Failing Speedfit plumbing joints
Discussion
Five years ago the house had entirely new central heating, all connected using Speedfit type plastic fittings. I was dubious at the time but was assured they're just as good as soldered copper piping so I accepted them.
Anyway, within the first year we'd had two leaks, both on 90 degree connectors, but both easy fixes. Now, five years later, we've had another massive leak that's taken us six weeks to find (boiler wouldn't hold pressure) and unfortunately it's under the kitchen floor.
My questions are; is this normal for plastic fittings? And, if not, is it reasonable to ask (demand) the plumber to fix it for no charge? Is it just one of the joys of home ownership and a mishap that I should just suck up, or is it likely to be poor parts and workmanship?
Anyway, within the first year we'd had two leaks, both on 90 degree connectors, but both easy fixes. Now, five years later, we've had another massive leak that's taken us six weeks to find (boiler wouldn't hold pressure) and unfortunately it's under the kitchen floor.
My questions are; is this normal for plastic fittings? And, if not, is it reasonable to ask (demand) the plumber to fix it for no charge? Is it just one of the joys of home ownership and a mishap that I should just suck up, or is it likely to be poor parts and workmanship?
Inserts inserted incorrectly, if used.
Inserts not used and bad cuts made on the pipe ends.
Pipe not inserted into the fitting adequately.
Swarf from the pipe cutting fouling the fitting seals.
Constant expansion and contraction from heating cycles weakening the joint and the locking rings aren't done up because, f
k, that takes 1 second extra.
That's just off the top of my head. I would never fit a whole heating system in Pushfit EXCEPT when there is a visible manifold made up with no-joint runs to every location. I would not put any joints where I could not see them. Plus, i'm not a fking idiot and can joint Speedfit properly.
That's why I get 9/10 heating installs I quote and I do 100% in copper.
Inserts not used and bad cuts made on the pipe ends.
Pipe not inserted into the fitting adequately.
Swarf from the pipe cutting fouling the fitting seals.
Constant expansion and contraction from heating cycles weakening the joint and the locking rings aren't done up because, f
k, that takes 1 second extra.That's just off the top of my head. I would never fit a whole heating system in Pushfit EXCEPT when there is a visible manifold made up with no-joint runs to every location. I would not put any joints where I could not see them. Plus, i'm not a f
king idiot and can joint Speedfit properly.That's why I get 9/10 heating installs I quote and I do 100% in copper.
Thanks guys, the cost of the part is minimal so so any warranty on that doesn't bother me. It's the hassle of either doing this myself or the expense of getting the plumber back.
We have a good relationship with the plumber but do feel he's made a bit of a pig's ear of our installation. Would I be out of order to ask him to fix it free of charge? I don't want to have an argument and have to start finding another plumber as he's usually straight round whenever the boiler packs up!
We have a good relationship with the plumber but do feel he's made a bit of a pig's ear of our installation. Would I be out of order to ask him to fix it free of charge? I don't want to have an argument and have to start finding another plumber as he's usually straight round whenever the boiler packs up!
LookAtMyCat said:
Inserts inserted incorrectly, if used.
Inserts not used and bad cuts made on the pipe ends.
Pipe not inserted into the fitting adequately.
Swarf from the pipe cutting fouling the fitting seals.
Constant expansion and contraction from heating cycles weakening the joint and the locking rings aren't done up because, fk, that takes 1 second extra.
That's just off the top of my head. I would never fit a whole heating system in Pushfit EXCEPT when there is a visible manifold made up with no-joint runs to every location. I would not put any joints where I could not see them. Plus, i'm not a fking idiot and can joint Speedfit properly.
That's why I get 9/10 heating installs I quote and I do 100% in copper.
You see this makes me want to tackle the job myself. That way I can see the state of the cuts and whether he's used inserts.Inserts not used and bad cuts made on the pipe ends.
Pipe not inserted into the fitting adequately.
Swarf from the pipe cutting fouling the fitting seals.
Constant expansion and contraction from heating cycles weakening the joint and the locking rings aren't done up because, f
k, that takes 1 second extra.That's just off the top of my head. I would never fit a whole heating system in Pushfit EXCEPT when there is a visible manifold made up with no-joint runs to every location. I would not put any joints where I could not see them. Plus, i'm not a f
king idiot and can joint Speedfit properly.That's why I get 9/10 heating installs I quote and I do 100% in copper.
It's strange because the long pipe runs are done in plastic but the last 24" are always in copper so it's not like he can't do copper piping!
