Public Transport vs Driving. Are they mad?

Public Transport vs Driving. Are they mad?

Author
Discussion

MiniMan64

Original Poster:

16,863 posts

189 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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Public transport is not something I use very often, the odd bus into town every now and again maybe. That's reasonable enough I guess.

Planning to take the young lads to the National Railway Museum in York from Manchester when visiting the in laws. After a 5 hour drive to Manchester I didn't really fancy another hour and a bit to York, hey, why not take the train I thought?

One less car on the road, be a good citizen, the lads will probably love the adventure and surely it's dead easy in York, it's RAILWAY museum after all. Plus I can save a bit on petrol and parking too. Win all around.

Except the train is £60 fking quid which is a damm sight more than I'd spend on petrol and parking.

How are we expected to see public transport as a more viable alternative to driving when it's more bloody expensive?! What's the point?

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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I feel your pain. I was thinking of an impromptu day trip to Scarborough a while back. Car: £25 petrol. Train: £136 return for two people.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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Rail travel is bloody expensive, yes, but you're considering part of the marginal cost of using a car against the total cost of using the railway.

egor110

16,818 posts

202 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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How far away is your trip ?

The earlier you book the cheaper it is .

wazztie16

1,469 posts

130 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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MiniMan64 said:
Public transport is not something I use very often, the odd bus into town every now and again maybe. That's reasonable enough I guess.

Planning to take the young lads to the National Railway Museum in York from Manchester when visiting the in laws. After a 5 hour drive to Manchester I didn't really fancy another hour and a bit to York, hey, why not take the train I thought?

One less car on the road, be a good citizen, the lads will probably love the adventure and surely it's dead easy in York, it's RAILWAY museum after all. Plus I can save a bit on petrol and parking too. Win all around.

Except the train is £60 fking quid which is a damm sight more than I'd spend on petrol and parking.

How are we expected to see public transport as a more viable alternative to driving when it's more bloody expensive?! What's the point?
A lot of people don't like driving, unless really necessary (my ex used to hate driving, if she could have a free chauffeur, she would've, happily). Some people will just happily stump up the extra £30-40 etc to take away the hassle of other drivers on the road, getting lost at junctions and being beeped, worrying about being caught on dash camera or just observed doing a perfectly safe overtake then having a not their fault crash but the witness that observed them overtaking coming forward to the police, blaming them for being a maniac on the road. That last one is a bit extreme, I'll admit.

Is less stress on a coach, train, bus, maybe more expensive and an hour etc longer but it's less worry.

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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It is expensive if you have to fuel, tax, insure and finance a car as well, prob not as bad if you aren't running cars as well.

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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otolith said:
Rail travel is bloody expensive, yes, but you're considering part of the marginal cost of using a car against the total cost of using the railway.
How come the Dutch, the Germans and the Austrians (in my experience) can provide trains which are capacious, clean and punctual at prices that don't make your wallet sting then?

CoolHands

18,496 posts

194 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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The reason I never think this is something that should be complained about, is because the 'solution' would be to make private transport exorbitantly priced. So keep quiet!

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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otolith said:
Rail travel is bloody expensive, yes, but you're considering part of the marginal cost of using a car against the total cost of using the railway.
That's the snag. Don't shout about though - it gives the road charging lobby ammunition.

Public transport is nearly always going to look bonkers if multiple people are travelling though.

carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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Often cheaper to book two singles via thetrainline.com up to the day before travel. On the day of travel you're stuffed -- I ended up paying £108 Leeds to Kings X cattle class 1-way after missing my pre-booked train.

I can fly Stansted-Glasgow for £50, but I guess I wouldn't expect to rock up at the airport with 20 mins to spare and buy a ticket for £50.

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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MiniMan64 said:
Except the train is £60 fking quid which is a damm sight more than I'd spend on petrol and parking.
Your car cost a lot more to run than fuel and parking.

If you have a car full of passengers it is about as efficient as it gets for moving people about and it will likely beat public transport on cost, convenience and environmentally friendliness. But you really can't compare costs on cost of fuel and parking saved Vs total cost of public transport, unless you only pay for the fuel of he train.

