Staff lateness - and blaming traffic.

[Kermit power]

Reminds me of a quote attributed, I think, to the American artist Whistler before he was making enough from his art to jack in the day job:

Boss: Mr Whistler, every day you arrive late!

Whistler: Ah yes, but see how early I leave!

[anothernameitist]

foliedouce said:

Johnnytheboy said:

foliedouce said:

I think he must be a bit odd, I took him into a meeting room and fired him, he cried and begged me not to, but you can't back down in these situations so I said he could compose himself and come out of the room when he was ready. He never did come out, when I went to check on him an hour later he'd climbed out the window! Odd.

I know, it's gone down in folklore in our business, I'd led him through a team meeting of around 20 people to get to the meeting room, they too were baffled and have obviously passed it on as newer staff know about it and often bring it up at the various do's we have.

It decreased lateness though

Which floor of the building???

[cat with a hat]

XMT said:

I think in your situation it is of course having a knock on effect on someone else being able to start/leave so a quite POLITE word might be due.

In saying that I used to work for an investment bank and due to traffic being heavy sometimes due to bad weather I would end up coming in at 9.10 rather than 8.30/45ish.

I was pulled over by my manager when it happened twice in one week. To say I was pissed was a bloody understatement considering my contract states 9-5 and for the best part of 2 years I had never ever left before 6pm and generally always 7.30 or later.
Regardings morning I was always in at 8 or 8.30 so for 1 week to be pulled up as "someone complained" really boiled my piss.

I left after another 2 months.

I don't blame you. It would boil my piss too.

[Rangeroverover]

Seems childish but try locking the front door on the dot of 9:00 if anyone needs to get in after that leave instructions that only you are to open it.

Failing that have a 5 minute general meeting at 9:00 every morning, nobody likes walking in late to one of thse

[Flooble]

Has the OP mentioned when the staff who arrive late leave in the evening?

As we're not time-critical I have no issue with people wandering in at 0930, provided they make it up at the other end.

But I do recall one irritating situation where we had a woman who asked us to adjust her hours (can't remember why now, traffic/childcare/something) from 9-5 to 8-4.

What she hadn't reckoned on was that I finished a six month stint onsite with a customer and was office-based for a bit on an internal project. Being conscientious I always leave time to beat the traffic and as a result was generally in the office by 0810, 0820 sort of time.

It became pretty clear very quickly that she had clocked that the hot-desking office rarely had the same people in the same desks and hence was waltzing in at 0830-0845, but still disappearing bang on the dot of 1600 (or even, often, earlier), since she didn't think anyone would notice. Until I did.

[Terminator X]

XMT said:

I think in your situation it is of course having a knock on effect on someone else being able to start/leave so a quite POLITE word might be due.

In saying that I used to work for an investment bank and due to traffic being heavy sometimes due to bad weather I would end up coming in at 9.10 rather than 8.30/45ish.

I was pulled over by my manager when it happened twice in one week. To say I was pissed was a bloody understatement considering my contract states 9-5 and for the best part of 2 years I had never ever left before 6pm and generally always 7.30 or later.
Regardings morning I was always in at 8 or 8.30 so for 1 week to be pulled up as "someone complained" really boiled my piss.

I left after another 2 months.

Touché, can't have cake and eat it!

TX.

[Terminator X]

Rangeroverover said:

Seems childish but try locking the front door on the dot of 9:00 if anyone needs to get in after that leave instructions that only you are to open it.

Failing that have a 5 minute general meeting at 9:00 every morning, nobody likes walking in late to one of thse

Tell me you don't own a business or manage one

TX.

[Johnnytheboy]

Flooble said:

Has the OP mentioned when the staff who arrive late leave in the evening?

As we're not time-critical I have no issue with people wandering in at 0930, provided they make it up at the other end.

But I do recall one irritating situation where we had a woman who asked us to adjust her hours (can't remember why now, traffic/childcare/something) from 9-5 to 8-4.

What she hadn't reckoned on was that I finished a six month stint onsite with a customer and was office-based for a bit on an internal project. Being conscientious I always leave time to beat the traffic and as a result was generally in the office by 0810, 0820 sort of time.

