Making tax digital

[snuffy]

Eric Mc said:

HMRC are currently saying "bridging software" which allows you to transfer speadsheet data to a submission compatible format is just a temporary concession. They really do want you to buy proper software before too long.

Well, their website makes no mention of that:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/software-for-sending-i...

I suspect if that is the case they will have a lot of screaming suppliers and companies who have bought it on to them.

[PurpleMoonlight]

snuffy said:

Well, their website makes no mention of that:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/software-for-sending-i...

I suspect if that is the case they will have a lot of screaming suppliers and companies who have bought it on to them.

Although HMRC deny it, nobody really believes that their eventual desire is not to receive all the background transaction details as well as the totals.

[snuffy]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Although HMRC deny it, nobody really believes that their eventual desire is not to receive all the background transaction details as well as the totals.

I suspect that is correct.

But then;

HMRC send you a VAT demand; and how do they know how much you owe ? Because you have to tell them.

HMRC send you an Income tax demand; and how do they know how much you owe ? Because you have to tell them.

HMRC send you a Corporation tax demand; and how do they know how much you owe ? Because you have to tell them.

So they are so far doing nothing.

Then, for example, 3 months ago, I wanted to leave their flat rate scheme because at 16.5% now you will actually lose money. And how does the oh-so-up-to-date HMRC allow you to change back to normal VAT ? By email ? Nope. Online, via your VAT account ? Nope. Oh yes, you can only send them a letter. And long did it takes them to acknowledge my letter ? 2 months !!

HMRC do almost nothing and they fail to do that in a timely manner. So God help them if they want to look at every single transaction from every single business in the UK.

[snuffy]

Back to the matter in hand:

I coughed up my £40. I had the email receipt, then the links to download the software and manual. So I created a new spreadsheet, linked the cells and I all ready to go, but; you need a username and password from them (one email said it will follow shortly) but so far I've received that info. Hopefully it will arrive on Monday.

[Eric Mc]

The chancellor specifically said that "bridging software" would be allowed up to April 2020.

However, God knows where we will be in April 2020 and who the Chancellor will be by then.

From the very start of the MTD project, HMRC has stated quite vociferously its opposition to data based on spreadsheets. Initially they stated that spreadsheets were simply not compliant with the requirements of MTD. They have since back tracked but have said that this is a temporary concession.

[The Don of Croy]

What I don't understand is, in my example, we've been using Sage Line 50 Pro for ten years and (like many software packages) it produces reams of stats if required, all of which might be of interest to HMRC.

But because of IT shortcomings we have to upgrade the PC and also the software, but without knowing what the advantage is to us, or HMRC. So a temporary bonanza for the suppliers and a period of flux for those involved.

Still, at least there's nothing else to upset the smooth running of trade on the horizon...

[snuffy]

The Don of Croy said:

But because of IT shortcomings we have to upgrade the PC and also the software, but without knowing what the advantage is to us, or HMRC. So a temporary bonanza for the suppliers and a period of flux for those involved.

Yes, that was my original point; i.e. we all have to upgrade for what exactly ? That's why I suggested that it stinks of someone being on a back-hander.

[Eric Mc]

snuffy said:

Yes, that was my original point; i.e. we all have to upgrade for what exactly ?

You and at least a few million others.

[PurpleMoonlight]

I am convinced the Government are deliberately using this sort of exercise to stimulate the ecomony.

Demand something in a specific way.

Software developers have to employ more people to provide the way.

Business has to pay for the new software to satisfy the 'demand'.

[C Lee Farquar]

Eric Mc said:

From the very start of the MTD project, HMRC has stated quite vociferously its opposition to data based on spreadsheets. Initially they stated that spreadsheets were simply not compliant with the requirements of MTD. They have since back tracked but have said that this is a temporary concession.

I'm not a software geek but surely all these accounts programs are all spreadsheets with a fancy 'front end'?

Eric, do you know if HMRC consider the packages less easy to fiddle or less liable to human error?

I've used Excel for 20 plus years, originally based on the handwritten system my Accountant asked for. With some trepidation I'm moving to Xero. I find with Excel it's extremely easy to cross check by highlighting columns etc. and everything is visible and transparent. I'm not looking forward to losing that.

[Eric Mc]

It's the ability to drill down into accounts to see the original data entries. HMRC has long sought this facility and they do hope to get this capability at some point in the future.

[snuffy]

What a bunch of clowns HMRC are.

I knew you had to submit your VAT return via the new MTD method from April 2019, but I thought I'd do it from this month (October to December quarter). It turns out you can't unless you have registered for their pilot scheme.

So they send you all this crap and you can't do it anyway - fking tosspots.

However, these people (https://www.absoluteexcelvatfiler.co.uk/pages/absolute-excel-vat-filer) have been very good. It seems that even though I bought it this weekend, the 13 month licence does not start until you submit your first VAT return using it.

[LeighW]

snuffy said:

What a bunch of clowns HMRC are.

I knew you had to submit your VAT return via the new MTD method from April 2019, but I thought I'd do it from this month (October to December quarter). It turns out you can't unless you have registered for their pilot scheme.

