Making tax digital - VAT

Making tax digital - VAT

Author
Discussion

johnhemming

55 posts

7 months

Saturday 27th July
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
All completely straightforward, isn't it.
Most of the time yes. From time to time it will go wrong and it is up to people whether they wish to understand how to deal with those situations or just spend hours on the phone to suppliers and HMRC.

Eric Mc

107,439 posts

210 months

Saturday 27th July
quotequote all
Is it worth it?

For traders who once just popped a paper form into an envelope, this is a whole world of complicatedness in comparison.

Should business be forced to jump to the tune of government agencies in this way?

Should businesses really have to do something a particular way just because a government agency says this way and no other"?

Why are we so prepared to fall over ourselves to accommodate Civil Servants who want more and more information about us?

johnhemming

55 posts

7 months

Sunday 28th July
quotequote all
We don't have enough information as yet to work out whether it is worth doing this.

What I can say is that many countries are bringing in electronic links between the tax authorities and businesses particularly for VAT. The OECD have a standard format of audit file called SAF-T.

Many European countries are bringing in SAF-T where copies of invoices are sent to the tax authorities. In Italy I think this happens before the invoice is issued.

The UK has a simpler system whereby there is automatic calculation of the boxes and it can be done as late as after the end of the period. Hence people who keep manual records can keep them and have someone (their agent) type them up at the end of the quarter and submit the totals.

I had a client come to me on Friday who was a small business with a small number of transactions who found they could not use Apple hardware with other suppliers. I introduced them to my cloud cashbook into which they typed their manual records in under 30 mins. (I don't know the precise time it was probably something like 5 mins).

I personally think MTD is easier than SAF-T. It does not have to cost an arm and a leg (in fact my services are free). It does not have to take a lot of time dealing with it.

I accept that some of my competitors are using this as a scheme to milk their client base, but it is a free market and there are over 400 suppliers.


Edited by johnhemming on Sunday 28th July 11:27

williaa68

1,281 posts

111 months

Sunday 28th July
quotequote all
I am struggling to get MTD to work with quickbooks. Although I have successfully registered and have an email from HMRC confirming this, when I log on to the HMRC website it says I need to be an administrator - I think this may be because my accountant used to do my vat but doesn't any more. Can I get them removed? If I can't get this sorted before I go on holiday (on Tuesday!), should I just pay the VAT anyway? Thanks in advance.

Eric Mc

107,439 posts

210 months

Sunday 28th July
quotequote all
I told ya - it's the agents that cause all the problems smile

snuffy

4,917 posts

229 months

Sunday 28th July
quotequote all
williaa68 said:
I am struggling to get MTD to work with quickbooks. Although I have successfully registered and have an email from HMRC confirming this, when I log on to the HMRC website it says I need to be an administrator - I think this may be because my accountant used to do my vat but doesn't any more. Can I get them removed? If I can't get this sorted before I go on holiday (on Tuesday!), should I just pay the VAT anyway? Thanks in advance.
The HMRC online 9-box thing still works I think so I'd just use that and pay as normal. Better to pay them I'd say.

Smiler.

10,130 posts

175 months

Monday 29th July
quotequote all
I thought I'd already signed up for MTD, but apparently only Online Filing, this being direct from the software as opposed to filling in the form on the HMRC site.
I've filed three returns this way but couldn't do one today. Completed the HMRC online application process so up to 72 hrs for the email.

williaa68

1,281 posts

111 months

Monday 29th July
quotequote all
williaa68 said:
I am struggling to get MTD to work with quickbooks. Although I have successfully registered and have an email from HMRC confirming this, when I log on to the HMRC website it says I need to be an administrator - I think this may be because my accountant used to do my vat but doesn't any more. Can I get them removed? If I can't get this sorted before I go on holiday (on Tuesday!), should I just pay the VAT anyway? Thanks in advance.
I actually managed to speak to someone helpful at HMRC who tracked down the correct gateway account, disconnected the old one and my submission has now gone through. Am not sure what HMRC gains but at least I can go on holiday and not worry!

loafer123

8,927 posts

160 months

Monday 29th July
quotequote all
Smiler. said:
I thought I'd already signed up for MTD, but apparently only Online Filing, this being direct from the software as opposed to filling in the form on the HMRC site.
I've filed three returns this way but couldn't do one today. Completed the HMRC online application process so up to 72 hrs for the email.
I found them quicker for two different businesses, so hopefully you should be OK.

