Staff lateness - and blaming traffic.
Discussion
There's a balance to be found. Sure, on some levels rigid start times aren't strictly required, but then you find the lead swingers who completely take the piss and spoil it for everybody else.
It did grind my gears somewhat to be pulled on arriving just on time for work, when finish times were frequently and non-optionally flexible to within about 2 hours, and sometimes up to 15 hours late finishing...
Getting a call in morning after finishing at 3am, enquiring as to when I'd be in (Having started at 8am the previous day) did almost tip me over the edge.
It did grind my gears somewhat to be pulled on arriving just on time for work, when finish times were frequently and non-optionally flexible to within about 2 hours, and sometimes up to 15 hours late finishing...
Getting a call in morning after finishing at 3am, enquiring as to when I'd be in (Having started at 8am the previous day) did almost tip me over the edge.
I used to be late ALL the time. I guess you could say it was my own fault. But it wasn't.
It was trains- the train that got me to work for 8.45 was ALWAYS LATE. I would then miss the connection and have to get the later one and get to work at 9:06.
If I took the train before then I was leaving an extra hour early on top of my normal commute.
Luckily my boss was ok with it and I was allowed to start at 9.15. Take a 45 minute lunch and leave at 5:30 earliest. Same as everyone else.
It was all fine until someone else started being late too. In the end they had to revoke my special hours and I went back to being late all the time.
After so many disciplinarians, request to be on time for 9am etc... In the end I had to leave. I felt so bad about being late to work but I just couldn't do the 2.5 hour commute in the morning.
Flexi-Hours worked so well for public transport. If you're driving there's no excuse you should just leave earlier. I would have LOVED to drive to work. But it was impossible.
It was trains- the train that got me to work for 8.45 was ALWAYS LATE. I would then miss the connection and have to get the later one and get to work at 9:06.
If I took the train before then I was leaving an extra hour early on top of my normal commute.
Luckily my boss was ok with it and I was allowed to start at 9.15. Take a 45 minute lunch and leave at 5:30 earliest. Same as everyone else.
It was all fine until someone else started being late too. In the end they had to revoke my special hours and I went back to being late all the time.
After so many disciplinarians, request to be on time for 9am etc... In the end I had to leave. I felt so bad about being late to work but I just couldn't do the 2.5 hour commute in the morning.
Flexi-Hours worked so well for public transport. If you're driving there's no excuse you should just leave earlier. I would have LOVED to drive to work. But it was impossible.
At our place you arrive more than a few minutes late you're in the s
t. No excuse, I can understand some of the posts, the flexible working around trains etc, but no excuse for just blaming road works. If it's once in a blue moon and the M1 ground to a halt then yeah, but general roadworks that are known about isnt an excuse.
t. No excuse, I can understand some of the posts, the flexible working around trains etc, but no excuse for just blaming road works. If it's once in a blue moon and the M1 ground to a halt then yeah, but general roadworks that are known about isnt an excuse. Depends how much you value your staff.
If they're unqualified, easy to replace and don't add much value as individuals... Then go ahead and be strict if that's what you want.
If they're experienced professionals who normally get in early and leave late, and are difficult to replace... Be strict if you want but they'll probably decide it's not worth a long commute to work with a PITA boss who doesn't appreciate them.
I'm in the second category and have a long commute. I normally get in 20 minutes early and leave 20 minutes late, but sometimes traffic is really bad. I'm almost never late, barely a couple of times per year, but when I am I still head home at the same time and I would expect my boss to realise that being late one or two times does not undo 40 minutes extra every day for a year.
The only reason I put up with the commute is that I otherwise like my job and work with decent people.
One of my previous jobs with a 75 mile commute had a stty boss who went apoplectic when I was 20 minutes late one time because of an accident on the motorway. I handed in my notice after that. I had been doing an hour extra every single day, and even did a few unpaid weekends when needed... They lost me over 20 minutes and they were still advertising for my replacement 6 months later.
If they're unqualified, easy to replace and don't add much value as individuals... Then go ahead and be strict if that's what you want.
If they're experienced professionals who normally get in early and leave late, and are difficult to replace... Be strict if you want but they'll probably decide it's not worth a long commute to work with a PITA boss who doesn't appreciate them.
