Discussion
Oh yeah, let's not worry. I mean radiowaves are not used for anything other than good s
t like shopping on amazon or buying your new iphone or checking whether you have enough money in your current account to cover the minimum CC payment or to talk about nothing with everyone or... hang on my microwave has finished heating up my food...
And I'm back. If there are any concerns or health related obstacles to 5G we can just push the boundaries and force the regulators to increase 3x the "acceptable" limits. Like in Switzerland for example where 5G wasn't possible until the change in acceptable radiation limits that happened recently (finally, what a relief for all the telco executives out there), all in the name of being progressive and accepting towards new technology.
So stop being tin foil sensationalists and get a new credit card ready for purchase of your new 5G device, you will be able to spend more money at speeds that were never possible until now. Thank you and Jah bless you all.
t like shopping on amazon or buying your new iphone or checking whether you have enough money in your current account to cover the minimum CC payment or to talk about nothing with everyone or... hang on my microwave has finished heating up my food...And I'm back. If there are any concerns or health related obstacles to 5G we can just push the boundaries and force the regulators to increase 3x the "acceptable" limits. Like in Switzerland for example where 5G wasn't possible until the change in acceptable radiation limits that happened recently (finally, what a relief for all the telco executives out there), all in the name of being progressive and accepting towards new technology.
So stop being tin foil sensationalists and get a new credit card ready for purchase of your new 5G device, you will be able to spend more money at speeds that were never possible until now. Thank you and Jah bless you all.
And yet you’re happy to go outside in the sunshine which is also electromagnetic radiation, only it’s about 100,000 times higher frequency ( and thus much closer to the dangerous stuff), and about 800 times more powerful.
What’s so different about 5G compared to say 4G, 3G etc? There’s already loads of RF whizzing about the airwaves, it’s easy to observe with the right equipment.
What’s so different about 5G compared to say 4G, 3G etc? There’s already loads of RF whizzing about the airwaves, it’s easy to observe with the right equipment.
Super Slo Mo said:
What’s so different about 5G compared to say 4G, 3G etc? There’s already loads of RF whizzing about the airwaves, it’s easy to observe with the right equipment.
Why do you ask me? I thought you're the expert.Anyway, I really don't want to argue since I want the technology to progress even further, at all cost. I'm off to bed now, going to wrap myself in an asbestos blanket and going to have a cigarette just before I hit the sheets - I've found some leaflets from 1950's in my attic that talk about health benefits of smoking and some materials from the asbestos industry debunking the "It's causing cancer!!!!!!!" myths. Tomorrow I'm going to help my neighbour with his experiment - his converting his lawnmower to leaded petrol, apparently all that talk about lead being not good for your health is just a bunch of conspiracy nuts gobbledygook and his lawnmower is much more efficient (so better for the O-Zone layur) when it's got some lead in the system.
You are the one that’s worried about it. I was asking what it is that’s the problem.
None of your other analogies are relevant, they are all proven to be bad for your health.
RF has been around for what, 150 years. Mobile phones have been prolific for the last 20 at least, with enormous growth in the last decade.
My thoughts are that if there were any dangers, they would have surfaced by now, there has been lots of research done.
As ever, I’m happy to be proved wrong but you need facts, not just irrelevant nonsense.
None of your other analogies are relevant, they are all proven to be bad for your health.
RF has been around for what, 150 years. Mobile phones have been prolific for the last 20 at least, with enormous growth in the last decade.
My thoughts are that if there were any dangers, they would have surfaced by now, there has been lots of research done.
As ever, I’m happy to be proved wrong but you need facts, not just irrelevant nonsense.
Super Slo Mo said:
You are the one that’s worried about it. I was asking what it is that’s the problem.
None of your other analogies are relevant, they are all proven to be bad for your health.
RF has been around for what, 150 years. Mobile phones have been prolific for the last 20 at least, with enormous growth in the last decade.
My thoughts are that if there were any dangers, they would have surfaced by now, there has been lots of research done.
