R&D Tax Grant Service

R&D Tax Grant Service

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DSLiverpool

Original Poster:

11,472 posts

147 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
Guys after looking into this and the effort involved v reward I decided to use a “facilitator”.
I chose one that’s a bit more expensive but does all the work and extracts the information via an interview technique.
They look at all our projects and decide what to progress with - surprisingly most of them.
They submit and defend the application and only charge on completion in fact 60 days after.
I can’t fault the approach or contract and the 25% commision is fair enough (75% of something or 100% of nothing)
Anyone interested drop me a pm for the guys details.

Jockman

17,080 posts

105 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
A lot of firms in this game, Dave. Wilson Henry in Liverpool even have the claim on their email strapline.

Or you could go with McEwan Wallace if you like lube....

DSLiverpool

Original Poster:

11,472 posts

147 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
Jockman said:
A lot of firms in this game, Dave. Wilson Henry in Liverpool even have the claim on their email strapline.

Or you could go with McEwan Wallace if you like lube....
All contracted up, very happy.
Just in process of changing accountants to McEwans after disasterous flirtation with low cost accountancy, I’m happy to pay them just to feel I’m not the most qualified accountant associated with the company.

Mr Overheads

1,766 posts

121 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
Completely agree, plenty of savings to be had with R&D it's amazing how many companies just use their own non-specialist accountant for it and just get average claims. A good specialist is worth the fee.

You can do the same with Capital Allowances.

DSLiverpool

Original Poster:

11,472 posts

147 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
Mr Overheads said:
You can do the same with Capital Allowances.
Laptops?

Mr Overheads

1,766 posts

121 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
All sorts, door hinges, fire exit signs, plug sockets, parts of walls etc etc.

Jockman

17,080 posts

105 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
DSLiverpool said:
All contracted up, very happy.
Just in process of changing accountants to McEwans after disasterous flirtation with low cost accountancy, I’m happy to pay them just to feel I’m not the most qualified accountant associated with the company.
I was with Alastair nearly 20 years ago. Top bloke, just like his brother.

Very surprised he still does Accountancy as he was moving into more of a business consultancy arena.

Overkill for someone under £10m turnover IMHO but it's your money so do what you like.

DSLiverpool

Original Poster:

11,472 posts

147 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
Jockman said:
I was with Alastair nearly 20 years ago. Top bloke, just like his brother.

Very surprised he still does Accountancy as he was moving into more of a business consultancy arena.

Overkill for someone under £10m turnover IMHO but it's your money so do what you like.
I got a great deal, everything covered inc personal and wages for 1-2% of monthly t/o after having to resubmit our year one accounts I’m happy to pay it.

EddieSteadyGo

4,003 posts

148 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
DSLiverpool said:
Guys after looking into this and the effort involved v reward I decided to use a “facilitator”.
I chose one that’s a bit more expensive but does all the work and extracts the information via an interview technique.
They look at all our projects and decide what to progress with - surprisingly most of them.
They submit and defend the application and only charge on completion in fact 60 days after.
I can’t fault the approach or contract and the 25% commision is fair enough (75% of something or 100% of nothing)
Anyone interested drop me a pm for the guys details.
This is interesting as it is something I wasn't aware of.

I spend quite a bit getting bespoke/complex software tools developed, some of which might quality.

Just looking on google, it seems you can claim in theory 130% of the qualifying costs in addition to the actual cost spend which is already an allowable expense. So, lets assume you had £50k of qualifying costs and with corporation tax being 19%, that would mean (£50,000 x 1.3) x 0.19 = £12,350 reduction in corporation tax. Have I got that right?

Would also be very interesting to know if you can share any examples which you were thinking might not qualify but the experts were happy to include.

DSLiverpool

Original Poster:

11,472 posts

147 months

Wednesday 22nd August 2018
quotequote all
EddieSteadyGo said:
This is interesting as it is something I wasn't aware of.

I spend quite a bit getting bespoke/complex software tools developed, some of which might quality.

Just looking on google, it seems you can claim in theory 130% of the qualifying costs in addition to the actual cost spend which is already an allowable expense. So, lets assume you had £50k of qualifying costs and with corporation tax being 19%, that would mean (£50,000 x 1.3) x 0.19 = £12,350 reduction in corporation tax. Have I got that right?

Would also be very interesting to know if you can share any examples which you were thinking might not qualify but the experts were happy to include.
Your over thinking it, just let them earn the cash and do the work, they will wring every last £ out of it legally so you can only benefit.
I looked at 3 companies the one I chose is big, fair and impressed me.
PM if you want the guys info

sleepezy

831 posts

179 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
Would always use a specialist for R&D tax claims - having been able to do a direct comparison between the claim a 'specialist' from a large accountancy thought they would get and the successful claim we ended up with the difference was staggering.

