Discussion
Doofus said:
I do some consulting work for varous clients, through a Ltd Co. Advising on strategy, coaching, project mgt. That kind of thing.
Doofus said:
I don't 'contract', and I never have.
I'm a bit puzzled: you do this work & presumably invoice via your limited company. Why do you think you aren't a contractor?Mr Pointy said:
Doofus said:
I do some consulting work for varous clients, through a Ltd Co. Advising on strategy, coaching, project mgt. That kind of thing.
Doofus said:
I don't 'contract', and I never have.
I'm a bit puzzled: you do this work & presumably invoice via your limited company. Why do you think you aren't a contractor?Doofus said:
Mr Pointy said:
Doofus said:
I do some consulting work for varous clients, through a Ltd Co. Advising on strategy, coaching, project mgt. That kind of thing.
Doofus said:
I don't 'contract', and I never have.
I'm a bit puzzled: you do this work & presumably invoice via your limited company. Why do you think you aren't a contractor?Doofus said:
If somebody goes into a business to train people on first aid, or to do a floorplan, or to install some electrical equipment, is he under contract? If an accountant goes into a business to perform an audit, is he a contractor? I am not a contractor. I don't do contract work.
What's your definition of a contractor then? Surely these firms engage you on the basis of a contract, even if it's in the form of a PO.Edited by Sheepshanks on Thursday 21st June 12:56
bigandclever said:
You’re a braver man than I, doing B2B work without a contract.
So be it. I appreciate the advice and information that's been provided here, but I'm getting a bit tired of needing to repeatedly justify what I do and how I do it.I have been in business as an owner & director for 20+ years. I have a firm of accountants with whom I have worked for more than 10. I have a firm of solicitors who have managed my busniess and personal affairs for a dozen years. They know what they are doing, and so do I (except when it comes to IR35).
I asked about IR35 on here because I hoped to get a quick and easy answer without interrupting somebody's day (given that they'd be on the PH forum anyway, and could choose not to respond if they were busy). I suspect that may have been a mistake.
It's lunatic to engage with another organisation - whether in a business to business arrangement or as an employee - without some form of contract in place. However, even with no written contract in place, contract law will always imply that a contract exists - so whether you think so or not, there will be a contract.
As far as IR35 is concerned, the details set out in a written contract are very useful in determining IR35 status - but they are not sacrosanct.
Finally, as pointed out above, currently, unless dealing with a government agency or department, it is not the job of the hirer to determine IR35 status. It is YOU and it is YOU that have to pay the price if you incorrectly decide that the engagement is outside IR35.
As far as IR35 is concerned, the details set out in a written contract are very useful in determining IR35 status - but they are not sacrosanct.
Finally, as pointed out above, currently, unless dealing with a government agency or department, it is not the job of the hirer to determine IR35 status. It is YOU and it is YOU that have to pay the price if you incorrectly decide that the engagement is outside IR35.
Doofus said:
Because I don't work to, or with a contract. If somebody goes into a business to train people on first aid, or to do a floorplan, or to install some electrical equipment, is he under contract? If an accountant goes into a business to perform an audit, is he a contractor?
The correct answer to all those is yes. You contract to do the training, do the floorplan, install the equipment or undertake the audit whether or not it is written down. You negotiate a fee and a deliverable don't you? That means you enter a contract.FFS!
I advise. I don't [i]do[/]
Of course I have agreements with my clients. I know I said otherwise, but I was trying to make a distinction between working under a contract and 'contracting'.
Having said which, it seems to matter not what one says in a post such as this because people will conclude whatever they wish, and advice/condescend as they see fit.
I advise. I don't [i]do[/]
Of course I have agreements with my clients. I know I said otherwise, but I was trying to make a distinction between working under a contract and 'contracting'.
Having said which, it seems to matter not what one says in a post such as this because people will conclude whatever they wish, and advice/condescend as they see fit.
Sheepshanks said:
I suspect the OP's issue is:
However the difference is a very grey area. When IR35 came along, lots of contractors rebranded themselves as consultants.
Pretty much exactly what i though. It's quite hilairious really.Doofus said:
I do some consulting....
...and he feels being regarded as a contractor is beneath him. However the difference is a very grey area. When IR35 came along, lots of contractors rebranded themselves as consultants.
Sorry - only trying to help.
You have a contract - whatever you may or may not think. Whether the contract is caught by IR35 is
a) not in the power of the hirer to decide (under current rules)
b) based on the way you work with the hirer
That is it, plain and simple.
If they insist that IR35 applies, how would they know that you were applying the IR35 calculations in your company accounts and company tax returns? They have no right to see these workings and they have no power to force you to carry them out.
All you have to do is bill them, charge them VAT if appropriate, and they pay you what you have billed. They have no further involvement in your affairs.
You have a contract - whatever you may or may not think. Whether the contract is caught by IR35 is
a) not in the power of the hirer to decide (under current rules)
b) based on the way you work with the hirer
That is it, plain and simple.
If they insist that IR35 applies, how would they know that you were applying the IR35 calculations in your company accounts and company tax returns? They have no right to see these workings and they have no power to force you to carry them out.
All you have to do is bill them, charge them VAT if appropriate, and they pay you what you have billed. They have no further involvement in your affairs.
Eric Mc said:
Sorry - only trying to help.
You have a contract - whatever you may or may not think. Whether the contract is caught by IR35 is
a) not in the power of the hirer to decide (under current rules)
b) based on the way you work with the hirer
That is it, plain and simple.
If they insist that IR35 applies, how would they know that you were applying the IR35 calculations in your company accounts and company tax returns? They have no right to see these workings and they have no power to force you to carry them out.
All you have to do is bill them, charge them VAT if appropriate, and they pay you what you have billed. They have no further involvement in your affairs.
That makes sense, thank you You have a contract - whatever you may or may not think. Whether the contract is caught by IR35 is
a) not in the power of the hirer to decide (under current rules)
b) based on the way you work with the hirer
That is it, plain and simple.
If they insist that IR35 applies, how would they know that you were applying the IR35 calculations in your company accounts and company tax returns? They have no right to see these workings and they have no power to force you to carry them out.
All you have to do is bill them, charge them VAT if appropriate, and they pay you what you have billed. They have no further involvement in your affairs.
However, I've decided I'm not the manfor the job. This is because I know somebody better suited to thier needs and not, as many on here would suggest, because I am a total f
kwit.Eric Mc said:
If they insist that IR35 applies, how would they know that you were applying the IR35 calculations in your company accounts and company tax returns? They have no right to see these workings and they have no power to force you to carry them out.
Well, they could make all those things conditions of the contract.Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff