Nvidia 3000 Series Tonight
Discussion
Mr Whippy said:
Supply and demand sent them up.
Supply and demand will bring them down.
Back in the late 90s and early 00s it was always some earthquake in Asia that saw RAM prices go up, but they came down again.
HDD, SSD, GPU, CPU, blah blah blah… computers depreciate like bricks. Always have.
But suddenly GPUs are a new case, and human behaviour has forever changed when buying a GPU?
Mmmkaay.
No, it's possible that conditions will have changed by the time the next generation comes out in Q3 but there's no reason to believe that the next gen will just be cheaper than the current gen as long as conditions prevail.Supply and demand will bring them down.
Back in the late 90s and early 00s it was always some earthquake in Asia that saw RAM prices go up, but they came down again.
HDD, SSD, GPU, CPU, blah blah blah… computers depreciate like bricks. Always have.
But suddenly GPUs are a new case, and human behaviour has forever changed when buying a GPU?
Mmmkaay.
There's also a huge backlog building of people who would have upgraded to the current gen, but couldn't.
To top that all, inflation is roaring so expecting prices in line with the RRP of current gen (which excepting a very limited trickle of FE cards you can't buy them at) isn't realistic either. Look at the way NVidia priced the 3080Ti massively higher than the 3080 and then dropped RRP entirely for the 3080 12GB.
And yes, consumer price expectations are not what they once were. Many people being now willing to pay a lot more than they used to for GPU so there is a factor there to be exploited too. When 3 or 4 year old cards are selling secondhand for what they were when new (or higher) you know that things have changed somewhat with buyers.
But then how many 3000 series cards will be on the market from miners and other builders upgrading to 4000 that will be totally useable with AAA games for a few years yet. It's only a move to 4k that needs more power and that's currently a low 2.3% of gamers on Steam.
RTX 3080 = RTX 4060 Ti
RTX 3070 = RTX 4060
RTX 3060 = RTX 4050
RTX 3080 = RTX 4060 Ti
RTX 3070 = RTX 4060
RTX 3060 = RTX 4050
Lucas Ayde said:
Mr Whippy said:
Supply and demand sent them up.
Supply and demand will bring them down.
Back in the late 90s and early 00s it was always some earthquake in Asia that saw RAM prices go up, but they came down again.
HDD, SSD, GPU, CPU, blah blah blah… computers depreciate like bricks. Always have.
But suddenly GPUs are a new case, and human behaviour has forever changed when buying a GPU?
Mmmkaay.
No, it's possible that conditions will have changed by the time the next generation comes out in Q3 but there's no reason to believe that the next gen will just be cheaper than the current gen as long as conditions prevail.Supply and demand will bring them down.
Back in the late 90s and early 00s it was always some earthquake in Asia that saw RAM prices go up, but they came down again.
HDD, SSD, GPU, CPU, blah blah blah… computers depreciate like bricks. Always have.
But suddenly GPUs are a new case, and human behaviour has forever changed when buying a GPU?
Mmmkaay.
There's also a huge backlog building of people who would have upgraded to the current gen, but couldn't.
To top that all, inflation is roaring so expecting prices in line with the RRP of current gen (which excepting a very limited trickle of FE cards you can't buy them at) isn't realistic either. Look at the way NVidia priced the 3080Ti massively higher than the 3080 and then dropped RRP entirely for the 3080 12GB.
And yes, consumer price expectations are not what they once were. Many people being now willing to pay a lot more than they used to for GPU so there is a factor there to be exploited too. When 3 or 4 year old cards are selling secondhand for what they were when new (or higher) you know that things have changed somewhat with buyers.
Unless all manufacturers all agree to limit supply to keep prices high, they’ll compete down.
That’s why opec exists for oil, and de beers for diamonds.
ALL electronic consumer goods ever have become cheaper and more ubiquitous with time.
Computer chips are everywhere now.
You’re suggesting now that price reductions will invert just because manufacturers can charge more and people will gleefully pay more, and the manufacturers will all agree to not compete?
This is a supply shock combined with a demand side shock, fuelled with free money, and the results are what we see… across everything.
This will create a recession and prices go south hard and fast as nvidia, amd, Intel etc, all cut prices to get people even buying product at all.
Mr Whippy said:
That’s not how supply and demand works.