I have now filed the first returns for both using TaxCalc, and it has been pretty easy.

Smiler.

10,130 posts

175 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
I found them quicker for two different businesses, so hopefully you should be OK.

I have now filed the first returns for both using TaxCalc, and it has been pretty easy.
Got the notification from HMRC this morning.

Followed the instructions at the pop-up within the software.

10 seconds later, all done.

Eric Mc

107,439 posts

210 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
We'll all get there in the end.

snuffy

4,917 posts

229 months

Tuesday 30th July
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I think I've spotted yet another step backwards:

I've just logged onto my HMRC VAT account. On submitted returns I can either select returns for 2019 or Previous Returns. If a select Previous Returns it takes me off to the old submission pages and I can see all my previous returns and there's still the option of downloading each return as a PDF file. That's great as I just print that off and stick it in my accounts file.

But if I select 2019 returns it will show me the last return on a webpage only; there's no download as PDF option.

So that's another step backwards with MTD (at least I think it is).

loafer123

8,927 posts

160 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
snuffy said:
I think I've spotted yet another step backwards:

I've just logged onto my HMRC VAT account. On submitted returns I can either select returns for 2019 or Previous Returns. If a select Previous Returns it takes me off to the old submission pages and I can see all my previous returns and there's still the option of downloading each return as a PDF file. That's great as I just print that off and stick it in my accounts file.

But if I select 2019 returns it will show me the last return on a webpage only; there's no download as PDF option.

So that's another step backwards with MTD (at least I think it is).
Can you not print to PDF?

If you don't have Microsoft Print to PDF, try installing CutePDF as a printer - it is free I think.

akirk

3,164 posts

59 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
snuffy said:
I think I've spotted yet another step backwards:

I've just logged onto my HMRC VAT account. On submitted returns I can either select returns for 2019 or Previous Returns. If a select Previous Returns it takes me off to the old submission pages and I can see all my previous returns and there's still the option of downloading each return as a PDF file. That's great as I just print that off and stick it in my accounts file.

But if I select 2019 returns it will show me the last return on a webpage only; there's no download as PDF option.

So that's another step backwards with MTD (at least I think it is).
Can you not print to PDF?

If you don't have Microsoft Print to PDF, try installing CutePDF as a printer - it is free I think.
exactly this - and it formats fine for PDF
mind you - wouldn't have been difficult for HMRC to throw in a PDF creator bit of code - hardly complex content!

snuffy

4,917 posts

229 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
Yes, I can print to pdf.

But my point being that the old system had it and the new system doesn't. Surely MTD is supposed to be better ?

snuffy

4,917 posts

229 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
akirk said:
mind you - wouldn't have been difficult for HMRC to throw in a PDF creator bit of code - hardly complex content!
Especially as they have already done it on the old system.

akirk

3,164 posts

59 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
snuffy said:
akirk said:
mind you - wouldn't have been difficult for HMRC to throw in a PDF creator bit of code - hardly complex content!
Especially as they have already done it on the old system.
Even if they hadn't it is probably no more than a day's work (6 hours of HMRC form filling and 2 hours of coding!)

plasticpig

11,128 posts

170 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
snuffy said:
Yes, I can print to pdf.

But my point being that the old system had it and the new system doesn't. Surely MTD is supposed to be better ?
The clue is in the title of this thread. A digital tax system should not require paper print outs.

Eric Mc

107,439 posts

210 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
A pdf can be stored electronically - so no paper necessarily involved. They also carry the same legal status as a paper document, so they are good evidence to have in any dispute.

jw673

50 posts

61 months

Tuesday 30th July
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
That's not the point. The INSTITUTION has inherent problems and is generally becoming the dominant force in the British Civil Service - more or less wanting to take over not just other civil service divisions, but reach into our personal and business lives in a way that would not have been countenanced not that long ago.
Today's FT, page 9 ("FT Big Read. Global Economy"), "The taxman's digital dream" re: Russia's new real-time tax system.

An authoritarian state leads the way. HMRC will surely follow...