So they send you all this crap and you can't do it anyway - fking tosspots.

However, these people (https://www.absoluteexcelvatfiler.co.uk/pages/absolute-excel-vat-filer) have been very good. It seems that even though I bought it this weekend, the 13 month licence does not start until you submit your first VAT return using it.

If you join the pilot scheme in advance, you cannot then use the old method to file. MTD is only required for VAT periods starting on or after 1st April 2019, so for quarterly returns, that's the quarter ended 30th June at the earliest. I'd hang fire for now.

[Gary C]

Eric Mc said:

Wedge.
Thin
Of
The
End
The

Arrange the above words in the correct order.

Humm

The end of the thin wedge ?

[snuffy]

LeighW said:

If you join the pilot scheme in advance, you cannot then use the old method to file. MTD is only required for VAT periods starting on or after 1st April 2019, so for quarterly returns, that's the quarter ended 30th June at the earliest. I'd hang fire for now.

Yes, that's right.

But whilst they say you MUST do it from April 2019, they don't really make it obvious you can't just do it anyway before that date (unless, as you say, you join the pilot scheme).

Again, you are correct because my next quarter is Jan - March, so the first one I need (i.e. can) to do it for April - June 2019.

Here was me trying to be all organised but what's the point because HMRC could not organise a wk in a brothel.

[Terminator X]

snuffy said:

Then, for example, 3 months ago, I wanted to leave their flat rate scheme because at 16.5% now you will actually lose money. And how does the oh-so-up-to-date HMRC allow you to change back to normal VAT ? By email ? Nope. Online, via your VAT account ? Nope. Oh yes, you can only send them a letter. And long did it takes them to acknowledge my letter ? 2 months !!

I did the same and they never even acknowledged the letter; I just started to log it differently and further they've said nothing since.

TX.

[akirk]

it is an interesting exercise...

so we joined the pilot scheme - and signed up for the api as a developer (we have our own internal system that manages our projects and produces the VAT figures...)

we have been through the development process and written our own code to submit MTD figures through the API - it is pretty simple
then we went through a validation process which involved a conference call with the HMRC dev. team - and sharing our screens / system
they approved it - all they were checking for was that the figures made sense and would be submitted in a valid format (i.e. even where a figure is negative it is probably submitted as a positive - but a payment in the opposite direction), they then checked the return - all looked valid...

the one down side is that they haven't yet put our 'application' live and we now have a return to make which is on hold!

however, if we (company of 3 - though of course in true pH fashion -phenomenally clever!) can write MTD VAT returns into our in-house software for our own use - it really is not all that complex... for those referring to spreadsheets, yes, basically any of this software is a spreadsheet in the background / some pretty screens and buttons in front and some script to do something - it is really not very complex!

[snuffy]

Terminator X said:

snuffy said:

Then, for example, 3 months ago, I wanted to leave their flat rate scheme because at 16.5% now you will actually lose money. And how does the oh-so-up-to-date HMRC allow you to change back to normal VAT ? By email ? Nope. Online, via your VAT account ? Nope. Oh yes, you can only send them a letter. And long did it takes them to acknowledge my letter ? 2 months !!

I did the same and they never even acknowledged the letter; I just started to log it differently and further they've said nothing since.

TX.

That's what I would have done as well, even if they'd not bothered to reply.

The thing that amazes me is that flat rate VAT was introduced in 2002 but HMRC could not even be arsed to update their webform. So you just had to fiddle the boxes to fit (and they even gave you the instructions on what to put in each box because it was too much like hard work for them to produce a flat rate webform).17 years and the lazy bds could not update a simple form on a webpage.

[WinstonWolf]

PurpleMoonlight said:

snuffy said:

I've been looking into this since I will file my VAT this way now.

In a nut shell the software I've been using for 20 years (yes it's old, but it does all I need) is not compliant and it will not be updated to be so, so I have to use one of the approved applications.

But you can't buy any of these approved applications, you have to rent them. At least I can't find one that you can buy. And the going rate is about £150 - £200 a year, every year.

So it's going to cost me £200 or so every year from now on, i.e. an expensive I did not have before.

It reeks of a massive backhander for someone in Government here.

Do you currently file the VAT return manually using the data from your software?

We did. I was a bit grumpy about paying for QB online as I'd quite happily been using an ancient version of Sage from day one. The time saving on reconciliation alone makes it worth the money. A few hours work now takes a couple of minutes...

[snuffy]

akirk said:

however, if we (company of 3 - though of course in true pH fashion -phenomenally clever!) can write MTD VAT returns into our in-house software for our own use - it really is not all that complex... for those referring to spreadsheets, yes, basically any of this software is a spreadsheet in the background / some pretty screens and buttons in front and some script to do something - it is really not very complex!

Yep, its' just an approved spreadsheet that submits exactly the same data as you do on their website (by typing the numbers in) but in a format their new portal understands. So with the spreadsheet bridging software you are just paying a third party to submit your return on your behalf.

Can you tell my piss is boiling with all this MTD bks ?