I have to say, if I was planning a central heating install I'd have thought it logical to have these fittings in a visible location and either keep joints easily accessible or not have any at all.
Crumpet said:
Thanks guys, the cost of the part is minimal so so any warranty on that doesn't bother me. It's the hassle of either doing this myself or the expense of getting the plumber back.
We have a good relationship with the plumber but do feel he's made a bit of a pig's ear of our installation. Would I be out of order to ask him to fix it free of charge? I don't want to have an argument and have to start finding another plumber as he's usually straight round whenever the boiler packs up!
I would say the chance of both getting plumber to fix free of charge, and said plumber wanting to continue to work for you is pretty near zero.......We have a good relationship with the plumber but do feel he's made a bit of a pig's ear of our installation. Would I be out of order to ask him to fix it free of charge? I don't want to have an argument and have to start finding another plumber as he's usually straight round whenever the boiler packs up!
I wouldn't want it the worry in my house. It's all fine when it goes under the kitchen floor and creates a pressure drop problem, but when they let go upstairs when you're out and takes down the ceilings in 3 rooms it's more of an inconvenience. Frankly it shouldn't happen if it has been installed correctly but i'd worry in your case that it was done a little slapdash.
Generally if you high-pressure test copper and then run it up at nigh-3-bar at 80 celsius for an hour you can be pretty sure if it doesn't let go then, it never will, short of a natural disaster. It's becoming more evident in the increase in it's use that you simply cannot say the same about pushfit of any brand.
Generally if you high-pressure test copper and then run it up at nigh-3-bar at 80 celsius for an hour you can be pretty sure if it doesn't let go then, it never will, short of a natural disaster. It's becoming more evident in the increase in it's use that you simply cannot say the same about pushfit of any brand.
LookAtMyCat said:
Inserts inserted incorrectly, if used.
Inserts not used and bad cuts made on the pipe ends.
Pipe not inserted into the fitting adequately.
Swarf from the pipe cutting fouling the fitting seals.
Constant expansion and contraction from heating cycles weakening the joint and the locking rings aren't done up because, fk, that takes 1 second extra.
That's just off the top of my head. I would never fit a whole heating system in Pushfit EXCEPT when there is a visible manifold made up with no-joint runs to every location. I would not put any joints where I could not see them. Plus, i'm not a fking idiot and can joint Speedfit properly.
That's why I get 9/10 heating installs I quote and I do 100% in copper.
I'm guessing this makes you correct?Inserts not used and bad cuts made on the pipe ends.
Pipe not inserted into the fitting adequately.
Swarf from the pipe cutting fouling the fitting seals.
Constant expansion and contraction from heating cycles weakening the joint and the locking rings aren't done up because, f
k, that takes 1 second extra.That's just off the top of my head. I would never fit a whole heating system in Pushfit EXCEPT when there is a visible manifold made up with no-joint runs to every location. I would not put any joints where I could not see them. Plus, i'm not a f
king idiot and can joint Speedfit properly.That's why I get 9/10 heating installs I quote and I do 100% in copper.
Lock ring not been tightened.
Are you sure thats JG? As that doesn't look like Pushfit unless some legacy design.
As others have said, plastic fittings are fine and are expected to last a few decades at least, its normally when they are not fitted properly.
During renovations Ive had multiple Tees unsupported or fitted to anything and generally abused with building work hitting them and no issues at all. Personally have confidence in them.
As others have said, plastic fittings are fine and are expected to last a few decades at least, its normally when they are not fitted properly.
During renovations Ive had multiple Tees unsupported or fitted to anything and generally abused with building work hitting them and no issues at all. Personally have confidence in them.
Edited by hyphen on Monday 3rd July 14:55
I did a whole system with the Speedfit fittings (maybe 200+ fittings in a 2,000ft2 400 year old house) and had one leak when it was all turned on, which was a dodgy seal. Will be replacing in copper when decorating each room but had enough of 7 years with no heating and pneumonia 4 times so had to do something quickly - all pipes/fitting are visible. Took me a little over 3 weeks and almost killed me (mind you that was the victorian cast iron rads which I flushed and installed). Had one more joint go when a mouse chewed a 90 degree bend and created a drop in pressure due to a weeping joint. I used a template and marked the pipe with pencil to ensure I'd pushed it home enough. They are easy to swap once you've de-pressurised the system.
FFG
FFG
My house was built using Hep2o, no leaks in 16 years. I always preferred Hep2o until they changed the design a few years ago, I use Speedfit now. My mate who owns a plumber merchants reckons the o rings will start to deteriorate after 25-30 years, that’s just his opinion but he could be correct.
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