As ever, I’m happy to be proved wrong but you need facts, not just irrelevant nonsense.
No I thought that since you are in the know then you'd have facts proving the ones "that you are worried about" wrong and you'd be able to explain instead of asking. I mean I'm not an expert but even I know (because I was paying attention instead of masturbating under my desk at school) that different wave-lengths combined with different power outputs can do different things. Hence why things like microwave ovens exist. It's not that you can swipe them all under the "if there were any dangers, they would have surfaced by now" carpet because 5G wasn't available until now but the risks were known hence in Switzerland there were limits set to how powerful certain frequency ranges in electromagnetic spectrum can be. Now that 5G is the next big money making thing we simply are happy to 3x the limits to satisfy the commercial interest. None of your other analogies are relevant, they are all proven to be bad for your health.
RF has been around for what, 150 years. Mobile phones have been prolific for the last 20 at least, with enormous growth in the last decade.
My thoughts are that if there were any dangers, they would have surfaced by now, there has been lots of research done.
As ever, I’m happy to be proved wrong but you need facts, not just irrelevant nonsense.
And the reference to asbestos and smoking is very much valid since these things used to be considered ok back in the day and after a while they became bad (even though the "conspiracy nuts" were banging on about them being not that great back in the day). Things always surface after it's too late and they become too big to swipe under the carpet (and the fixing of the f
kups is a great opportunity to make even more money!)Not to mention that certain things can take decades to prove themselves bad in practice. That's when types like yourself then say, oh SORRY! WE THOUGHT IT WAS OK. PROMISE NOT TO DO IT AGAIN!
JustALooseScrew said:
So jurbie as you're in the industry, would you give a quick summary to the difference between 4 and 5 G - I'm ten years out of the game.
I'm not really involved with the technology but can concur with what SuperSloMo has said, it tally's with what I'm hearing. There will certainly be a requirement for more cells, lamp posts are being talked about for instance. Basically every other lamp post with a small cell inside. It's remarkable stuff really.As for the health risks of RF, I've spent much of my career climbing masts and working alongside live antennas. I'm one person out of many millions doing the same thing worldwide for well over 2 decades. If there was some kind of health hazard you'd think it would perhaps already be appearing within that demographic?
Edited by jurbie on Friday 7th December 20:01
jurbie said:
I'm not really involved with the technology but can concur with what SuperSloMo has said, it tally's with what I'm hearing. There will certainly be a requirement for more cells, lamp posts are being talked about for instance. Basically every other lamp post with a small cell inside. It's remarkable stuff really.
As for the health risks of RF, I've spent much of my career climbing masts and working alongside live antennas. I'm one person out of many millions doing the same thing worldwide for well over 2 decades. If there was some kind of health hazard you'd think it would perhaps already be appearing within that demographic?
You (and millions of people like you apparently!) have been working with 5G spectrum most of your professional life? Where did you park your Delorean, Doc?As for the health risks of RF, I've spent much of my career climbing masts and working alongside live antennas. I'm one person out of many millions doing the same thing worldwide for well over 2 decades. If there was some kind of health hazard you'd think it would perhaps already be appearing within that demographic?
jurbie said:
My mistake, I thought you had a concern about the possible dangers of RF.
Well this thread is about 5G so this is the main subject here. You might be confused since the argument pro 5G is that until now nothing has happened hence through the magic of interpolation (obviously, right?) when 5G goes live it will be as safe as everything else.Anyway I don't know why but I'm trying to defrost my supper by keeping it next to my WiFi router, I thought that all RF behaves the same hence it's obvious that it would behave like a microwave? I must be missing something, anyone know a good book on the basics of electromagnetic spectrum?
Ok, so 5G is different to RF. Gotcha.
As for your supper well that's a question of wattage. Your microwave will be maybe 800 watts so if your router is putting out the same then yes it should adequately defrost your food.