Unless all manufacturers all agree to limit supply to keep prices high, they’ll compete down.
That’s why opec exists for oil, and de beers for diamonds.
ALL electronic consumer goods ever have become cheaper and more ubiquitous with time.
Computer chips are everywhere now.
You’re suggesting now that price reductions will invert just because manufacturers can charge more and people will gleefully pay more, and the manufacturers will all agree to not compete?
This is a supply shock combined with a demand side shock, fuelled with free money, and the results are what we see… across everything.
This will create a recession and prices go south hard and fast as nvidia, amd, Intel etc, all cut prices to get people even buying product at all.
The issue being discussed was whether nor not the next gen cards are going to be cheaper and easier to get than the current.Unless all manufacturers all agree to limit supply to keep prices high, they’ll compete down.
That’s why opec exists for oil, and de beers for diamonds.
ALL electronic consumer goods ever have become cheaper and more ubiquitous with time.
Computer chips are everywhere now.
You’re suggesting now that price reductions will invert just because manufacturers can charge more and people will gleefully pay more, and the manufacturers will all agree to not compete?
This is a supply shock combined with a demand side shock, fuelled with free money, and the results are what we see… across everything.
This will create a recession and prices go south hard and fast as nvidia, amd, Intel etc, all cut prices to get people even buying product at all.
As I said, as long as curent conditions prevail, the situation is going to be exactly the same if not worse. In fact, almost certainly worse.
Of course, if the economy tanks or demand shrinks for other reasons (crypto mining for example) that can affect prices. But that applies just as much to the current gen.
Lucas Ayde said:
Mr Whippy said:
That’s not how supply and demand works.
Unless all manufacturers all agree to limit supply to keep prices high, they’ll compete down.
That’s why opec exists for oil, and de beers for diamonds.
ALL electronic consumer goods ever have become cheaper and more ubiquitous with time.
Computer chips are everywhere now.
You’re suggesting now that price reductions will invert just because manufacturers can charge more and people will gleefully pay more, and the manufacturers will all agree to not compete?
This is a supply shock combined with a demand side shock, fuelled with free money, and the results are what we see… across everything.
This will create a recession and prices go south hard and fast as nvidia, amd, Intel etc, all cut prices to get people even buying product at all.
The issue being discussed was whether nor not the next gen cards are going to be cheaper and easier to get than the current.Unless all manufacturers all agree to limit supply to keep prices high, they’ll compete down.
That’s why opec exists for oil, and de beers for diamonds.
ALL electronic consumer goods ever have become cheaper and more ubiquitous with time.
Computer chips are everywhere now.
You’re suggesting now that price reductions will invert just because manufacturers can charge more and people will gleefully pay more, and the manufacturers will all agree to not compete?
This is a supply shock combined with a demand side shock, fuelled with free money, and the results are what we see… across everything.
This will create a recession and prices go south hard and fast as nvidia, amd, Intel etc, all cut prices to get people even buying product at all.
As I said, as long as curent conditions prevail, the situation is going to be exactly the same if not worse. In fact, almost certainly worse.
Of course, if the economy tanks or demand shrinks for other reasons (crypto mining for example) that can affect prices. But that applies just as much to the current gen.
They can either sell very low volume at very high prices. Or high volume at lower prices.
But generally, as noted earlier, with every generation of consumer electronics, they sell more, in higher volumes, at lower cost 'for what you get' than the previous one.
What model of production/economies means low volume high price is the way to go?
AMD and Intel will just take all their business.
I need a new GPU. It's either Nvidia or AMD or Intel. I'll buy on bang/£.
Who wins my business will get revenue. The winner will be the best priced.
I genuinely don't get your argument. Nvidia don't have a monopoly. Infact they're about to be joined by Intel. And AMD APU are taking bigger and bigger generational leaps making discrete graphics increasingly un-needed for many.
On crypto, I've no idea really. Proof of stake will crash the ETH GPU mining alone, irrespective of the broader market.
I see first gen RTX 2080 etc being about £300 in 12 months time, unless something really bizzare happens.
An RTX 3080 Suprim X sold for £865 on Ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384755503752
MSI's top of the range card that's often for sale at retailers for ages and less than their budget Ventus model (Scan?!?!?!) The only reason I can see the Suprim doesn't sell well is it's the longest card at 336mm so perhaps limiting cases, but you'd easily buy a new case that fits if you got one.
