Making tax digital

Author
Discussion

Eric Mc

121,776 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
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I'm hopeful that the learning curve flattens out quite quickly - until they change it all again at some future date.

Big E 118

2,408 posts

168 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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I set up my MTD VAT returns with a Sage subscription ( I used Sage already) which isn't too bad cost wise, I've now submitted the last two VAT returns through Sage online and received confirmation emails and had both amounts Direct Debited from my bank account.

Received a letter from HMRC yesterday saying I'm not signed up for MTD and they haven't received payment of my last VAT return, no mention of the first one though. I'll ask my accountant to sort but surely if this is an automated system, they've requested and received two payments via direct debit how can the system then lose a payment?


Eric Mc

121,776 posts

264 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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Are you sure you actually submitted using MTD? Sage has allowed direct submission from their own software for a number of years using the old "pre MTD" regime. I know because I've been operating this a for a number of years for a client.

In circumstances like this, MTD offers absolutely nothing different to what Sage was already providing - except the extra hassle required in switching thee filing method from "pre MTD" to "MTD".

Big E 118

2,408 posts

168 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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Eric Mc said:
Are you sure you actually submitted using MTD? Sage has allowed direct submission from their own software for a number of years using the old "pre MTD" regime. I know because I've been operating this a for a number of years for a client.

In circumstances like this, MTD offers absolutely nothing different to what Sage was already providing - except the extra hassle required in switching thee filing method from "pre MTD" to "MTD".
How would I tell the difference in Sage as to whether it's set up for direct submission or MTD? Can't see anything after a cursory glance.

Eric Mc

121,776 posts

264 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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Setting up for MTD would have involved you getting new Government Gateway access codes etc. If you went through that set-up process, you are most likely on the new system. If you didn't, then you might still be filing the old fashioned way. For the moment, HMRC are allowing traders to file using the old method as they finally, and very belatedly, realised that many traders were struggling to make the switch. I do not think that this concession will last long.

There may be a situation where you HAVE made the switch to the new system but when you made the actual VAT return submission, you filed it under the old system.

Has your accountant been involved in assisting you in this changeover?

Big E 118

2,408 posts

168 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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Ok, think I've figured it out. I didn't realise you had to have new Government Gateway account so I've set up Sage using my existing Gateway details.

I've clearly made the mistake of thinking it would be more simple than it was to set up so said I'd do it myself. I have a meeting with my accountant next week and will pass over to him then.

Thanks for your advice Eric, appreciated.

LeighW

4,360 posts

187 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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Big E 118 said:
How would I tell the difference in Sage as to whether it's set up for direct submission or MTD? Can't see anything after a cursory glance.
Firstly, you need to register for MTD, which you can do via your Government Gateway VAT login.

Then, on your Sage, go to: Tools > Company Preferences > VAT. In the popup box, in 'VAT details' you need to tick the box 'enable making tax digital for VAT submissions'. If that box isn't there, you're not on the most up to date version which is MTD compliant.

Eric Mc

121,776 posts

264 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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LeighW said:
Firstly, you need to register for MTD, which you can do via your Government Gateway VAT login.

Then, on your Sage, go to: Tools > Company Preferences > VAT. In the popup box, in 'VAT details' you need to tick the box 'enable making tax digital for VAT submissions'. If that box isn't there, you're not on the most up to date version which is MTD compliant.
Useful stuff - thanks.

Each software you use will have their own way of getting "VAT MTD" to work. I'm using "Iris VAT Filer" as my bridging software and it worked fine (eventually). One little quirk I did find was that it did not recognise Excel files that were of an older persuasion. It could see the folder holding the file but could not read the file. Once I realised what the problem was, the simple solution was to update the file to a more recent version of Excel and then it all worked.

Big E 118

2,408 posts

168 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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LeighW said:
Big E 118 said:
How would I tell the difference in Sage as to whether it's set up for direct submission or MTD? Can't see anything after a cursory glance.
Firstly, you need to register for MTD, which you can do via your Government Gateway VAT login.

