buying guide story in 2003 the figures they obtained were as follows.
4.x = 625
500s = 1640

Making a total of 2,265

Steve Heath in the 2nd edition of the 'bible' comes up with a figure of 2,445. This number has been estimated as production figures for Griffith Chimaera and Cerbera chassis were all combined with one another. The breakdown for that figure is given as 4.0ltr = 679, 4.3BV = 25, 4.5BV = 12, 5.0ltr = 1,629, 5.0SE = 100.

I think all figures are somewhere round or about but not exact.


Edited by V8 GRF on Thursday 12th February 00:09

chris52

Original Poster:

1,437 posts

117 months

Thursday 12th February 2009
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies to this topic. I must say i supprised by how low the figure is, I thought it would have been much higher given the fact that they were in production for so many years. So if the figure was say 2500 i would expect that at least 10% of these will have been exported and a further 25% will been damaged beyond repair so that leaves somewhere around 1500 or less still on the road today.

Chris

Uncle Fester

3,114 posts

142 months

Thursday 12th February 2009
quotequote all
I just spoke to the DVLA. They advised me that on their website is a list of companies who are licensed by them for the sale of anonymised data.

For a fee, one of these companies will supply statistical information.

They should be able to list how many are still registered and other information, but nothing that is personally identified.

I think this is really the province of the TVRCC, and probably a job for Richard to investigate for the archives.

I doubt that the available data goes back to the beginning in 1947, but we might be able get accurate numbers of each model UK registered in more recent years since computerisation.

They mentioned stuff like how many of each colour and so on. Probably how many of each engine capacity might be useful too.

Once we have the starting position, we only need to ask how many survive in subsequent years to maintain up to date information.

450Nick

3,892 posts

146 months

Thursday 12th February 2009
quotequote all
You probably want to ask Dom at TVR Power. He has lists of every engine built for TVR, and what car it was going into. He has all sorts of interesting info on how many of each car were built and what was done to each engine etc. Interestingly, the HC models were a mistake. Turns out that Rover cast a load of heads wrongly with too much compression. Rather than sending them back, they decided to call its the HC model! Then the 250bhp edition was another mistake involving even more badly cast heads with way too much compression. These apparently run around 12:1 compression! Anyway back on point, he'll know how many Griffs were built. Said he plans to write a book at some point answering all the questions from TVR history - should be a good read!

GJR

806 posts

214 months

Thursday 12th February 2009
quotequote all
450Nick said:
Interestingly, the HC models were a mistake. Turns out that Rover cast a load of heads wrongly with too much compression. Rather than sending them back, they decided to call its the HC model!
V8 GRF, I'm shocked to hear you suggest that TG would use a 'throw away comment' ?!? wink but they must have got their numbers from some where? Since that particular clip was filmed in Blackpool using the TVR development car you might assume ( maybe naively?!?!? ) that they would have got the figures from TVR themselves. Why would you dream up figures when you could ask TVR directly ? Also to see the same number on a TVRCC site is curious.

What ever the production numbers are (and those still on the road) it would be interesting to know. I remember a while back that someone did contact the DVLA about the numbers of TVR's on the road, and IIRC they were posted here, I'll have a search.... It would also be good to know once and for all whether HC means High Compression as indicated above, or High Cam as I'd always understood it ?





STEV8E

635 posts

143 months

Thursday 12th February 2009
quotequote all
Beat me to it, I was thinking high lift cam.

scratchchin

V8 GRF

7,276 posts

144 months

Thursday 12th February 2009
quotequote all
GJR said:
V8 GRF, I'm shocked to hear you suggest that TG would use a 'throw away comment' ?!? wink but they must have got their numbers from some where? Since that particular clip was filmed in Blackpool using the TVR development car you might assume ( maybe naively?!?!? ) that they would have got the figures from TVR themselves. Why would you dream up figures when you could ask TVR directly ? Also to see the same number on a TVRCC site is curious.