I'm in the second category and have a long commute. I normally get in 20 minutes early and leave 20 minutes late, but sometimes traffic is really bad. I'm almost never late, barely a couple of times per year, but when I am I still head home at the same time and I would expect my boss to realise that being late one or two times does not undo 40 minutes extra every day for a year.
The only reason I put up with the commute is that I otherwise like my job and work with decent people.
One of my previous jobs with a 75 mile commute had a s
tty boss who went apoplectic when I was 20 minutes late one time because of an accident on the motorway. I handed in my notice after that. I had been doing an hour extra every single day, and even did a few unpaid weekends when needed... They lost me over 20 minutes and they were still advertising for my replacement 6 months later.
R E S T E C P said:
One of my previous jobs with a 75 mile commute had a stty boss who went apoplectic when I was 20 minutes late one time because of an accident on the motorway. I handed in my notice after that. I had been doing an hour extra every single day, and even did a few unpaid weekends when needed... They lost me over 20 minutes and they were still advertising for my replacement 6 months later.
tty boss who went apoplectic when I was 20 minutes late one time because of an accident on the motorway. I handed in my notice after that. I had been doing an hour extra every single day, and even did a few unpaid weekends when needed... They lost me over 20 minutes and they were still advertising for my replacement 6 months later.
Yup. Been there, done that.
One of the joys of being freelance is being able to say "what exactly is the problem? I don't start billing you until I'm on-site". It's one of the many, many reasons I have been freelance for the past 16+ years.
I had a friend who had a job as a student which involved a 6 mile cycle into town.
One day his route was blocked by the Police as a bull had escaped from the local auction mart/knackery and was running around the town.
He had to take a fair detour around the closed off roads and arrived for work about 15 minutes late.
Boss gave him a bking when he arrived and after he had explained the reason why he was unavoidably late she said: "Well, don't let that happen again!"
He struggled to keep a straight face.
One day his route was blocked by the Police as a bull had escaped from the local auction mart/knackery and was running around the town.
He had to take a fair detour around the closed off roads and arrived for work about 15 minutes late.
Boss gave him a b
king when he arrived and after he had explained the reason why he was unavoidably late she said: "Well, don't let that happen again!"He struggled to keep a straight face.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
Live in Dumfermline, work in South Glasgow. At the moment I get up at 6.15 and am out the house for 6.45 to make work for 8.00am. If I leave at 7.30 traffic congestion means I can't guarantee I'll be in for 9.00am, my contracted start time.
With regards to leaving for work early there's a limit to just how early I'm prepared to get up every morning. I'm not lazy. I believe in getting up early morning but crawling out of bed in what feels like the middle of the night is asking too much of me. With Transport Scotland warning of significant delays I may be late a lot over the next few months and my employer will just have to put up with it.
Live in Dumfermline, work in South Glasgow. At the moment I get up at 6.15 and am out the house for 6.45 to make work for 8.00am. If I leave at 7.30 traffic congestion means I can't guarantee I'll be in for 9.00am, my contracted start time.
With regards to leaving for work early there's a limit to just how early I'm prepared to get up every morning. I'm not lazy. I believe in getting up early morning but crawling out of bed in what feels like the middle of the night is asking too much of me. With Transport Scotland warning of significant delays I may be late a lot over the next few months and my employer will just have to put up with it.
Tannedbaldhead said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
Live in Dumfermline, work in South Glasgow. At the moment I get up at 6.15 and am out the house for 6.45 to make work for 8.00am. If I leave at 7.30 traffic congestion means I can't guarantee I'll be in for 9.00am, my contracted start time.
With regards to leaving for work early there's a limit to just how early I'm prepared to get up every morning. I'm not lazy. I believe in getting up early morning but crawling out of bed in what feels like the middle of the night is asking too much of me. With Transport Scotland warning of significant delays I may be late a lot over the next few months and my employer will just have to put up with it.
Why did you take a job that takes that long to get to work if you're not prepared to make the effort to get there in time if there's a known issue? I've been where you are and I just don't get your attitude, get up earlier or do a deal with you employer for some flexibility. Saying "my employer will just have to put up with it" stinks.Live in Dumfermline, work in South Glasgow. At the moment I get up at 6.15 and am out the house for 6.45 to make work for 8.00am. If I leave at 7.30 traffic congestion means I can't guarantee I'll be in for 9.00am, my contracted start time.
