A fresh look at the P38?
Discussion
Deranged Rover said:
Despite being a lifelong Range Rover nut, I have no time for the P38, for two main reasons:
(1) It replaced the Classic, so I can never forgive it for that.
(2) It still looks like the unholy offspring of a BMW estate, a Metrocab London taxi and a Talbot Horizon.
As to the unreliability, yes, I've no doubt they are. But as someone who coughed up £2000 on an engine/cooling system repair on an L322 and then sold it because I wasn't prepared to spend £3000 on the transmission barely a year later, I perhaps shouldn't cast aspersions.
1. Is just a stupid comment tbh.(1) It replaced the Classic, so I can never forgive it for that.
(2) It still looks like the unholy offspring of a BMW estate, a Metrocab London taxi and a Talbot Horizon.
As to the unreliability, yes, I've no doubt they are. But as someone who coughed up £2000 on an engine/cooling system repair on an L322 and then sold it because I wasn't prepared to spend £3000 on the transmission barely a year later, I perhaps shouldn't cast aspersions.
2. Only exists because you believe 1. When infact a p38 looks about 90-95% the same as a classic until you are very close up to it.
And a p38 uses much the same mechanical items as the classic did by and large. And will have similar reliability and repairability to a late model LSE.
300bhp/ton said:
2. Only exists because you believe 1. When infact a p38 looks about 90-95% the same as a classic until you are very close up to it.
And a p38 uses much the same mechanical items as the classic did by and large. And will have similar reliability and repairability to a late model LSE.
I have never been parked up on a Friday night in town in a Range Rover Classic only to have some random drunk people jump in the back and give me an address to take them to. It happen'd twice to me in the P38.And a p38 uses much the same mechanical items as the classic did by and large. And will have similar reliability and repairability to a late model LSE.
Also a soft dash classic has far more in common with the Discovery rather than a P38.
Edited by plasticpig on Monday 22 October 17:15
plasticpig said:
I have never been parked up on a Friday night in town in a Range Rover Classic only to have some random drunk people jump in the back and give me an address to take them to. It happen'd twice to me in the P38.
Also a soft dash classic has far more in common with the Discovery rather than a P38.
Nice story bro....Also a soft dash classic has far more in common with the Discovery rather than a P38.
Edited by plasticpig on Monday 22 October 17:15
Yet I fail to see what it has to do with a p38 apart from you claimed to be in one. You could have been parked in a Taxi rank for all I know.
The p38’s styling was deliberate to look like the classic. Rover even rejected more radical outsourced designs for this very reason.
Eg they are all basically the same shape and you have to look at the detail to quickly spot which is which.
Just picked up a 2000 W plate Vogue on Saturday,
Advertised on Ebay
2 Owners from new, last one for 14 years with under 98K miles covered so far.
Seems the last keeper has done everything on the list that needs doing so fingers crossed, but have renewed my AA membership as a matter of course.
I have had one before and a few L322s
This is a weekend toy for shooting etc.
It drove well on the 300 mile return journey.
Advertised on Ebay
2 Owners from new, last one for 14 years with under 98K miles covered so far.
Seems the last keeper has done everything on the list that needs doing so fingers crossed, but have renewed my AA membership as a matter of course.
I have had one before and a few L322s
This is a weekend toy for shooting etc.
It drove well on the 300 mile return journey.
Jem0911 said:
Just picked up a 2000 W plate Vogue on Saturday,
Advertised on Ebay
2 Owners from new, last one for 14 years with under 98K miles covered so far.
Seems the last keeper has done everything on the list that needs doing so fingers crossed, but have renewed my AA membership as a matter of course.
I have had one before and a few L322s
This is a weekend toy for shooting etc.
It drove well on the 300 mile return journey.
Nice, in fairness I think the later P38 with those wheels and clear light lenses looked pretty darn good in period, and still does to a degree.Advertised on Ebay
2 Owners from new, last one for 14 years with under 98K miles covered so far.
Seems the last keeper has done everything on the list that needs doing so fingers crossed, but have renewed my AA membership as a matter of course.
I have had one before and a few L322s
This is a weekend toy for shooting etc.
It drove well on the 300 mile return journey.
300bhp/ton said:
1. Is just a stupid comment tbh.
2. Only exists because you believe 1. When infact a p38 looks about 90-95% the same as a classic until you are very close up to it.
And a p38 uses much the same mechanical items as the classic did by and large. And will have similar reliability and repairability to a late model LSE.
(1) It's not a stupid comment, it's my opinion. If you don't like it then, that's fine.2. Only exists because you believe 1. When infact a p38 looks about 90-95% the same as a classic until you are very close up to it.
And a p38 uses much the same mechanical items as the classic did by and large. And will have similar reliability and repairability to a late model LSE.
(2) No, it really doesn't. It has a few similar styling cues, such as the 'floating' roof and the bonnet buttresses but that's about it. As an aside, I remember an article in a car magazine when the P38 came out, where a journalist took a late Classic and a new P38 out onto the streets of London to gauge the public's opinion. Apparently most people worked out that the P38 was the newer design, but the vast majority said the Classic looked not only better but more expensive!
I realise that the Classic was long overdue for updating but I personally don't like the job that the stylists did on it to make the P38. In my opinion, the L322 started to put things right and they absolutely nailed it with the L405.
As to their mechanical similarity, yes, the engine, chassis and gearbox are 'similar' but thats about it. The Classic was largely a Rover/British Leyland parts-bin special which is actually one of the best things about it, as parts are plentiful and cheap.
The P38 used lots of exclusive parts designed specfically for that model; many of which were not used again when the largely BMW-based L322 came along. As a result, spares are often exclusive to the model and are consequently expensive. A chap at my work has one and he loves it, but he's forever underneath it fixing things and working out what all the cryptic messages on the error panel are all about.
People like them - I have no problem with that. I don't.
Deranged Rover said:
(1) It's not a stupid comment, it's my opinion. If you don't like it then, that's fine.
Yes it is your opinion, but that doesn't mean it isn't stupid 
-- at least in my opinionDeranged Rover said:
(2) No, it really doesn't. It has a few similar styling cues, such as the 'floating' roof and the bonnet buttresses but that's about it. As an aside, I remember an article in a car magazine when the P38 came out, where a journalist took a late Classic and a new P38 out onto the streets of London to gauge the public's opinion. Apparently most people worked out that the P38 was the newer design, but the vast majority said the Classic looked not only better but more expensive!
Sounds more like a journo with an agenda than anything else. We went from a 2.5VM to a 3.9 auto to a 3.9 auto RRC's to a new 4.6 HSE to another 4.6 HSE p38. They were all Range Rovers and the p38's were better in every regard.Deranged Rover said:
I realise that the Classic was long overdue for updating but I personally don't like the job that the stylists did on it to make the P38. In my opinion, the L322 started to put things right and they absolutely nailed it with the L405.
Again that is your opinion but it's an odd one. The L322 and 405 looks miles away from the classic, so much so that unless you knew beforehand that they were related, you'd never guess it. Completely different cars. The p38 has a clear and obvious linage to the classic. But I suspect for some reason beyond styling you seem to have a personal agenda to dislike them. I'm sure you won't change your mind, but I'm also sure that deep down you know that it is irrational and probably based on something else.Deranged Rover said:
As to their mechanical similarity, yes, the engine, chassis and gearbox are 'similar' but thats about it. The Classic was largely a Rover/British Leyland parts-bin special which is actually one of the best things about it, as parts are plentiful and cheap.
The P38 used lots of exclusive parts designed specfically for that model; many of which were not used again when the largely BMW-based L322 came along. As a result, spares are often exclusive to the model and are consequently expensive. A chap at my work has one and he loves it, but he's forever underneath it fixing things and working out what all the cryptic messages on the error panel are all about.
People like them - I have no problem with that. I don't.