Percy Spencer is the chap to speak to about that though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Spencer
But of course we're going off track here because RF has nothing at all to do with 5G which is entirely different and has no relation to anything gone before in the world of microwave transmission.
As for your supper well that's a question of wattage. Your microwave will be maybe 800 watts so if your router is putting out the same then yes it should adequately defrost your food.
Percy Spencer is the chap to speak to about that though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Spencer
Wikipedia said:
One day while building magnetrons, Spencer was standing in front of an active radar set when he noticed the candy bar he had in his pocket had melted. Spencer was not the first to notice this phenomenon, but he was the first to investigate it. He decided to experiment using food, including popcorn kernels, which became the world’s first microwaved popcorn. In another experiment, an egg was placed in a tea kettle, and the magnetron was placed directly above it. The result was the egg exploding in the face of one of his co-workers, who was looking in the kettle to observe. Spencer then created the first true microwave oven by attaching a high density electromagnetic field generator to an enclosed metal box. The magnetron emitted microwaves into the metal box blocking any escape, allowing for controlled and safe experimentation. He then placed various food items in the box, while observing effects and monitoring temperatures.
Judging by that I'd suggest he was getting a massive dose of RF through his working career but still managed to struggle on to the age of 76, not bad for someone born in 1894.But of course we're going off track here because RF has nothing at all to do with 5G which is entirely different and has no relation to anything gone before in the world of microwave transmission.
jurbie said:
Judging by that I'd suggest he was getting a massive dose of RF through his working career but still managed to struggle on to the age of 76, not bad for someone born in 1894.
But of course we're going off track here because RF has nothing at all to do with 5G which is entirely different and has no relation to anything gone before in the world of microwave transmission.
Ah the power of anecdotal evidence, it never gets old. I bet you've never heard of people who smoked 40 cigs a day all their life and died in their 90's from non-smoking related complications? That surely means that smoking is not bad for you (if it was bad smokers would all be dying much sooner).But of course we're going off track here because RF has nothing at all to do with 5G which is entirely different and has no relation to anything gone before in the world of microwave transmission.
Thing is, the only new stuff in 5G, frequency wise is the proposed mmWave (24GHz and above). All the other frequencies (UHF, 3GHz, 6GHz) have been in use for decades, they are just being re-utilised for 5G purposes now. At this stage mmWave is a proposal, I don't know how much testing has been done with it, personally I am not too convinced that it will work very well as it's going to be very line of sight dependent. Maybe as a low powered indoor system it will be ok, but I guess we shall see.
5G is more of a description of how the system works and will be integrated, than anything specific to RF, as essentially the radio technology itself isn't changing much. That said, modulation and encoding are not where areas of possible concern are anyway.
In the grand scheme of things, the difference between the single figure GHz part of the EM spectrum and the 24-30 GHz part are tiny, compared with the difference between it and, for instance, infra red, visible light and gamma rays. Of those, we know the top end of the visible light spectrum can be dangerous (UV), and of course gamma rays are. Visible light isn't, particularly, neither is infra red, although both can deliver a burn if you are too close to a powerful emitter.
Incidentally, I did a little googling when I had a spare few minutes regarding the Swiss '5G' limits that the OP alluded to. I couldn't find anything, so a definitive link to that would be nice.
5G is more of a description of how the system works and will be integrated, than anything specific to RF, as essentially the radio technology itself isn't changing much. That said, modulation and encoding are not where areas of possible concern are anyway.
In the grand scheme of things, the difference between the single figure GHz part of the EM spectrum and the 24-30 GHz part are tiny, compared with the difference between it and, for instance, infra red, visible light and gamma rays. Of those, we know the top end of the visible light spectrum can be dangerous (UV), and of course gamma rays are. Visible light isn't, particularly, neither is infra red, although both can deliver a burn if you are too close to a powerful emitter.
Incidentally, I did a little googling when I had a spare few minutes regarding the Swiss '5G' limits that the OP alluded to. I couldn't find anything, so a definitive link to that would be nice.