With regards to leaving for work early there's a limit to just how early I'm prepared to get up every morning. I'm not lazy. I believe in getting up early morning but crawling out of bed in what feels like the middle of the night is asking too much of me. With Transport Scotland warning of significant delays I may be late a lot over the next few months and my employer will just have to put up with it.
A time with a 6 in the front of it is not 'the middle of the night'. I've had to get up regularly with the alarm clock having a 4 in the front of it to get to work on time, I sucked it up because I believe good timekeeping says a lot about the standards of an individual.
I guess I'm just a dinosaur these days judging by some if the apathy on here.
R E S T E C P said:
Depends how much you value your staff.
If they're unqualified, easy to replace and don't add much value as individuals... Then go ahead and be strict if that's what you want.
If they're experienced professionals who normally get in early and leave late, and are difficult to replace... Be strict if you want but they'll probably decide it's not worth a long commute to work with a PITA boss who doesn't appreciate them.
I'm in the second category and have a long commute. I normally get in 20 minutes early and leave 20 minutes late, but sometimes traffic is really bad. I'm almost never late, barely a couple of times per year, but when I am I still head home at the same time and I would expect my boss to realise that being late one or two times does not undo 40 minutes extra every day for a year.
The only reason I put up with the commute is that I otherwise like my job and work with decent people.
One of my previous jobs with a 75 mile commute had a stty boss who went apoplectic when I was 20 minutes late one time because of an accident on the motorway. I handed in my notice after that. I had been doing an hour extra every single day, and even did a few unpaid weekends when needed... They lost me over 20 minutes and they were still advertising for my replacement 6 months later.
If that story is true then your boss was a cock. There has to be give and take in any working rationship, unfortunately there are those that take the piss in both sides. Everyone is late occasionally for reasons beyond their control, I just don't get get why people don't make an effort when there is a KNOWN issue.If they're unqualified, easy to replace and don't add much value as individuals... Then go ahead and be strict if that's what you want.
If they're experienced professionals who normally get in early and leave late, and are difficult to replace... Be strict if you want but they'll probably decide it's not worth a long commute to work with a PITA boss who doesn't appreciate them.
I'm in the second category and have a long commute. I normally get in 20 minutes early and leave 20 minutes late, but sometimes traffic is really bad. I'm almost never late, barely a couple of times per year, but when I am I still head home at the same time and I would expect my boss to realise that being late one or two times does not undo 40 minutes extra every day for a year.
The only reason I put up with the commute is that I otherwise like my job and work with decent people.
One of my previous jobs with a 75 mile commute had a s
tty boss who went apoplectic when I was 20 minutes late one time because of an accident on the motorway. I handed in my notice after that. I had been doing an hour extra every single day, and even did a few unpaid weekends when needed... They lost me over 20 minutes and they were still advertising for my replacement 6 months later.foliedouce said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west...
Live in Dumfermline, work in South Glasgow. At the moment I get up at 6.15 and am out the house for 6.45 to make work for 8.00am. If I leave at 7.30 traffic congestion means I can't guarantee I'll be in for 9.00am, my contracted start time.
With regards to leaving for work early there's a limit to just how early I'm prepared to get up every morning. I'm not lazy. I believe in getting up early morning but crawling out of bed in what feels like the middle of the night is asking too much of me. With Transport Scotland warning of significant delays I may be late a lot over the next few months and my employer will just have to put up with it.
Why did you take a job that takes that long to get to work if you're not prepared to make the effort to get there in time if there's a known issue? I've been where you are and I just don't get your attitude, get up earlier or do a deal with you employer for some flexibility. Saying "my employer will just have to put up with it" stinks.Live in Dumfermline, work in South Glasgow. At the moment I get up at 6.15 and am out the house for 6.45 to make work for 8.00am. If I leave at 7.30 traffic congestion means I can't guarantee I'll be in for 9.00am, my contracted start time.
With regards to leaving for work early there's a limit to just how early I'm prepared to get up every morning. I'm not lazy. I believe in getting up early morning but crawling out of bed in what feels like the middle of the night is asking too much of me. With Transport Scotland warning of significant delays I may be late a lot over the next few months and my employer will just have to put up with it.
A time with a 6 in the front of it is not 'the middle of the night'. I've had to get up regularly with the alarm clock having a 4 in the front of it to get to work on time, I sucked it up because I believe good timekeeping says a lot about the standards of an individual.
I guess I'm just a dinosaur these days judging by some if the apathy on here.