MSI's top of the range card that's often for sale at retailers for ages and less than their budget Ventus model (Scan?!?!?!) The only reason I can see the Suprim doesn't sell well is it's the longest card at 336mm so perhaps limiting cases, but you'd easily buy a new case that fits if you got one.
FourWheelDrift said:
An RTX 3080 Suprim X sold for £865 on Ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384755503752
MSI's top of the range card that's often for sale at retailers for ages and less than their budget Ventus model (Scan?!?!?!) The only reason I can see the Suprim doesn't sell well is it's the longest card at 336mm so perhaps limiting cases, but you'd easily buy a new case that fits if you got one.
In your experience is that considerably cheaper than other second hand LHR 3080?MSI's top of the range card that's often for sale at retailers for ages and less than their budget Ventus model (Scan?!?!?!) The only reason I can see the Suprim doesn't sell well is it's the longest card at 336mm so perhaps limiting cases, but you'd easily buy a new case that fits if you got one.
Steven_RW said:
FourWheelDrift said:
An RTX 3080 Suprim X sold for £865 on Ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384755503752
MSI's top of the range card that's often for sale at retailers for ages and less than their budget Ventus model (Scan?!?!?!) The only reason I can see the Suprim doesn't sell well is it's the longest card at 336mm so perhaps limiting cases, but you'd easily buy a new case that fits if you got one.
In your experience is that considerably cheaper than other second hand LHR 3080?MSI's top of the range card that's often for sale at retailers for ages and less than their budget Ventus model (Scan?!?!?!) The only reason I can see the Suprim doesn't sell well is it's the longest card at 336mm so perhaps limiting cases, but you'd easily buy a new case that fits if you got one.
Search on Ebay for RTX 3080 and select advanced top right and then tick the sold listings box and see, most of them are still above £1000.
I see Scan, eBuyer and CCL etc have had a decent selection of GPUs at increasingly not daft prices in recent weeks.
Of course things are still silly... a friend picked up a 3080 FE from Scan for £649 the other year, so I'm using that as a benchmark on prices before I pay for anything. I sold my Asus GTX 760 for about £85 in Autumn last year which was crazy, and I see used prices are starting to soften faster than retail prices.
From what I gather lots of people are in Etherium to go proof of stake. If they do, which is very ESG and pro-crypto however you look at it, then GPU mining will die rapidly.
Bitcoin is already on ASIC, so huge drops in demand there.
Intel, AMD and Nvidia all releasing new GPUs.
The market is saturating with GPU too, just how many people really need new GPUs in the classes we're seeing? All those miner cards and new supply coming back on-line. And lower demand probably as household disposable takes a big bashing.
There are so many factors now, but I think momentum is shifting and it's going to really flip at some point.
Of course things are still silly... a friend picked up a 3080 FE from Scan for £649 the other year, so I'm using that as a benchmark on prices before I pay for anything. I sold my Asus GTX 760 for about £85 in Autumn last year which was crazy, and I see used prices are starting to soften faster than retail prices.
From what I gather lots of people are in Etherium to go proof of stake. If they do, which is very ESG and pro-crypto however you look at it, then GPU mining will die rapidly.
Bitcoin is already on ASIC, so huge drops in demand there.
Intel, AMD and Nvidia all releasing new GPUs.
The market is saturating with GPU too, just how many people really need new GPUs in the classes we're seeing? All those miner cards and new supply coming back on-line. And lower demand probably as household disposable takes a big bashing.
There are so many factors now, but I think momentum is shifting and it's going to really flip at some point.
Mr Whippy said:
Do FE cards come up any more? Any way to set alerts anywhere for these types of cards?
Thinking 3060Ti/3070/3070Ti bracket.
I really want the exhaust and blow-through type due to case design for my lounge htpc/gaming system (Sliger CL530)
Still regular, March 10th was the last lot.Thinking 3060Ti/3070/3070Ti bracket.
I really want the exhaust and blow-through type due to case design for my lounge htpc/gaming system (Sliger CL530)
Uhhh Telegram.
So how do you make it send you updates?
I’ve searched for FE PartAlert but I can’t find that user.
My user is “Mr Cocknose” if it needs an invite.
God I hate all these modern social things
The way they work is just beyond me. Is it basically just a WhatsApp/Signal/Snapchat clone?
Edit:
Ah jeez this uses my phone number, so every t
t with my phone number who is on Telegram can see me?
There I was hoping I could exist as the anonymous Mr Cocknose just to get Nvidia FE stock updates
I think I’m going to set up a scraper to look for updates under certain search terms on Scan every 5 minutes.
I’d already started yesterday but I had no idea how Scan’s system works with regards flagging an FE card.
Ie, brand flag is just a search term as “Nvidia” manufacturer just brought up all cards
Probably just listed as “Founders Edition”?
So how do you make it send you updates?
I’ve searched for FE PartAlert but I can’t find that user.
My user is “Mr Cocknose” if it needs an invite.
God I hate all these modern social things
The way they work is just beyond me. Is it basically just a WhatsApp/Signal/Snapchat clone?
Edit:
Ah jeez this uses my phone number, so every t
t with my phone number who is on Telegram can see me?There I was hoping I could exist as the anonymous Mr Cocknose just to get Nvidia FE stock updates
I think I’m going to set up a scraper to look for updates under certain search terms on Scan every 5 minutes.
I’d already started yesterday but I had no idea how Scan’s system works with regards flagging an FE card.
Ie, brand flag is just a search term as “Nvidia” manufacturer just brought up all cards
Probably just listed as “Founders Edition”?
Edited by Mr Whippy on Saturday 12th March 13:31
Mr Whippy said:
Uhhh Telegram.
So how do you make it send you updates?
I’ve searched for FE PartAlert but I can’t find that user.
My user is “Mr Cocknose” if it needs an invite.
https://t.me/joinchat/AAAAAEii3xT81U1A6tLjrQSo how do you make it send you updates?
I’ve searched for FE PartAlert but I can’t find that user.
My user is “Mr Cocknose” if it needs an invite.
Either on your phone (not the way I did it) or put the Telegram app on your PC and it'll sync to your phone app (the way I did it) Having it on your PC as well will be useful as you will get notifications on your desktop and it's easier to click the links and buy quickly.
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Saturday 12th March 13:32
Ah thanks that looks good.
I was just reading about creating a bot in telegram, which could then watch the products xml at Scan to look for… well, this is the issue, how the product is listed.
It looks like Scan got FEs on 10th Feb and 10th Mar, and given the rather sudden amount of cards available generally, and no doubt price cuts, I think grabbing an FE by the next drop should be fairly easy!
Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.
I can commit to the rest of my parts now feeling confident I can grab an FE for retail pricing…!
I was just reading about creating a bot in telegram, which could then watch the products xml at Scan to look for… well, this is the issue, how the product is listed.
It looks like Scan got FEs on 10th Feb and 10th Mar, and given the rather sudden amount of cards available generally, and no doubt price cuts, I think grabbing an FE by the next drop should be fairly easy!
Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.
I can commit to the rest of my parts now feeling confident I can grab an FE for retail pricing…!
Mr Whippy said:
I think grabbing an FE by the next drop should be fairly easy!
Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.
I can commit to the rest of my parts now feeling confident I can grab an FE for retail pricing…!
Fingers crossed for you, but I’d be surprised if it ends up being as easy as you’re hoping!Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.
I can commit to the rest of my parts now feeling confident I can grab an FE for retail pricing…!
HRL said:
Fingers crossed for you, but I’d be surprised if it ends up being as easy as you’re hoping!
Even though I have already used up my FE token and can't buy another I could easily have bought others late last year and early this year. Before I got my 3080 from elsewhere and muted Telegram I got straight through to the buy button. Depends if you are online at your PC when the notification arrives.HRL said:
Mr Whippy said:
I think grabbing an FE by the next drop should be fairly easy!
Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.
I can commit to the rest of my parts now feeling confident I can grab an FE for retail pricing…!
Fingers crossed for you, but I’d be surprised if it ends up being as easy as you’re hoping!Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.
I can commit to the rest of my parts now feeling confident I can grab an FE for retail pricing…!
Arguably the FE cards are desirable due to their low rrp, but the fact supply is outstripping demand quickly right now will see non-FE prices softening, and so demand for FE will wane.
I won’t pretend I’m a market expert but just observing the recent change and the rate at which it’s happened is quite surprising.
Maybe many are now waiting on the 40 series, and what Intel and AMD plan to bring to market later this year?
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