What ever the production numbers are (and those still on the road) it would be interesting to know. I remember a while back that someone did contact the DVLA about the numbers of TVR's on the road, and IIRC they were posted here, I'll have a search.... It would also be good to know once and for all whether HC means High Compression as indicated above, or High Cam as I'd always understood it ?
As I pointed out the figures I've quoted have all come from/via official TVR sources, I did dispute the 'absolute accuracy' of the figures in Omerta's table but they were still put together by TVR and where round about the figures quoted above and you don't get more official than Neil Anderson and Mike Penny do you?
We all know that some of the media don't like the facts to get in the way of a good story now do we? Like the Porsche that had to be pushed onto set 'cos it's clutch had gone when it was compared to a TVR, but still won the test.
The TVRCC site you refer to is a regional site, which is maintained by the local RO, no disrespect but I'd go with the more widely suggested numbers than a vague 'about 4000' It's always been widely suggested that the Chimaera outsold the Griff by about 3 to 1 and the accepted figure for Chims is about 6,500 iirc.

Like you say though the remaining number is the important one and I'd wager we're down to about 1500 Griffs. frown


Uncle Fester

3,114 posts

142 months

Monday 16th February 2009
quotequote all
We could answer the question of how many TVR survive and break that down into which models. The DVLA data can be purchased. Details here

I phoned the first number on the list (Experian) and they said that it would cost a couple of hundred quid. Unfortunately, they only have current information, not historical. It might be something the TVRCC might like to aquire and make available. This would answer how many are left. We could have it broken down by year of first reg and engine size. The more details, the higher the price.

Experian suggested contacting the SMMT, who may, or may not hold the historical data about production, or at least registrations. I have emailed them asking what data they hold and how much it would cost for a peek.
http://www.smmt.co.uk/home.cfm




Edited by Uncle Fester on Monday 16th February 12:53

RichB

40,360 posts

218 months

Monday 16th February 2009
quotequote all
GJR said:
450Nick said:
Interestingly, the HC models were a mistake. Turns out that Rover cast a load of heads wrongly with too much compression. Rather than sending them back, they decided to call its the HC model!
It would also be good to know once and for all whether HC means High Compression as indicated above, or High Cam as I'd always understood it ?
Also it would be interesting to know from those regularly involved with rolling road runs if there is noticeable difference between HC / not HC cars. Somehoe I doubt it, everything I ever hear suggest a Griff 500 makes about 260-270 bhp never any suggestion that the HC letters makes any difference.

Bluebottle

3,485 posts

174 months

Monday 16th February 2009
quotequote all
450Nick said:
You probably want to ask Dom at TVR Power. He has lists of every engine built for TVR, and what car it was going into. He has all sorts of interesting info on how many of each car were built and what was done to each engine etc. Interestingly, the HC models were a mistake. Turns out that Rover cast a load of heads wrongly with too much compression. Rather than sending them back, they decided to call its the HC model! Then the 250bhp edition was another mistake involving even more badly cast heads with way too much compression. These apparently run around 12:1 compression! Anyway back on point, he'll know how many Griffs were built. Said he plans to write a book at some point answering all the questions from TVR history - should be a good read!
Think i may have had some of them heads weeping

Uncle Fester

3,114 posts

142 months

Wednesday 18th February 2009
quotequote all
So, I emailed The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders.

A big thank you to Mark Sopher, who is their Production and Export Data Coordinator.

Please note that this data is the copyright property of the SMMT. They have given it on the condition that it is for non-commercial use only.

If you wish to use it commercialy, please contact them before use.

I have emailed him back and asked if he can supply earlier data.

He sent me a couple of Excel spreadsheets. If anyone wants copies, drop me a line. If anyone is better at formating posts, please feel free to make this more readable.