Out of say 40 employees at work who we require to clock in/out 8am and 4pm we have probably less than 5 instances of lateness a year overall and they are all managed without any issues as it's obviously a one off with most people who do it as it's so infrequent. The one individual who caused 3 of those instances was spoken to more firmly and warned first stage disciplinary action "could" be applied if it continued. At present it's stopped. The individual who had 3 lates is also an individual who is on sickness reviews and has had counselling records for attitude towards colleagues. Says it all really but you just manage it as per your policies. Most people if late generally have a genuine reason and if it's not constant there's no need to discuss it generally.
I had a neighbor who worked for a certain large confectionary company. Everybody from the top down was expected to start on time with no flexibility. They had a simple system, a good timekeeping bonus, if you clocked on before or on time you received it. If you didn't you didn't receive it. No excuses accepted, no exceptions nothing, you were on time or not. Timekeeping he said was excellent.
Persistent lateness is a character trait rather than anything else.
Persistent lateness is a character trait rather than anything else.
foliedouce said:
R E S T E C P said:
Depends how much you value your staff.
If they're unqualified, easy to replace and don't add much value as individuals... Then go ahead and be strict if that's what you want.
If they're experienced professionals who normally get in early and leave late, and are difficult to replace... Be strict if you want but they'll probably decide it's not worth a long commute to work with a PITA boss who doesn't appreciate them.
I'm in the second category and have a long commute. I normally get in 20 minutes early and leave 20 minutes late, but sometimes traffic is really bad. I'm almost never late, barely a couple of times per year, but when I am I still head home at the same time and I would expect my boss to realise that being late one or two times does not undo 40 minutes extra every day for a year.
The only reason I put up with the commute is that I otherwise like my job and work with decent people.
One of my previous jobs with a 75 mile commute had a stty boss who went apoplectic when I was 20 minutes late one time because of an accident on the motorway. I handed in my notice after that. I had been doing an hour extra every single day, and even did a few unpaid weekends when needed... They lost me over 20 minutes and they were still advertising for my replacement 6 months later.
If that story is true then your boss was a cock. There has to be give and take in any working rationship, unfortunately there are those that take the piss in both sides. Everyone is late occasionally for reasons beyond their control, I just don't get get why people don't make an effort when there is a KNOWN issue.If they're unqualified, easy to replace and don't add much value as individuals... Then go ahead and be strict if that's what you want.
If they're experienced professionals who normally get in early and leave late, and are difficult to replace... Be strict if you want but they'll probably decide it's not worth a long commute to work with a PITA boss who doesn't appreciate them.
I'm in the second category and have a long commute. I normally get in 20 minutes early and leave 20 minutes late, but sometimes traffic is really bad. I'm almost never late, barely a couple of times per year, but when I am I still head home at the same time and I would expect my boss to realise that being late one or two times does not undo 40 minutes extra every day for a year.
The only reason I put up with the commute is that I otherwise like my job and work with decent people.
One of my previous jobs with a 75 mile commute had a s
tty boss who went apoplectic when I was 20 minutes late one time because of an accident on the motorway. I handed in my notice after that. I had been doing an hour extra every single day, and even did a few unpaid weekends when needed... They lost me over 20 minutes and they were still advertising for my replacement 6 months later.
PurpleTurtle said:
Does your business depend on people being there from a certain time, or is it an arbitary start time because that is what it has always been? If the former, then an all staff email, followed by individual written warnings. If the latter, why not flex things up a bit?
Where I work the nominal business hours are 9am-5:15pm with 45 mins for lunch, but people choose to arrive any time between 8 and 10, then stagger their day accordingly. As long as the hours are done over a month nobody minds. There is no formal measurement, people are trusted to do their hours.
We are pretty big on flexible working, everyone likes it and few take the piss - in fact I work later into the evening to let the traffic go, so their net gain from me is often more than my contracted 37.5hrs/week.
This 100%. I can't stand employers that stick to the rigid 9-5 when the role isn't customer facing or there's no real justification for it... it just signifies a lack of trust and flexibility. Being able to get in between 8-10Am reduces the stress of the morning commute so much, as you know if you get up 10 minutes later or you hit a bit of traffic etc, it doesn't really matter - I'll just stay 10 minutes later to make it up. As long as I hit my total hours each week does it really matter? No, it doesn't.Where I work the nominal business hours are 9am-5:15pm with 45 mins for lunch, but people choose to arrive any time between 8 and 10, then stagger their day accordingly. As long as the hours are done over a month nobody minds. There is no formal measurement, people are trusted to do their hours.