Neither car not PT is going to be the best for every trip, so look to see which suits.

iguana

7,025 posts

259 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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Pal of mine was over from Australia, wanted to get down to Berkshire from Manchester, train prices were horrific, it was cheaper to go online & rent a car including the fuel & use that, that's nuts! & that was just for one person, for a family would be a no brainer.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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MitchT said:
otolith said:
Rail travel is bloody expensive, yes, but you're considering part of the marginal cost of using a car against the total cost of using the railway.
How come the Dutch, the Germans and the Austrians (in my experience) can provide trains which are capacious, clean and punctual at prices that don't make your wallet sting then?
Oh, no argument that it's expensive. But comparing the cost of fuel for a journey while ignoring some of the variable costs (wear and tear, mileage based servicing, mileage related depreciation, etc) and all of the fixed costs (tax, insurance, annual servicing, age related depreciation, etc) is never going to be a level playing field. If you have to transport 400 people, it's cheaper to put fuel in your own airliner that you already happen to have than it is for them all to travel on BA...

Dutch and Austrian trains have lower subsidies than ours do, but I'm sure we could provide much cheaper rail services if taxpayers subsidised them as much as the Germans do.

carl_w

9,154 posts

257 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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Willy Nilly said:
Your car cost a lot more to run than fuel and parking.
Yes, I've never really managed to work this out but I reckon the HMRC 45p/mile allowance isn't far off the mark. You have fixed costs that you will incur if the car spends the whole year on your driveway: tax, MOT, insurance. Then you have the wear and tear on consumables: oil, other fluids, tyres, brakes, clutch. This sort of stuff can be costed for in a spreadsheet. Then there's the other stuff that wears out through mileage: CV joints, dampers, engines, gearboxes -- I don't think this can be measured at all with any degree of reliability.

G321

574 posts

203 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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MitchT said:
How come the Dutch, the Germans and the Austrians (in my experience) can provide trains which are capacious, clean and punctual at prices that don't make your wallet sting then?
From my experience of living in Germany trains were expensive there unless you booked in advance. A bit like here really....

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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carl_w said:
Willy Nilly said:
Your car cost a lot more to run than fuel and parking.
Yes, I've never really managed to work this out but I reckon the HMRC 45p/mile allowance isn't far off the mark. You have fixed costs that you will incur if the car spends the whole year on your driveway: tax, MOT, insurance. Then you have the wear and tear on consumables: oil, other fluids, tyres, brakes, clutch. This sort of stuff can be costed for in a spreadsheet. Then there's the other stuff that wears out through mileage: CV joints, dampers, engines, gearboxes -- I don't think this can be measured at all with any degree of reliability.
As a low mileage driver, my cost per mile for my little car is off the chart! So it does vary from car to car and person to person. I don't think most people have the foggiest how much their car actually costs to own.

everyeggabird

351 posts

105 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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I use the bus at the minute to get to the current job.

It is easy, bus stop is a three minute walk from the house, parking is a nightmare at the other end, traffic coming home is really busy, a weekly ticket is £15. Never had a problem.

It saves so much wear and tear on the car not sitting in traffic on the way home.

egomeister

6,698 posts

262 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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G321 said:
MitchT said:
How come the Dutch, the Germans and the Austrians (in my experience) can provide trains which are capacious, clean and punctual at prices that don't make your wallet sting then?
From my experience of living in Germany trains were expensive there unless you booked in advance. A bit like here really....
Später was one of the first words I learned in German thanks to Deutsche Bahn. Punctual they aren't, but there are often multiple services heading in the same direction which we don't tend to get in the UK

Wait Here Until Green Light Shows

15,186 posts

199 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
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MitchT said:
How come the Dutch, the Germans and the Austrians (in my experience) can provide trains which are capacious, clean and punctual at prices that don't make your wallet sting then?
Amazing pension schemes, unions, fantastic pay, 2 or 3 people doing one man's job etc etc.

egor110

16,818 posts

202 months

Sunday 23rd July 2017
quotequote all
Wait Here Until Green Light Shows said:
MitchT said:
How come the Dutch, the Germans and the Austrians (in my experience) can provide trains which are capacious, clean and punctual at prices that don't make your wallet sting then?
Amazing pension schemes, unions, fantastic pay, 2 or 3 people doing one man's job etc etc.
Aren't the train lines run by private companies ?