BT Superfast Fibre 2 (70mb) to Ultrafast Fibre Plus (150mb)

[Henners]

This looks interesting for me too... currently having st Sky broadband which gets in the way of video calls for business.

When they say ‘unlimited usage’ Do you know if thats truly unlimited or if there’s any throttling involved?

Sorry for the hijack.

[jimhcat]

If you have a BT home hub installed then it is very difficult to turn off the wireless completely.
You can turn the wifi off in the settings but it keeps the BT wifi running regardless.
You can call BT support and get them to turn it off but I found it then occasionally comes back on after firmware updates etc.
You also have to opt out of their free wifi service to get them to turn it off
In the end I got rid of the BTHH and went with a Draytek Vigor router which has been much better.

[Brainpox]

Calza said:

If you're happy with what you have now, why not ask them to match the price they are advertising for the 74Mb package:

When I cancelled my contract with BT a month ago they contacted me a week later and offered the superfast 2 package for £27.99/month if I signed up for a new 18 month contract. I turned it down but the offers are there!

[Deep Thought]

jimhcat said:

If you have a BT home hub installed then it is very difficult to turn off the wireless completely.
You can turn the wifi off in the settings but it keeps the BT wifi running regardless.
You can call BT support and get them to turn it off but I found it then occasionally comes back on after firmware updates etc.
You also have to opt out of their free wifi service to get them to turn it off
In the end I got rid of the BTHH and went with a Draytek Vigor router which has been much better.

Thats worth knowing. Thank you. I will check that out.

[roadsmash]

DT

I have this exact package from BT and just want to advise you of a few things which you may or may not be aware of.

- Whatever speed you’re promised (it will be between 100-150mbps IIRC (mine is about 130mbps)); this ‘promise’ is only based on the speed measured at your HomeHub. So if you receive speeds of lower than this, BT Support just log in to your HomeHub and check the speed it’s receiving, and if it’s getting 100mbps+ from the outside world, they consider the matter resolved.

- Wi-fi speeds aren’t guaranteed at all and they won’t entertain any support on that. See below for more information I bled from an engineer over the phone.

- Only 5Ghz wi-fi supported devices will receive 3 figure speeds over wireless. 2.5Ghz devices will max out at about 50-70mbps.

- My biggest gripe was this; ANY device on the network that’s only capable of 2.5Ghz will throttle the WHOLE network down to 2.5Ghz. So you won’t get anywhere near 3 figure speeds on ANY device, regardless of how close you stand to the HomeHub. To give you an idea, a lot of smart plugs, smart bulbs, older smart TV’s, older laptops/PC’s, PlayStation 4’s (not Pro), certain Xbox’s, smart thermostats etc all run on 2.5Ghz so if you have any of these constantly connected to wi-fi you will need to upgrade them all to 5Ghz supported alternatives to stop bottlenecking.

- You can configure your HomeHub to separate out both networks ie broadcast BTHub6-XXX and a separate BTHub6-XXX-5. The idea being that you can connect all 2.5Ghz devices to the normal network and 5Ghz devices to the -5 network. However, the downside of this is that the devices don’t see each other and won’t talk to each other, making a smart home (that relies on being on the same network) and/or file sharing not possible.

- A bit of positivity though; devices connected via Ethernet don’t get this problem and you should receive 3 figure speeds on all of these.

- Internally at BT, this package is called G-Fast and genuinely, as of a few months ago, only a handful of sales staff could actually process the orders for it correctly, I had to have my order reprocessed 3 times before an engineer finally was booked to attend my property (they have to install the brand new G-Fast socket) and get it all set up correctly. In their defence, I took this package out immediately, as soon as it came out, so these teething issues may be resolved now. To reiterate, if the engineer isn’t booked to attend your property, your service won’t activate properly.

I hope this helps.

[NDA]

If it's the same money - why not.

I've recently moved to a new property that has FTTP with 350Mbps download available.... but I've gone with a 35Mbps package at £29.99 - which seems plenty fast enough. I can't imagine what I'd need 350 for. I guess if I had a house full of teenagers maybe...

[Deep Thought]

roadsmash said:

DT

I have this exact package from BT and just want to advise you of a few things which you may or may not be aware of.

- Whatever speed you’re promised (it will be between 100-150mbps IIRC (mine is about 130mbps)); this ‘promise’ is only based on the speed measured at your HomeHub. So if you receive speeds of lower than this, BT Support just log in to your HomeHub and check the speed it’s receiving, and if it’s getting 100mbps+ from the outside world, they consider the matter resolved.

Yes thats something i'm concious of. So whatever comes in to the house is what they quote on. Currently 65-70mb.

roadsmash said:

- Wi-fi speeds aren’t guaranteed at all and they won’t entertain any support on that. See below for more information I bled from an engineer over the phone.

Yes. Though my thinking is, if we're losing 60% of our speed at the moment, from 70Mb to 30Mb then if we've 150Mb, we should at least get more than the 30Mb but maybe as high as 70Mb?

roadsmash said:

- Only 5Ghz wi-fi supported devices will receive 3 figure speeds over wireless. 2.5Ghz devices will max out at about 50-70mbps.