It became pretty clear very quickly that she had clocked that the hot-desking office rarely had the same people in the same desks and hence was waltzing in at 0830-0845, but still disappearing bang on the dot of 1600 (or even, often, earlier), since she didn't think anyone would notice. Until I did.

Sadly, at my end of the employment food chain, the ones that are habitually a few minutes late are like this at 1600:

[21TonyK]

Terminator X said:

Rangeroverover said:

Seems childish but try locking the front door on the dot of 9:00 if anyone needs to get in after that leave instructions that only you are to open it.

Failing that have a 5 minute general meeting at 9:00 every morning, nobody likes walking in late to one of thse

Tell me you don't own a business or manage one

TX.

Think back to your school days.

Your class teacher took a register and marked absent or late in the 5-10 minutes before classes started. If you were repeatedly late you got a letter home, carry on and a more senior teacher would discuss with parents etc.

Most people learn from this.

Those that don't and continue to behave in an immature and irresponsible manner deserve to be treated as such.

Employers put up with too much crap as it is to have to keep tabs on people who can't manage the basics.

[Rangeroverover]

If staff are going to behave like kids treat them like kids, you only have to do the door locking thing randomly to weed out the usual suspects, you find punctual staff are more pissed off with the slackers than you are and appreciate it being noted that they make the effort

[ClockworkCupcake]

Non-flexible office hours? How 20th Century.

Unless it's for a meeting or for a customer-facing role (ie. a shop opens at 9am so staff must be in by then) then does it really matter so long as staff do their hours and get the job done?

Certainly in my line of work, if someone was tapping their watch and tut-tutting if I wasn't in by a certain time, they'd be looking for someone else (but then again, I am freelance).

[Foliage]

Op are you stuck in the 90s or is it business critical that people are in bob on time? are the staff working later to compensate? are deadlines not being met?

[ClockworkCupcake]

XMT said:

In saying that I used to work for an investment bank and due to traffic being heavy sometimes due to bad weather I would end up coming in at 9.10 rather than 8.30/45ish.

I was pulled over by my manager when it happened twice in one week. To say I was pissed was a bloody understatement considering my contract states 9-5 and for the best part of 2 years I had never ever left before 6pm and generally always 7.30 or later.
Regardings morning I was always in at 8 or 8.30 so for 1 week to be pulled up as "someone complained" really boiled my piss.

I left after another 2 months.

I don't blame you. That kind of inflexibility and one-sidedness would boil my piss too.

On my first ever job, fresh out of uni, way back in the day, my employer has half way to having flexi-time. You could get in as much before 9am as you wanted, and leave as late after 5pm as you liked.
But woe betide you if you got in a minute after 9am or left a minute before 5pm, even if you had put in 50 hours that week.

Sounds like your Investment Bank was the same.

[Efbe]

ClockworkCupcake said:

Non-flexible office hours? How 20th Century.

Unless it's for a meeting or for a customer-facing role (ie. a shop opens at 9am so staff must be in by then) then does it really matter so long as staff do their hours and get the job done?

Certainly in my line of work, if someone was tapping their watch and tut-tutting if I wasn't in by a certain time, they'd be looking for someone else (but then again, I am freelance).

Foliage said:

Op are you stuck in the 90s or is it business critical that people are in bob on time? are the staff working later to compensate? are deadlines not being met?

Both of you, detention for not actually reading any of this thread.

[ClockworkCupcake]

Efbe said:

Both of you, detention for not actually reading any of this thread.

I confess that I missed the post where it was confirmed it was critical that they are in on time.

But in the wider context, the comments stand.

[Don]

ClockworkCupcake said:

Efbe said:

Both of you, detention for not actually reading any of this thread.

I confess that I missed the post where it was confirmed it was critical that they are in on time.

But in the wider context, the comments stand.

Some jobs are not time critical and flexi-time can be offered.

Other jobs, like mine, involve contractual obligations to customers that are time critical. Pretty much every job that involves IT support will be like this. I start at eight. I absolutely have to be available to do support at that time.

Production line work is the same.

So whilst you are quite correct that flexible working is advantageous and for many it is possible, for a good many it is also not possible. For these jobs you have to be on-time.

[ClockworkCupcake]

Don said:

Some jobs are not time critical and flexi-time can be offered.