We are pretty big on flexible working, everyone likes it and few take the piss - in fact I work later into the evening to let the traffic go, so their net gain from me is often more than my contracted 37.5hrs/week.
I actively wouldn't even work for an employer these days that operates rigid working hours and I think you'll find this increasingly the case for professionals, especially in IT.
Edited by lewisf182 on Thursday 11th August 09:22
It totally depends on the role whether or not you have to be a stickler about time-keeping as a manager.
I used to work as an editor on a small magazine and I would regularly arrive at 9.15 am when hours were 9-5.30 but then again I was almost always the last to leave, often at 7pm. Occasionally my boss would get annoyed as it wasn't particularly a good example for some of the more junior roles who weren't getting paid what I was (which wasn't much but this was in Dubai and I was the only westerner on the staff, there were a couple of Syrians who has some flexibility but the Indians had none despite a couple of them being very good journalists).
I would do a week of turning up at 8.50 and leaving at 5.30 but then find I needed to stay later anyway.
Now I have staff providing care to the elderly in their own homes they must be there on time and log in. It quickly becomes apparent who is conscientious and organised and who isn't. The latter types don't tend to last long as they are usually slack in record keeping as well. And I hasten to add we work hard on the schedules in the office to make sure people have enough travel time. Most work part time with 1-3 clients for a minimum of an hour at a time as the old model of 'runs' for short visits at lots of different clients doesn't deliver quality care and leads to the caregivers burning out. If a carer is running late we expect them to let us know why so we can inform the client. It does happen sometimes but good communication means it needn't cause too much angst.
I used to work as an editor on a small magazine and I would regularly arrive at 9.15 am when hours were 9-5.30 but then again I was almost always the last to leave, often at 7pm. Occasionally my boss would get annoyed as it wasn't particularly a good example for some of the more junior roles who weren't getting paid what I was (which wasn't much but this was in Dubai and I was the only westerner on the staff, there were a couple of Syrians who has some flexibility but the Indians had none despite a couple of them being very good journalists).
I would do a week of turning up at 8.50 and leaving at 5.30 but then find I needed to stay later anyway.
Now I have staff providing care to the elderly in their own homes they must be there on time and log in. It quickly becomes apparent who is conscientious and organised and who isn't. The latter types don't tend to last long as they are usually slack in record keeping as well. And I hasten to add we work hard on the schedules in the office to make sure people have enough travel time. Most work part time with 1-3 clients for a minimum of an hour at a time as the old model of 'runs' for short visits at lots of different clients doesn't deliver quality care and leads to the caregivers burning out. If a carer is running late we expect them to let us know why so we can inform the client. It does happen sometimes but good communication means it needn't cause too much angst.
There is far too much emphasis on counting hours and far too little emphasis on delivering excellent work.
I couldn't care less when my team arrive at work or leave, providing that everything that they have promised to do is done well, before it needs to be. I use the same logic when dealing with clients and line managers. It means that most of the time, I do a bit more than my contracted hours, but can fit those hours around other stuff that occasionally intrudes into the conventional 9-5 day.
I couldn't care less when my team arrive at work or leave, providing that everything that they have promised to do is done well, before it needs to be. I use the same logic when dealing with clients and line managers. It means that most of the time, I do a bit more than my contracted hours, but can fit those hours around other stuff that occasionally intrudes into the conventional 9-5 day.
lewisf182 said:
This 100%. I can't stand employers that stick to the rigid 9-5 when the role isn't customer facing or there's no real justification for it... it just signifies a lack of trust and flexibility. Being able to get in between 8-10Am reduces the stress of the morning commute so much, as you know if you get up 10 minutes later or you hit a bit of traffic etc, it doesn't really matter - I'll just stay 10 minutes later to make it up. As long as I hit my total hours each week does it really matter? No, it doesn't.
I actively wouldn't even work for an employer these days that operates rigid working hours and I think you'll find this increasingly the case for professionals, especially in IT.
I'm with you. Also in ITI actively wouldn't even work for an employer these days that operates rigid working hours and I think you'll find this increasingly the case for professionals, especially in IT.
Edited by lewisf182 on Thursday 11th August 09:22
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