Interesting. Though we're only hitting 30Mb in the lounge area, so still scope for improvement with both.

roadsmash said:

- My biggest gripe was this; ANY device on the network that’s only capable of 2.5Ghz will throttle the WHOLE network down to 2.5Ghz. So you won’t get anywhere near 3 figure speeds on ANY device, regardless of how close you stand to the HomeHub. To give you an idea, a lot of smart plugs, smart bulbs, older smart TV’s, older laptops/PC’s, PlayStation 4’s (not Pro), certain Xbox’s, smart thermostats etc all run on 2.5Ghz so if you have any of these constantly connected to wi-fi you will need to upgrade them all to 5Ghz supported alternatives to stop bottlenecking.

- You can configure your HomeHub to separate out both networks ie broadcast BTHub6-XXX and a separate BTHub6-XXX-5. The idea being that you can connect all 2.5Ghz devices to the normal network and 5Ghz devices to the -5 network. However, the downside of this is that the devices don’t see each other and won’t talk to each other, making a smart home (that relies on being on the same network) and/or file sharing not possible.

- A bit of positivity though; devices connected via Ethernet don’t get this problem and you should receive 3 figure speeds on all of these.

- Internally at BT, this package is called G-Fast and genuinely, as of a few months ago, only a handful of sales staff could actually process the orders for it correctly, I had to have my order reprocessed 3 times before an engineer finally was booked to attend my property (they have to install the brand new G-Fast socket) and get it all set up correctly. In their defence, I took this package out immediately, as soon as it came out, so these teething issues may be resolved now. To reiterate, if the engineer isn’t booked to attend your property, your service won’t activate properly.

I hope this helps.

Thats very interesting reading. When i try to step through the process online, it does talk of needing to book an engineers appointment.

Thank you for all that

[Deep Thought]

NDA said:

If it's the same money - why not.

I've recently moved to a new property that has FTTP with 350Mbps download available.... but I've gone with a 35Mbps package at £29.99 - which seems plenty fast enough. I can't imagine what I'd need 350 for. I guess if I had a house full of teenagers maybe...

Thats ultimately the dilemma at the moment. Up to the start of last year we were getting 1.8Mb until they upgraded the cabinet beside us to fibre. But even then we've still been plagued with Wifi connectivity issues, until we upgraded to the Uniquiti solution where now we are getting at very worst a very stable 30Mb connection, compared to maybe 1 or 2 drop outs a day with home plugs and the odd one with the TENDA system.

So we now have a very stable setup with 30Mbs at the extremes and 50Mb in the study, etc.

My wife is of the opinion - now that we have a stable system that works and provides us will all the bandwidth we really need, why mess with it?

[phil-sti]

Integroo said:

I doubt you need 150 Mbps. I pay £26pcm for '70' Mbps (guaranteed at 55Mbps). You could find a cheaper 70 Mbps provider?

He probably doesn’t need it but it would be good.

[JonChalk]

jimhcat said:

If you have a BT home hub installed then it is very difficult to turn off the wireless completely.
You can turn the wifi off in the settings but it keeps the BT wifi running regardless.

That can be turned off too, within the hub manager settings, not even in Advanced Settings.

[Sheepshanks]

roadsmash said:

- My biggest gripe was this; ANY device on the network that’s only capable of 2.5Ghz will throttle the WHOLE network down to 2.5Ghz. So you won’t get anywhere near 3 figure speeds on ANY device, regardless of how close you stand to the HomeHub. To give you an idea, a lot of smart plugs, smart bulbs, older smart TV’s, older laptops/PC’s, PlayStation 4’s (not Pro), certain Xbox’s, smart thermostats etc all run on 2.5Ghz so if you have any of these constantly connected to wi-fi you will need to upgrade them all to 5Ghz supported alternatives to stop bottlenecking.

I'm not saying that isn't happening but I'm sure it's not supposed to - the Hub should run both networks concurrently at their fastest speed.

Which hub have you got? You make reference to HH6 - I've lost track a bit but if you're on G-Fast I think you should have Smart Hub X which is sometimes referred to as HH7. To confuse things further, I think the very latest one is called SmartHub2.

Having said all that, on our HH5, I've disabled 5Ghz and only use the 2.4GHz band. I found things were trying to stay connected to 5Ghz and then not working when out of (the very limited) range. It works fine with multiple users in the house and I can stream 4K over wifi to my new TV without any stuttering at all.

Be aware that some things will absolutely swamp the available wifi bandwidth - wifi cameras in particular, are notorious for this.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Sunday 19th May 14:00

[NDA]

Deep Thought said:

My wife is of the opinion - now that we have a stable system that works and provides us will all the bandwidth we really need, why mess with it?

Why not wait 6 months or so?

I live my life on broadband pretty much - films, music... everything. 35Mbps is more than enough for me and the fibre seems much more stable than my previous copper connection.

[jimhcat]

JonChalk said:

That can be turned off too, within the hub manager settings, not even in Advanced Settings.