We negotiated their 'pay' down to 15% year 1 and 10% subsequent but suspect the claim values were a factor of 100 larger so you get buying power! (it was for an experimental power plant so the investment costs were huge!)

DSL - see if you can get the fella to give you and intro fee / commission - I've agreed one with the guy I used (which I always disclose to my clients) - can add up for very little effort smile

DSLiverpool

Original Poster:

11,472 posts

147 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
sleepezy said:
DSL - see if you can get the fella to give you and intro fee / commission - I've agreed one with the guy I used (which I always disclose to my clients) - can add up for very little effort smile
One of our clients uses his accountant and had £150k plus last year, I have referred him to the new company but didn't think to ask for an affiliate bounty - maybe I will.

cashmax

624 posts

185 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
I really don't understand why most firms would need a specialist for this.

I was able to submit claims for the maximum amount, very easily and without spending weeks on it and have been able to continue to do this for more than a decade.

It's not rocket science.

DSLiverpool

Original Poster:

11,472 posts

147 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
cashmax said:
I really don't understand why most firms would need a specialist for this.

I was able to submit claims for the maximum amount, very easily and without spending weeks on it and have been able to continue to do this for more than a decade.

It's not rocket science.
I wasn’t aware of a maximum amount?

sleepezy

831 posts

179 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
I'm not going to put myself out as a specialist in the area so may put my foot in it with this answer smile but:

Cashmax - not sure what you mean by the maximum amount. Unless you mean you're claiming for 100% of your costs (possible I guess) then how do you know it's the maximum? There's no absolute £ limit to the value of a claim that I am aware of. In my (limited) experience the specialist went about it from a completely different position and can argue all the foibles of the legislation to the maximum advantage - to put this in perspective the large firm said they thought our claim should be about £150k per year for 2 years - our eventual claim exceeded £4m for the same period, although I do appreciate it was a very specialist claim.

The last one I intro'd the Chairman resolutely said he had claimed the maximum amount (about £70k for 1 year) and was very verbose about his experience - in the end we got a multiple of this by arguing associated costs as well as direct.

But I don't know you so you may already know all the tricks beer

DSL - to give you a steer, aim for 20-15% of their fee as an intro but maybe lower if the claim values are less.

StevieBee

7,879 posts

200 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
We've twice used a company called Shenco. Very very good and worth every penny.

Unknown to us, they found an additional £6k following the initial claim (which was £22k). Only knew when they sent the email to say that £6k would be landing in our account.


StevieBee

7,879 posts

200 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
cashmax said:
I really don't understand why most firms would need a specialist for this.
I think the need differs from business to business.

Having looked at it before, we abandoned it because of the time needed and that from what we could see, the return wasn't there.

What our guys did was identify things that we didn't think count, for example, the costs associated with failed tenders.

EddieSteadyGo

4,003 posts

148 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
cashmax said:
I really don't understand why most firms would need a specialist for this.
I think the need differs from business to business.

Having looked at it before, we abandoned it because of the time needed and that from what we could see, the return wasn't there.

What our guys did was identify things that we didn't think count, for example, the costs associated with failed tenders.
I'm persuaded that it probably makes sense to use a specialist. I asked my accountant today whether he had considered suggesting it to me - he said when you look at the detail it was very difficult to meet all of the criteria and so he didn't think it was suitable.

So I spoke to a company today called Forrest Brown and have setup an meeting with them tomorrow afternoon. It was an interesting initial call as they were suggesting allocating portions of staff costs and including activities which I wasn't aware could be possible. They are asking for 20% of the tax savings. I think maybe we could get to £75k of qualifying costs which would equate to circa £19k of corporation tax saving. If that were possible a 20% fee seems reasonable.



DSLiverpool

Original Poster:

11,472 posts

147 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
I agree and the reason I used the company I did settle on was that they had never had a reclaim they couldn’t defend - no other company had that plus their references were compelling hence I don’t mind 5% more.

EddieSteadyGo

4,003 posts

148 months

Thursday 23rd August 2018
quotequote all
DSLiverpool said:
I agree and the reason I used the company I did settle on was that they had never had a reclaim they couldn’t defend - no other company had that plus their references were compelling hence I don’t mind 5% more.
Makes sense - and thanks again for starting the thread. I had entirely missing this and it is definitely worth exploring further.