Messages aren't really that cryptic tbh, at least no more than any other ECU controlled car using OBD1 or 2 diagnostics..... which is pretty much every modern'ish car.The P38 used lots of exclusive parts designed specfically for that model; many of which were not used again when the largely BMW-based L322 came along. As a result, spares are often exclusive to the model and are consequently expensive. A chap at my work has one and he loves it, but he's forever underneath it fixing things and working out what all the cryptic messages on the error panel are all about.
People like them - I have no problem with that. I don't.
BTW - what spares for the p38 are expensive compared to the other Range Rover models?
An older couple have a W reg Vogue in black in my village. It’s clearly been looked after as it’s got a lovely shine from the paintwork, the leather isn’t cracked and nasty and it’s V8 rumbles happily with no smoke etc from it.
I really like it, despite it’s well known failings.
A mate had a diesel one a few years ago. 19*,*** miles on it. Faded green with lacquer peeling off it, brown carpets, seats, headlining etc but was still on air and an auto.
It was slower than sitting in a wheelbarrow and trying to push it uphill, it rolled in the corners but it again, was an annoyingly loveable car.
I really like it, despite it’s well known failings.
A mate had a diesel one a few years ago. 19*,*** miles on it. Faded green with lacquer peeling off it, brown carpets, seats, headlining etc but was still on air and an auto.
It was slower than sitting in a wheelbarrow and trying to push it uphill, it rolled in the corners but it again, was an annoyingly loveable car.
300bhp/ton said:
They were all Range Rovers and the p38's were better in every regard.
This leads to a whole different discussion. As i mentioned, I've owned a Classic and an L322. The L322 was faster, quieter, more comfortable, roomier, better designed, better built, handled better, generally nicer to drive and was more economical. In every measurable way you can think of, it was a better car. However, it's the Classic I still miss and another Classic that I want. It's a head versus heart thing! Then again, my Classic was completely reliable over the 4 years I owned it; over 2.5 years, the L322 was a money pit, so maybe there's a tiny amount of logic in my feelings...
300bhp/ton said:
But I suspect for some reason beyond styling you seem to have a personal agenda to dislike them. I'm sure you won't change your mind, but I'm also sure that deep down you know that it is irrational and probably based on something else.
There is another reason - the P38 replaced the Classic, which I love. I've already stated this, and never claimed it wasn't irrational!As to which parts are dearer for the P38 - exhaust system, brake discs, upper tailgate, stereo, gearbox, the good old BECM...etc.etc
Deranged Rover said:
This leads to a whole different discussion. As i mentioned, I've owned a Classic and an L322. The L322 was faster, quieter, more comfortable, roomier, better designed, better built, handled better, generally nicer to drive and was more economical. In every measurable way you can think of, it was a better car.
"Better" is too subjective. Without substance to backup a claim I don't think you can claim better designed.I was in a 3.6 TDV8 L322 at the weekend. It was very nice, I'd not driven that engine before. But tbh I was a little underwhelmed overall. It completely lacked sense of occasion compared to a p38. It felt very very ordinary. Would make for a good daily driver I'm sure (although it's big on the outside).
It really wasn't any bigger on the inside. It did handle more "car like", but I think that is partly what made it less interesting, it had less roll. It really didn't ride any better, you might not get the same motion you get with a live axle, but when you hit a bump it is still there, even if the bump is on the passenger side, you still know about it on the drivers side. I think it had slightly less wind noise, but nothing dramatically different. Engine noise was arguably more than a 4.6 HSE however.
And despite the increase in HP over a 4.6 RV8, it really didn't feel much different in speed (the L322 is quite a bit heavier than a p38). The diesel had a lot of grunt at low/mid revs and at the top of the throttle travel. You could flex your foot and it would go very well like this. But boot it and it didn't really seem to go much quicker, just made more noise. The RV8 doesn't have the low end grunt, so you have to use a bigger throttle input and more revs, but they feel equally as lively and more fun to pedal and make a better noise.
The 6 speed auto also seemed more dimwitted than the older 4 speed is. It certainly hesitated more and more often and ended up in the wrong gear more frequently.