I suggest you try and then use a wifi signal monitor to see what you actually have running.
Yes, it's easy to turn off your BT wifi in the HH settings but this does not turn off the BT-FON or BT-Internet wifi that will remain running as a separate channel.
This is the BT wifi that other BT customers can utilise when they are near your house and use your bandwidth.

This is another good reason to ditch the BT HH and get your own so you have complete control. BT don't really want you doing this and will say that they can't support your router but if you get a fault it is easy to just swop the HH back in again temporarily.

[jimhcat]

roadsmash said:

DT


- You can configure your HomeHub to separate out both networks ie broadcast BTHub6-XXX and a separate BTHub6-XXX-5. The idea being that you can connect all 2.5Ghz devices to the normal network and 5Ghz devices to the -5 network. However, the downside of this is that the devices don’t see each other and won’t talk to each other, making a smart home (that relies on being on the same network) and/or file sharing not possible.

Er, I don't think this is correct, certainly not in my experience.
Having wifi devices connected on different channels is not a problem and they should all be on the same network as they are through the same router.

[jimhcat]

Deep Thought said:

Cheers, yes, that was the intimation i was reading on their site. We've had real problems getting wifi across the house and now have a Ubiquiti system which seems to have the problem cracked.

My wife in particular is wary that if we upgrade, they'll put some new technology in that will stop the Ubiquity working. I cant see it as it just is connected to the router by a network cable.

The only thing we need to do is turn WiFi off on the new router and i assume that can be done anyway.

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 17th May 13:21

If you have a Ubiquity system with wifi access points then this should not really be affected by changing the router. I assume that you have a POE switch supplying the Ubiquity AP's, which is then connected to your existing router by an Ethernet cable.
As long as you turn off the wifi on your new router then it should all work just the same.
Just bear in mind that with a BT HH there will still be wifi running even when you turn it off in the HH settings.
Use an app on your phone like WiFi Analyser to see what is running and you will see the BT WiFi Hotspot will be there as a separate channel

[Sheepshanks]

jimhcat said:

Yes, it's easy to turn off your BT wifi in the HH settings but this does not turn off the BT-FON or BT-Internet wifi that will remain running as a separate channel.
This is the BT wifi that other BT customers can utilise when they are near your house and use your bandwidth.

You seem to have a thing about this - is it really an issue?

I haven't tried to connect using FON for years but recall it being a right faff and the speed was terrible.

[JonChalk]

jimhcat said:

I suggest you try and then use a wifi signal monitor to see what you actually have running.
Yes, it's easy to turn off your BT wifi in the HH settings but this does not turn off the BT-FON or BT-Internet wifi that will remain running as a separate channel.
This is the BT wifi that other BT customers can utilise when they are near your house and use your bandwidth.

This is another good reason to ditch the BT HH and get your own so you have complete control. BT don't really want you doing this and will say that they can't support your router but if you get a fault it is easy to just swop the HH back in again temporarily.

Have a wifi scanner (2 actually - 1 on mac, 1 on phone) & it's definitely off. No BT-Fon, no BT WiFi. Not there. Off. Unavailable. Gone.

[Jakg]

Deep Thought said:

Yes. Though my thinking is, if we're losing 60% of our speed at the moment, from 70Mb to 30Mb then if we've 150Mb, we should at least get more than the 30Mb but maybe as high as 70Mb?

It doesn't work like that - it sounds like your saying 30mbit is the limit of the link between your device and the WiFi access point. Increasing the connection at the access point end won't improve that.

Imagine you've got a Ford Fiesta that can do 105MPH - but the speed limit is 70. Your suggesting buying a Ferrari that can do 180MPH so that you can now do 120MPH on the motorway - it just isn't going to work.

[Deep Thought]

Jakg said:

Deep Thought said:

Yes. Though my thinking is, if we're losing 60% of our speed at the moment, from 70Mb to 30Mb then if we've 150Mb, we should at least get more than the 30Mb but maybe as high as 70Mb?

It doesn't work like that - it sounds like your saying 30mbit is the limit of the link between your device and the WiFi access point. Increasing the connection at the access point end won't improve that.

Imagine you've got a Ford Fiesta that can do 105MPH - but the speed limit is 70. Your suggesting buying a Ferrari that can do 180MPH so that you can now do 120MPH on the motorway - it just isn't going to work.

If thats how it is then no it wouldnt be worthwhile. My thinking was we were losing a percentage bandwidth not that it was a link constraint.

[nmd87]

My understanding is that 5GHZ can be faster than 2.4 but it peters out more as you get further away. Inversely 2.4 has better range but may be slower than 5 at shorter distances. Which is quicker depends on how far you are from the router and what obstacles are in the way. As has been said, some devices can use both bands whilst other cheaper/older devices can only use 2.4.

You can choose to have a single SSID covering both bands, or if you are having trouble with devices switching between bands, you can have two separate SSIDs - one for each band - as I think has been said. This will ensure said device stays on whatever band the SSID in question is set to. On BT this can be done via the Hub manager (gateway 192.168.1.254). With this method you can then test speed and reliablity on either band and decide which to use, per device. The downside is that with devices that don't stay in one place, you don't have the advantage of it using the best band according to whichever that is in a given part of the house.