Then, on your Sage, go to: Tools > Company Preferences > VAT. In the popup box, in 'VAT details' you need to tick the box 'enable making tax digital for VAT submissions'. If that box isn't there, you're not on the most up to date version which is MTD compliant.
Thanks, un-ticked. Have registered online for MTD and will await confirmation then tick the box.

My mistake was thinking that once submitting through compliant software using gateway ID it would be MTD! Of course it couldn't be that simple.....



LeighW

4,360 posts

187 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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Eric Mc said:
Each software you use will have their own way of getting "VAT MTD" to work. I'm using "Iris VAT Filer" as my bridging software and it worked fine (eventually). One little quirk I did find was that it did not recognise Excel files that were of an older persuasion. It could see the folder holding the file but could not read the file. Once I realised what the problem was, the simple solution was to update the file to a more recent version of Excel and then it all worked.
We had the same on Absolute VAT Filer. A client sent us his spreadsheet that had been completed on an older version, and the start and end dates for the quarter wouldn't work. Once updated to a newer version, it worked fine. All good fun. Maybe...



Eric Mc

121,776 posts

264 months

Wednesday 4th September 2019
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To me, it indicates that such problems will recur over the forthcoming years as software systems and apps get upgraded and MTD based software has to hop and jump about to keep everything compatible.

As you say, fun and games - without end.

johnhemming

70 posts

61 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
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It is, of course, possible to write more generally compatible software by using things like internet protocols.

However, you are right that there are more challenges in the future. Self Assessment, for example, does involve quite a few changes in the way in which data is submitted although the underlying MTD protocols are much the same.


Keep it stiff

1,762 posts

172 months

Friday 27th September 2019
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I having been sailing along blissfully thinking that this change did not apply to my business which is on the flat rate scheme, HMRC letter arrives today informing me otherwise! I raise two or three invoices a month and pay about a dozen, is it realistic to be able to subscribe with spreadsheet submission for this level of activity?

egomeister

6,698 posts

262 months

Friday 27th September 2019
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Keep it stiff said:
I having been sailing along blissfully thinking that this change did not apply to my business which is on the flat rate scheme, HMRC letter arrives today informing me otherwise! I raise two or three invoices a month and pay about a dozen, is it realistic to be able to subscribe with spreadsheet submission for this level of activity?
egomeister said:
I used this free solution: http://www.comsci.co.uk/100PcVatFreeBridge.html

Pretty easy to use, and seems to have worked fine for me.

Eric Mc

121,776 posts

264 months

Saturday 28th September 2019
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Keep it stiff said:
I having been sailing along blissfully thinking that this change did not apply to my business which is on the flat rate scheme, HMRC letter arrives today informing me otherwise! I raise two or three invoices a month and pay about a dozen, is it realistic to be able to subscribe with spreadsheet submission for this level of activity?
Does your 12 monthly turnover (sales) figure exceed £85,000?

Keep it stiff

1,762 posts

172 months

Saturday 28th September 2019
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Eric Mc said:
Does your 12 monthly turnover (sales) figure exceed £85,000?
Yes.

Eric Mc

121,776 posts

264 months

Saturday 28th September 2019
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Then it applies.

C Lee Farquar

4,066 posts

215 months

Sunday 29th September 2019
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Just a note to relate my experiences.

I've used Excel for over 20 years to do my accounts. After considering various options I decided to change to Xero. We did use the services of a local chap (a Xero partner) for the migration and ongoing support as required, which we pay for as used.

It's all been trouble free and is saving us quite a bit of time. Our first automated VAT payment went through seamlessly.

johnhemming

70 posts

61 months

Thursday 3rd October 2019
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Keep it stiff said:
I having been sailing along blissfully thinking that this change did not apply to my business which is on the flat rate scheme, HMRC letter arrives today informing me otherwise! I raise two or three invoices a month and pay about a dozen, is it realistic to be able to subscribe with spreadsheet submission for this level of activity?
This is the sort of thing that can be solved very easily with bridging or something like a cloud cashbook (which is like an online spreadsheet that calculates VAT and sends the correct figures to HMRC).

snuffy

9,660 posts

283 months

Wednesday 16th October 2019
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This came today:



I've completed it yet but I would not be surprised if it even works properly.