As I say, it was a good car, I did like it. And I had, prior to this been thinking of trading in my p38 for a TDV8 L322 (a friend has one for sale at his garage). But this really answered the question that the p38 is just a more enjoyable vehicle. Almost forgot, mpg. My 4.6 has an average of about 16.9-17.9mpg. The TDV8 was doing 22.1mpg. Better certainly, but only wanting to do 4000-5000 miles a year, the difference isn't enough to make it worth it.
Deranged Rover said:
As to which parts are dearer for the P38 - exhaust system, brake discs, upper tailgate, stereo, gearbox, the good old BECM...etc.etc
Exhaust is cheap. Just bought a stainless section for mine for £90 and whole stainless system is only £250. New standard exhaust can be had for about £160.Front brake discs are £70/pair (just checked on ebay)
Upper tailgate is bodywork replacement, hardly a service item. You'd only be replacing if you'd been in an accident. And I'm willing to bet an L322 tailgate will cost more if buying as a new replacement. Used parts... l bet the p38 is still cheaper.
Stereo??? eh why would you be replacing these? And isn't the L322 one fully integrated, how much are they going to cost.
Gearbox is an R380 for a manual or ZF HP22 for the 2.5/4.0 auto. This is the same box as used on RR/D1/D2 the 4.6 used the HP24 a slightly stouter unit. And was used for ROW spec 4.6 Disco2's as well.
300bhp/ton said:
Exhaust is cheap. Just bought a stainless section for mine for £90 and whole stainless system is only £250. New standard exhaust can be had for about £160.
Depends which exhaust system you are talking about. The P38 had at least 3 exhaust designs. Early cars has a single pipe and then there were two dual pipe designs. The first dual pipe setup was only used for about six months and getting some hold of some of the pipes for these was pretty much impossible when I had my P38.I'm on my third Range rover. I started with a P38 4.6 Vogue, then upgraded to an L322 TDV8 3.6 and now an L322 5.0 S/C.
Each one has it's own character but the P38 is the one I used to enjoy wobbling around town in at weekends the most. It was like driving a giant tub of blancmange and when accelerating the sensation was more of the earth being moved backwards under the car rather than the car itself moving.
To echo the comments above, the L322s are better by almost any measurable value, however that doesn't mean the P38 is not a bit special if you're using it sparingly. I wouldn't want to be using a P38 to do motorway commuting everyday, the L322s are just so good at that, but for mooching around the P38 is pretty good.
If I ever need to downgrade my Range Rover to something cheaper or want to go back to the RR being the second car, I'd happily revert back to a decent P38. Although mine managed to exhibit almost all the known 'issues' in the 2 years I had it it was usually a doddle to find the fix online, the parts where dirt cheap and plentiful and driving it was sparingly at weekends only was always an occasion!
Each one has it's own character but the P38 is the one I used to enjoy wobbling around town in at weekends the most. It was like driving a giant tub of blancmange and when accelerating the sensation was more of the earth being moved backwards under the car rather than the car itself moving.
To echo the comments above, the L322s are better by almost any measurable value, however that doesn't mean the P38 is not a bit special if you're using it sparingly. I wouldn't want to be using a P38 to do motorway commuting everyday, the L322s are just so good at that, but for mooching around the P38 is pretty good.
If I ever need to downgrade my Range Rover to something cheaper or want to go back to the RR being the second car, I'd happily revert back to a decent P38. Although mine managed to exhibit almost all the known 'issues' in the 2 years I had it it was usually a doddle to find the fix online, the parts where dirt cheap and plentiful and driving it was sparingly at weekends only was always an occasion!
Followed one home on Friday. Lovely metallic red, with a golden retriever in the rear window sticking his tongue out at me.
I can remember when P38 were unloved but I do think they are a good shape.
That said, still tempted by a RRC, a P38 and now to an extent by an L322 as I hadn't realised how cheap they have become. All of them are attractive propositions for various reasons. Even the supercharged L322 are quite cheap......
I can remember when P38 were unloved but I do think they are a good shape.
That said, still tempted by a RRC, a P38 and now to an extent by an L322 as I hadn't realised how cheap they have become. All of them are attractive propositions for various reasons. Even the supercharged L322 are quite cheap......
Gassing Station | Land Rover | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff