Igenium oil dilution / early service indicator

[smudger911]

Anyone else with the new Ingenium engine had their service light come on early?
I have a 2017 Evoque with 8,000 miles requesting a service - should be 20,000 miles or 2 years as per JLR standards.

After a chat with my local JLR dealer it appears there is an issue with oil dilution & failed DPF regen's which is obviously not good.

JLR have published an advisory here

https://www.docdroid.net/KUMbEu2/2017-07-jlrp00100...

My question to JLR is, regardless of having a 5 year service pack the vehicle has a design fault, who is going to pick up the cost of the extra oil changes not too mention the hassle of seeing the garage every 6 ~ 8,000 miles...

[Jem0911]

I have had my DS since May
So far I have covered 25K miles
Its had a free oil change at 13k which took an hour where I worked from the dealer lounge.
A normal service at 22K

I think this problem will be troublesome for JLR.

There is plenty of discussion here
https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/

[MrBarry123]

Provided JLR cover the cost of the extra oil changes, I'd reckon it's a reasonably good result for you as your car isn't having to suffer 20k miles between servicing.

I'm not sure it's fair to expect compensation for "the hassle" though...

[Steviesam]

Lots of people saying they had to pay for these oil changes, as LR declined to do so.

[SAS Tom]

I might be missing something here but this doesn’t sound like an unusual problem. By the sounds of it, the early service is required because the DPF hasn’t had chance to regenerate fully during the journeys you have done. If you’re using it for short journeys then it’s no surprise this has occurred.

Where JLR seem to have mentioned they are at fault is because they didn’t mention it in the brochure. I’m sure it’s the same situation with any other manufacturer when using a diesel in a way it isn’t intended.

[Stickyfinger]

With a lot of LR's only every used to go to the shops/school I am not surprised .............the pathetic "need" for a 4x4 and massive fake off road boxes to carry 1 or 2 kids and some food home from a supermarket is just baffling.

Edited by Stickyfinger on Tuesday 10th October 11:06

[MrBarry123]

SAS Tom said:

I might be missing something here but this doesn’t sound like an unusual problem. By the sounds of it, the early service is required because the DPF hasn’t had chance to regenerate fully during the journeys you have done. If you’re using it for short journeys then it’s no surprise this has occurred.

Where JLR seem to have mentioned they are at fault is because they didn’t mention it in the brochure. I’m sure it’s the same situation with any other manufacturer when using a diesel in a way it isn’t intended.

That's a very good point.

OP - is the car used primarily for shorter journeys?

[smudger911]

MrBarry123 said:

SAS Tom said:

I might be missing something here but this doesn’t sound like an unusual problem. By the sounds of it, the early service is required because the DPF hasn’t had chance to regenerate fully during the journeys you have done. If you’re using it for short journeys then it’s no surprise this has occurred.

Where JLR seem to have mentioned they are at fault is because they didn’t mention it in the brochure. I’m sure it’s the same situation with any other manufacturer when using a diesel in a way it isn’t intended.

That's a very good point.

OP - is the car used primarily for shorter journeys?

Thats all fair comment and there are other manufacturers which have similar issues with DPFs and short journeys.

Our Evoque does a mixture of short and long journeys - 5 mile round trip to regular 80 mile round trip at 60+MPH. Having run many other diesels that behavior doesn't seem irregular enough to stop any DPF re-gens, nor has the Evoque flagged up the amber warning light re DPF getting near full.
The problem or issue I take away from this is there is potential to be hit in the wallet for a product sold with a 2 year, 20,000 mile service claim which clearly isn't really true depending on your use case.
I am optimistic my local JLR dealer will offer the oil drop and filter change FOC, although very disappointing it could require an oil change every 6 - 8k miles or possible engine failure.

[The Leaper]

I have the first DS model with the 2.2L engine. I've had the vehicle since December 2016. I do mixed use driving and I've not experience any of the problems as mentioned above. Am I being fortunate or does this model not suffer the same as the later model with the igenium engine?

R.

[Stickyfinger]

smudger911 said:

Thats all fair comment and there are other manufacturers which have similar issues with DPFs and short journeys.

Our Evoque does a mixture of short and long journeys - 5 mile round trip to regular 80 mile round trip at 60+MPH. Having run many other diesels that behavior doesn't seem irregular enough to stop any DPF re-gens, nor has the Evoque flagged up the amber warning light re DPF getting near full.
The problem or issue I take away from this is there is potential to be hit in the wallet for a product sold with a 2 year, 20,000 mile service claim which clearly isn't really true depending on your use case.
I am optimistic my local JLR dealer will offer the oil drop and filter change FOC, although very disappointing it could require an oil change every 6 - 8k miles or possible engine failure.

What is "regular"....5 miles twice a day for a month then one trip in traffic where you get to 60mph for a mile or two ?

[smudger911]

Stickyfinger said:

What is "regular"....5 miles twice a day for a month then one trip in traffic where you get to 60mph for a mile or two ?

Exactly, devil is always in the detail. 5 miles 3x times a week. 80miles twice a week, 60 miles of which are at a constant 60+mph. The many other LR products we've had over the last 10 years haven't had this issue. Appears to be the newer, so called greener engines are the issue.

[andrews]

I have the same issue with a 6 month old Evoque that's done 5000 miles. LR are very aware of the problem and have an advisory out. Mine goes in for an "early" early service next week.

[Sheepshanks]

SAS Tom said:

I might be missing something here but this doesn’t sound like an unusual problem. By the sounds of it, the early service is required because the DPF hasn’t had chance to regenerate fully during the journeys you have done. If you’re using it for short journeys then it’s no surprise this has occurred.

Where JLR seem to have mentioned they are at fault is because they didn’t mention it in the brochure. I’m sure it’s the same situation with any other manufacturer when using a diesel in a way it isn’t intended.

Does anyone understand how the regen works?

As I understand it, few vehicles passive regen in reality, although manufacturers often claim they do, as the dpf doesn't get anywhere near hot enough in normal UK use. I've seen this stated for Jag diesels.

Mrs S has a VW Tiguan with the latest EU6 engine. VW dealers and VW UK insisted it will passive regen but owners have measured the dpf temp and it's far too low whatever (within reason) way they drive. VW engineers obviously know this - so the ECU is programmed to do an active regen every 465 miles if one hasn't been called for before. In practice ours, used almost exclusively for short trips, is active regenning based on soot loading about every 200 miles.

[smudger911]

SAS Tom said:

I might be missing something here but this doesn’t sound like an unusual problem. By the sounds of it, the early service is required because the DPF hasn’t had chance to regenerate fully during the journeys you have done. If you’re using it for short journeys then it’s no surprise this has occurred.

Where JLR seem to have mentioned they are at fault is because they didn’t mention it in the brochure. I’m sure it’s the same situation with any other manufacturer when using a diesel in a way it isn’t intended.

Seems oil dilution can be a common thing on EU6 engines. For example the new Ford Transits have had oil changes after 2000 miles for example.

After a long relationship with LR and many new cars our 6 month old Evoque is being returned with a refund as not 'fit for purpose'. We'll be switching to a petrol based something or other as this issue, at least in my mind is another reason not to have a diesel - JLR or otherwise.

[andrews]

did you manage to get a full refund for this issue only? I would certainly be interested in going down the same avenue if I have to have the car serviced every 5000 miles.

Thanks

[smudger911]

andrews said:

did you manage to get a full refund for this issue only? I would certainly be interested in going down the same avenue if I have to have the car serviced every 5000 miles.

Thanks

JLR have brought the car back at very near list price.

[custardkid]

MrBarry123 said:

Provided JLR cover the cost of the extra oil changes, I'd reckon it's a reasonably good result for you as your car isn't having to suffer 20k miles between servicing.

I'm not sure it's fair to expect compensation for "the hassle" though...

not really, but arguable is if the 20,000 mile service interval having the same effect

excess soot production causing the DPF to be loaded
in the regen process excess diesel is used to create hot combustion
some of that diesel leaks past the piston rings (as in any car) and into the oil

so oil diluted with diesel, meaning the oil is not lubricating as well as it should

expect turbo failure, bearing issues and a blocked DPF as full of ASH in a couple of years

[smudger911]

Just saying JLR are offering oil changes up to 50,000 miles as a gesture of goodwill if oil is suitably diluted >+6%. Outside of the 50,000 mile goodwill limit customers are expected to pay the cost of an oil/filter change.

Not a bad response, but not a good endorsement for Euro6 diesel engines with the media getting behind the polluting nature of diesels in general. I do wonder how many people will have their cars (JLR or otherwise) serviced if you are only getting 5,000 miles between oil drops - that's going back to diesels of the 1990's!

[zjm]

The issue of oil dilution is neither related to short journeys or long it’s the engine design 100%. Its not good to dilute your oil with diesel or anything and your Landrover 2ltr Diesel engine will never get near 20k mile service intervals without at least two visits in between oil changes. Landrover Customer care will fob you off with many answers that suggest it’s your driving style. I know all this because I have been through it all with my LR DS and I bought a diesel because I do lots of motorway miles and it makes not a jot of difference. I think that’s what a Diesel engine was designed for so it’s not correct to blame anyone or anything but JLR. The cost is coming back to the owner in the long run and more sadly anyone that buys them second hand or nearly new. In 27k of mikes I should have changed oil once, ummm it’s been four times. My advise is stay away from Landrover 2ltr Diesel engine. Many other good 2ltr Diesel engines you could choose that Do not have this issue. It’s not us the driver it’s them the manufacture that’s got it wrong and don’t they know it... anyone that says anything different on this forum is either not driving this version of engine or has no first hand experience of it. Simple and honest. I should know I’ve driven one for 1yr

[The Leaper]

I have an LR DS, but it's the first edition with the 2.2L diesel engine. It was an LR owned car so I assume it was a demonstrator/loan car. As regards oil, I've done 14,000 miles in 18 months and just had the oil changed, no top ups in between.

R.