Other jobs, like mine, involve contractual obligations to customers that are time critical. Pretty much every job that involves IT support will be like this. I start at eight. I absolutely have to be available to do support at that time.

Production line work is the same.

So whilst you are quite correct that flexible working is advantageous and for many it is possible, for a good many it is also not possible. For these jobs you have to be on-time.

Long time no 'see', Don!

Those are fair points.

[PurpleTurtle]

Don said:

ClockworkCupcake said:

Efbe said:

Both of you, detention for not actually reading any of this thread.

I confess that I missed the post where it was confirmed it was critical that they are in on time.

But in the wider context, the comments stand.

Some jobs are not time critical and flexi-time can be offered.

Other jobs, like mine, involve contractual obligations to customers that are time critical. Pretty much every job that involves IT support will be like this. I start at eight. I absolutely have to be available to do support at that time.

Production line work is the same.

So whilst you are quite correct that flexible working is advantageous and for many it is possible, for a good many it is also not possible. For these jobs you have to be on-time.

Yes, and no. I work in applications support and log in from home at 0745hrs to check for any high priority incidents occuring overnight - usually sat in my towel just out of the shower. If there's a big incident I might stay like that until 11am, perhaps treating myself to a pair of pants!

Most days there is no drama, so I check emails, then make sure that a colleague is in the office and log off at 0845hrs, driving or riding in at my leisure, missing the worst of the rush hour. We cover all emergency situations because at least two people are in the office for the 45 mins it takes me to get there. They bugger off around 1630hrs, I cover officially until 1715hrs, but am usually around until 1800hrs in case of any late problems which, whilst stritly outside our SLA, we understand that we work for the business who sometimes have urgent out of hours issues.

So, with a bit of flexibility and teamwork we make sure everything runs smoothly, it especially helps those that have a bad journey, everyone is much happoer since we got rid of our 'everyone must do 9-5' culture, it's not essential to us, as long as we cover the core hours. Early bird colleagues cover that for me.

I'm sat at home doing Apps Support today, shorts, flip flops and T-shirt, no travel drama and my commute 'home' will take all of five paces from study to top of staircase at 5:15pm. Friday night open from 5:16pm.

[Don]

PurpleTurtle said:

Yes, and no. I work in applications support and log in from home at 0745hrs to check for any high priority incidents occuring overnight - usually sat in my towel just out of the shower. If there's a big incident I might stay like that until 11am, perhaps treating myself to a pair of pants!

Most days there is no drama, so I check emails, then make sure that a colleague is in the office and log off at 0845hrs, driving or riding in at my leisure, missing the worst of the rush hour. We cover all emergency situations because at least two people are in the office for the 45 mins it takes me to get there. They bugger off around 1630hrs, I cover officially until 1715hrs, but am usually around until 1800hrs in case of any late problems which, whilst stritly outside our SLA, we understand that we work for the business who sometimes have urgent out of hours issues.

So, with a bit of flexibility and teamwork we make sure everything runs smoothly, it especially helps those that have a bad journey, everyone is much happoer since we got rid of our 'everyone must do 9-5' culture, it's not essential to us, as long as we cover the core hours. Early bird colleagues cover that for me.

I'm sat at home doing Apps Support today, shorts, flip flops and T-shirt, no travel drama and my commute 'home' will take all of five paces from study to top of staircase at 5:15pm. Friday night open from 5:16pm.

We stagger shifts too. Our core support hours are 8:00am to 6:00pm. I tend to do the earlier shift as that suits me better but I simply have to be there at 8:00am. We also have out of hours support which is covered by an "on call" system. We use OpsGenie for this so the regular phone line doesn't need to be monitored.

[Efbe]

The point I was trying to make earlier, that was largely ignored, is that a good boss will realise if the workplace he has is not conducive to getting the staff in on time.

Yes you can blame the staff, as it is their fault, but fixing it from this point by chastising them will only give you staff that don't want to be there and feel they have a grievance.

Bring in an 8:45 meeting to discuss the day and chat things over, or a call, or give this person a task to do at the start of the day that everyone else will rely on... maybe make them in charge of something minor from which they have a morning action to carry out.
In doing this you will retain your current staff, and not end up with crap workers