TVR Production

1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007
Cerbera 441 372 271 168 102 72 87 61 4 0 0
Chimaera 873 1085 998 373 102 72 4 0 0 0 0
Sagaris 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 235 107 0
Griffith 232 231 187 90 82 64 0 0 0 0 0
T350 0 0 0 0 0 10 403 454 140 8 0
Tamora 0 0 0 0 24 217 108 141 79 9 0
Tuscan 0 0 4 686 626 375 267 201 254 182 0
Typhon 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Total 1546 1688 1460 1317 936 810 871 860 712 306 0






TVR PRODUCTION JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC TOTAL
2006 PRODUCTION TVR 60 66 41 25 27 28 20 19 20 0 0 0 306
2005 PRODUCTION TVR 72 74 58 62 66 68 74 38 61 45 48 46 712
2004 PRODUCTION TVR 72 84 82 68 69 70 52 88 79 67 76 53 860
2003 PRODUCTION TVR 80 84 82 60 84 82 85 40 84 73 67 50 871
2002 PRODUCTION TVR 80 80 78 91 95 60 60 38 80 55 55 38 810
2001 PRODUCTION TVR 80 80 82 61 100 102 88 55 74 74 82 58 936

TVR EXPORT JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC TOTAL
2006 EXPORT ALLOCATION TVR 6 5 4 2 6 5 5 3 4 0 0 0 40
2005 EXPORT ALLOCATION TVR 9 7 3 6 5 5 5 5 6 3 4 6 64
2004 EXPORT ALLOCATION TVR 7 11 8 7 8 10 5 10 2 5 2 5 80
2003 EXPORT ALLOCATION TVR 7 9 10 6 8 8 8 4 8 7 13 7 95
2002 EXPORT ALLOCATION TVR 8 7 12 11 10 9 5 5 8 7 7 6 95
2001 EXPORT ALLOCATION TVR 6 4 4 5 5 5 6 5 5 6 8 10 69


Edited by Uncle Fester on Wednesday 18th February 14:38

5.0ltr

2,469 posts

133 months

Wednesday 18th February 2009
quotequote all
Good work Uncle F.
I make that 886 Griffs for these years in total, be interesting to see the earlier no's.

(edited to remove question already answered if I had read the post!)

Edited by 5.0ltr on Wednesday 18th February 10:20

Barreti

6,535 posts

171 months

Wednesday 18th February 2009
quotequote all
Good work Uncle Fester. Sorted into tables.

TVR Production by Model
Model 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007
Cerbera 441 372 271 168 102 72 87 61 4 0 0
Chimaera 873 1085 998 373 102 72 4 0 0 0 0
Sagaris 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 235 107 0
Griffith 232 231 187 90 82 64 0 0 0 0 0
T350 0 0 0 0 0 10 403 454 140 8 0
Tamora 0 0 0 0 24 217 108 141 79 9 0
Tuscan 0 0 4 686 626 375 267 201 254 182 0
Typhon 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Total 1546 1688 1460 1317 936 810 871 860 712 306 0


TVR Production by Year
Year JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC TOTAL
2006 60 66 41 25 27 28 20 19 20 0 0 0 306
2005 72 74 58 62 66 68 74 38 61 45 48 46 712
2004 72 84 82 68 69 70 52 88 79 67 76 53 860
2003 80 84 82 60 84 82 85 40 84 73 67 50 871
2002 80 80 78 91 95 60 60 38 80 55 55 38 810
2001 80 80 82 61 100 102 88 55 74 74 82 58 936



TVR Export by Year
Year JAN FEB MAR APR MAY JUN JUL AUG SEP OCT NOV DEC TOTAL
2006 6 5 4 2 6 5 5 3 4 0 0 0 40
2005 9 7 3 6 5 5 5 5 6 3 4 6 64
2004 7 11 8 7 8 10 5 10 2 5 2 5 80
2003 7 9 10 6 8 8 8 4 8 7 13 7 95
2002 8 7 12 11 10 9 5 5 8 7 7 6 95
2001 6 4 4 5 5 5 6 5 5 6 8 10 69



Edited by Barreti on Wednesday 18th February 11:52

Bluebottle

3,485 posts

174 months

Wednesday 18th February 2009
quotequote all
Are these figures for Road registered cars, or for chassis' registered by the factory Uncle Fester?

I heard somewhere that Chimp and Griff figures could not be relied upon as many of the chassis were pre-registered by the factory as one but may have finally left the factory as the other.