Flat earthers 
That fact that if you go to the top of a bloody big hill you can see the earth curvature.
Anyway back on topic of the internet snoopery.
I was learning many years ago about IPV4 many years ago and it was mentioned we are running out of IP addresses, hence why we have sub nets etc.
IPV6 was the new upcoming technology and it was mentioned, When fully accepted every single person in the world would have an IPV6 address assigned to them at birth. A bit like a NI number. Now all devices would be linked to the person as an individual. MAC addresses can be thrown away. An Assigned IPV6 address could not.
That fact that if you go to the top of a bloody big hill you can see the earth curvature.
Anyway back on topic of the internet snoopery.
I was learning many years ago about IPV4 many years ago and it was mentioned we are running out of IP addresses, hence why we have sub nets etc.
IPV6 was the new upcoming technology and it was mentioned, When fully accepted every single person in the world would have an IPV6 address assigned to them at birth. A bit like a NI number. Now all devices would be linked to the person as an individual. MAC addresses can be thrown away. An Assigned IPV6 address could not.
Super Slo Mo said:
Incidentally, I did a little googling when I had a spare few minutes regarding the Swiss '5G' limits that the OP alluded to. I couldn't find anything, so a definitive link to that would be nice.
Looks like you weren't trying hard enough... https://www.24heures.ch/suisse/5g-risque-arriver-r...Of course most frequencies had been used at some point. But not at this scale.
Chuffedmonkey said:
Flat earthers
That fact that if you go to the top of a bloody big hill you can see the earth curvature.
Anyway back on topic of the internet snoopery.
I was learning many years ago about IPV4 many years ago and it was mentioned we are running out of IP addresses, hence why we have sub nets etc.
IPV6 was the new upcoming technology and it was mentioned, When fully accepted every single person in the world would have an IPV6 address assigned to them at birth. A bit like a NI number. Now all devices would be linked to the person as an individual. MAC addresses can be thrown away. An Assigned IPV6 address could not.
And the chip, don't forget that we already can get ourselves chipped. What a great fThat fact that if you go to the top of a bloody big hill you can see the earth curvature.
Anyway back on topic of the internet snoopery.
I was learning many years ago about IPV4 many years ago and it was mentioned we are running out of IP addresses, hence why we have sub nets etc.
IPV6 was the new upcoming technology and it was mentioned, When fully accepted every single person in the world would have an IPV6 address assigned to them at birth. A bit like a NI number. Now all devices would be linked to the person as an individual. MAC addresses can be thrown away. An Assigned IPV6 address could not.
king time to be alive man!Chuffedmonkey said:
Bullitt Five-Oh said:
And the chip, don't forget that we already can get ourselves chipped. What a great fking time to be alive man!
Why have a chip when IPV6 could be registered to an individual. Some cant go 5 mins without using the internet. king time to be alive man!Bullitt Five-Oh said:
Super Slo Mo said:
Incidentally, I did a little googling when I had a spare few minutes regarding the Swiss '5G' limits that the OP alluded to. I couldn't find anything, so a definitive link to that would be nice.
Looks like you weren't trying hard enough... https://www.24heures.ch/suisse/5g-risque-arriver-r...Of course most frequencies had been used at some point. But not at this scale.
I would prefer to read something that’s not written by a journalist if such a thing exists?
Super Slo Mo said:
Bullitt Five-Oh said:
Super Slo Mo said:
Incidentally, I did a little googling when I had a spare few minutes regarding the Swiss '5G' limits that the OP alluded to. I couldn't find anything, so a definitive link to that would be nice.
Looks like you weren't trying hard enough... https://www.24heures.ch/suisse/5g-risque-arriver-r...Of course most frequencies had been used at some point. But not at this scale.
I would prefer to read something that’s not written by a journalist if such a thing exists?
EDIT: not sure what paywall you're talking about also, I see the whole thing.
Edited by Bullitt Five-Oh on Monday 10th December 20:08
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