New business, new product
Discussion
Does anyone have any recommended reading for someone completely clueless about starting a business, developing and bringng a new product to market (i.e. prototyping, patenting, marketing etc.). I know any Google/Amazon search will produce plenty of results but personal recommendations, particularly from anyone who has done similar would be much appreciated.
I've just been reading The 7 Day Startup: You Don't Learn Until You Launch - Dan Norris which is online focused, but much still applies It's a quick read but useful points.
Also in the tech sector, Eric Reis - The Lean Startus is a bible, though I also like Steve Blank's How To Build a Startup (there are some good YouTube videos that are old, but pretty much started the "whiteboard presentation" video trend).
Key things are - don't spend ages (and a fortune) building something before you go to the market to find out if you're right. Find your audience, test out ideas with them and be prepared to change tack when you get new information from them. Build as little as possible before you start testing out your market.
Also in the tech sector, Eric Reis - The Lean Startus is a bible, though I also like Steve Blank's How To Build a Startup (there are some good YouTube videos that are old, but pretty much started the "whiteboard presentation" video trend).
Key things are - don't spend ages (and a fortune) building something before you go to the market to find out if you're right. Find your audience, test out ideas with them and be prepared to change tack when you get new information from them. Build as little as possible before you start testing out your market.
LimaDelta said:
(i.e. prototyping, patenting, marketing etc.).
Tuna said:
Build as little as possible before you start testing out your market.
Agreed, many spend far too much on overly ambitious launches. Just wanted to flag up that in the UK a patent application is one of those things that has to be filed before any kind of public disclosure.
This is because in the UK (and most of the world), a public disclosure of your product could prevent you from being able to apply for a patent, even your own disclosure. Keep it confidential, ideally with an NDA. NDAs are not great and only work before launch, but they are the best way to defer a patent filing date as long as possible.
A US-written book for startups may not give this advice, because the US has a 12 month grace period for (e.g.) testing the market before filing, whereas we don't. A US-written book may also advise cost-conscious startups to self-draft and file a provisional patent application, which a professional can tidy up later without flouting the law. Again, this is US-only. This ended in heartbreak for someone I know.
Therefore, intellectual property advice from books is very sensitive to a) being for the wrong country, or b) going out of date quickly.
You will want to formulate an IP strategy at least to get things straight in your mind (and attract grant/investor buy-in if applicable). You could cover a lot of ground from a free patent attorney consultation even if you don't use their services. Some investors/grant advisors give good free IP strategy advice.
Can I just put in this thread one nugget I was taught by “an inventor” who used overseas manufacture.
If your not big enough to fight world wide legal battles on design infringement from before day 1.
Source parts of the item separately and assemble here (if possible), it won’t help after launch but will avoid seeing your product launched before you!!
It’s possible China has some morals now but I don’t think so at lower medium level.
If your not big enough to fight world wide legal battles on design infringement from before day 1.
Source parts of the item separately and assemble here (if possible), it won’t help after launch but will avoid seeing your product launched before you!!
It’s possible China has some morals now but I don’t think so at lower medium level.
Grrbang said:
Agreed, many spend far too much on overly ambitious launches.
It's a very hard habit to break. I'm an engineer and want to see things working first - but a full patent application would delay getting products to market by months if not years. Which is a problem if the first people you hand it to then say "but this isn't quite what we wanted".All of the books I've read recommend getting out of the office and talking to people first - proving the concept - before building things. I'm trying to do that with a couple of product ideas I have, but not being a marketing guy, it's really tough going. I guess it's an important lesson though: if I can't find the audience to discuss the ideas with, how will I ever sell them?
(PS. Anyone wanting to talk about founding of tech based companies, whether it's games, leisure products or more industry based solutions - I'm still hunting for forums/groups/whatever)
Tuna said:
It's a very hard habit to break. I'm an engineer and want to see things working first - but a full patent application would delay getting products to market by months if not years. Which is a problem if the first people you hand it to then say "but this isn't quite what we wanted".
It's not necessary to get it granted prior to launch - that would be a long wait. It's only necessary to file the application before launching the product. Therefore, launch dates are generally not delayed by patent filings, at least not significantly.Tuna said:
All of the books I've read recommend getting out of the office and talking to people first - proving the concept - before building things. I'm trying to do that with a couple of product ideas I have, but not being a marketing guy, it's really tough going. I guess it's an important lesson though: if I can't find the audience to discuss the ideas with, how will I ever sell them?
Perhaps the books forgot to mention that those conversations should be under NDA if the product has strong IP. You've hit on a big issue which is that it's daunting to develop a great plan on your own. Some of the tightest startup business plans I've seen are from companies that got external advice. Not all external advice is good external advice, but most tight strategies I've seen have been linked to external advice. External advice can come in many forms, such as investors, grant-funding bodies (e.g. ERDF, innovate UK), university-linked funded consultancy, etc. Some of them can help with product development costs including IP protection.
Grrbang said:
Tuna said:
It's a very hard habit to break. I'm an engineer and want to see things working first - but a full patent application would delay getting products to market by months if not years. Which is a problem if the first people you hand it to then say "but this isn't quite what we wanted".
It's not necessary to get it granted prior to launch - that would be a long wait. It's only necessary to file the application before launching the product. Therefore, launch dates are generally not delayed by patent filings, at least not significantly.Grrbang said:
Tuna said:
All of the books I've read recommend getting out of the office and talking to people first - proving the concept - before building things. I'm trying to do that with a couple of product ideas I have, but not being a marketing guy, it's really tough going. I guess it's an important lesson though: if I can't find the audience to discuss the ideas with, how will I ever sell them?
Perhaps the books forgot to mention that those conversations should be under NDA if the product has strong IP. You've hit on a big issue which is that it's daunting to develop a great plan on your own. Some of the tightest startup business plans I've seen are from companies that got external advice. Not all external advice is good external advice, but most tight strategies I've seen have been linked to external advice. External advice can come in many forms, such as investors, grant-funding bodies (e.g. ERDF, innovate UK), university-linked funded consultancy, etc. Some of them can help with product development costs including IP protection.
Certainly external advice is welcome. The challenge is usually finding people who're "right" for the sort of project you're developing. Being told by a venture capitalist that you just need a team of 20 and your first half-million worth of sales is not always that helpful!
LimaDelta said:
Does anyone have any recommended reading for someone completely clueless about starting a business, developing and bringng a new product to market (i.e. prototyping, patenting, marketing etc.). I know any Google/Amazon search will produce plenty of results but personal recommendations, particularly from anyone who has done similar would be much appreciated.
Do you want to share a rough idea of what sort of product this is? B2C? B2B? Target industry?Tuna said:
LimaDelta said:
Does anyone have any recommended reading for someone completely clueless about starting a business, developing and bringng a new product to market (i.e. prototyping, patenting, marketing etc.). I know any Google/Amazon search will produce plenty of results but personal recommendations, particularly from anyone who has done similar would be much appreciated.
Do you want to share a rough idea of what sort of product this is? B2C? B2B? Target industry?LimaDelta said:
Fitness equipment. Mid to high end. A very strong USP with nothing comparable on the market (at least nothing using the core tech), and will be sold to gyms and direct to end users.
Go and talk to your nearest independent gym (under NDA) and find out if they'd be willing to put in an order for what you're proposing - pitch to them and see if they see what you see. Equally, ask them if they'd let you put out a questionnaire or talk to their clients.A solid order or a robust promise would really help your business case.
Edited by Tuna on Tuesday 21st July 21:00
Tuna said:
Indeed - though in many cases the emphasis on IP protection is not relevant depending on the product. I'm not aware of any projects any of the teams I've worked with ever being "saved" through strong IP. Mainly the fact that it's hard to get a working thing to market at all is a more effective deterrent, and when it does come to some other company putting in the effort to replicate your idea - the company that has the resources to do that probably has the resources to win an IP battle. That said, this is very industry specific - your mileage and personal experience may vary.
You raise some interesting points about context and perspective. I think most types of businesses don't need patents or can't get them - not the right type of 'innovative'. Free copyright/design right protects a lot of industry sectors and that's fine. Could that describe your sector?
I can comment on some of the reasons for startups filing patent/trade mark/design applications (or not), working as a European patent attorney:
I find that very few see themselves in an IP dispute, and they don't care unless they get dragged into one or they get very pissed off! It's rarely a motivation when starting their business, particularly as they're not competing with anyone yet.
For most startups I've worked for, IP registration has been a means to an end. Usually a potential/existing investor or advisor has told them to do it, or grant funding is available.
After that point, it may never be needed again, but if the business becomes successful they will probably end up using it.
Some startups actually decide to apply on their own initiative. Some were industry veterans with previous experience. Others had no prior experience, but it was so clear that their product is easy to copy that it rang alarm bells.
So, bringing it back to the OP's question, it may be important to decide on a few IP-related questions before following the advice of books to go out and test the market. General business books often give wrong IP advice.
Tuna said:
Go and talk to your nearest independent gym (under NDA) and find out if they'd be willing to put in an order for what you're proposing - pitch to them and see if they see what you see. Equally, ask them if they'd let you put out a questionnaire or talk to their clients.
A solid order or a robust promise would really help your business case.
Thanks Tuna. At the moment my timeline looks like this:A solid order or a robust promise would really help your business case.
Edited by Tuna on Tuesday 21st July 21:00
Develop prototype - prove concept - patent - raise funding - manufacture/product launch.
Am I thinking about this the wrong way? The way I see it is that the business does not really exist until we are at least at step 2, maybe 3? I have access to a few personal trainers and there are a few academic papers which demonstrate the benefits of this type of training, though there is no product which actively uses this method.
I have another product I'd also like to bring to market. It is much simpler and cheaper, but relatively niche (and completely unrelated to the other product) and will be marketed directly to my current industy. I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to run with this idea first, and use it as a learning exercise before going for the big one. Any reasons not to do that?
Tuna said:
Key things are - don't spend ages (and a fortune) building something before you go to the market to find out if you're right. Find your audience, test out ideas with them and be prepared to change tack when you get new information from them. Build as little as possible before you start testing out your market.
That’s the (relatively) easy bit!Taking things from proof of concept to scale is often MUCH harder, especially if you’re doing something innovative. I’d argue that some of the thinking around “lean startup” can really hold you back if the organisation doesn’t mature quickly and/or rejects planning and process as “bureaucracy”. Leave it too long and your technical debt can seriously inhibit your ability to develop. You also need to be realistic about how long tech will last at each stage and what the implications of this are for your development efforts and resourcing.
The UK sadly currently lags other parts of the world when it comes to support for startups/scale-ups. Partly cultural, partly legacy (not many people out there who have been there before). It’ll change over time, most likely as innovators spin-off from growing firms and either spawn more startups or add much needed advisory capacity to the ecosystem (which, I agree with Grrnbang, is critical).
On the IP topic: people often overlook the fact that solid execution of processes can trump the codified IP itself, to the extent that knowing the how can be more important than the what. I’d argue that few companies are going to win over the next 10 years by focusing on the traditional views around IP and traditional delivery models...
LooneyTunes said:
On the IP topic: people often overlook the fact that solid execution of processes can trump the codified IP itself, to the extent that knowing the how can be more important than the what. I’d argue that few companies are going to win over the next 10 years by focusing on the traditional views around IP and traditional delivery models...
So are you saying that if you do it right the first time, you don't need to worry about people (inevitably) copying? First to market and all that?Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff