WFH laptop - budget £775

[LunarOne]

romeodelta said:

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

Can't help but this seems like a strange approach from so many angles.

Helpdesk support for some random POS laptop from Currys with whatever crappy AV software it comes with blocking everything, will be a nightmare. No SOE image, user has admin rights to install all the viruses they want, warranty claims, RTB, have to talk every user through installing VPN and other software. Madness.

My bet is Procurement are struggling/can't be arsed to source a bulk order due to the global shortage, so have suggested this - but it will come back to bite them 100%.

Because Citrix. Everything on the laptop itself belongs to the user, and the corporate domain lives in the virtual session, so the user can't do anything damaging,. It's called BYOD, and it's a way to let users have the computer they want. It also means the user's computer doesn't need to have much power. If the user breaks the hardware, they can access the same session from any other computer securely. No user terminal backups are needed and it saves lots of money.

I get BYOD as an exception, but as a rule for 1000s of users? I've personally never been a fan of VDI, just seems like this is going to be a headache to support IMO.

VDI eliminates the headaches. The user can do whatever they like to their own PC, so they aren't locked down by onerous workplace policy enforcement. The business delivers a secure environment which users can't mess with. No need to have a separate device for work and personal use. Scales massively, easily and invisibly to users. I do freelance consulting work for a company who get 50% of their revenue from implementing VDI, although I don't work on that tech myself. It's not suitable for users who need to do processor/GPU intensive engineering or graphical work, but for most users who do cloud-based CRM, database or MS Office it's the way forward.

[dmsims]

https://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/product_detail/2...

[romeodelta]

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

Can't help but this seems like a strange approach from so many angles.

Helpdesk support for some random POS laptop from Currys with whatever crappy AV software it comes with blocking everything, will be a nightmare. No SOE image, user has admin rights to install all the viruses they want, warranty claims, RTB, have to talk every user through installing VPN and other software. Madness.

My bet is Procurement are struggling/can't be arsed to source a bulk order due to the global shortage, so have suggested this - but it will come back to bite them 100%.

Because Citrix. Everything on the laptop itself belongs to the user, and the corporate domain lives in the virtual session, so the user can't do anything damaging,. It's called BYOD, and it's a way to let users have the computer they want. It also means the user's computer doesn't need to have much power. If the user breaks the hardware, they can access the same session from any other computer securely. No user terminal backups are needed and it saves lots of money.

I get BYOD as an exception, but as a rule for 1000s of users? I've personally never been a fan of VDI, just seems like this is going to be a headache to support IMO.

VDI eliminates the headaches. The user can do whatever they like to their own PC, so they aren't locked down by onerous workplace policy enforcement. The business delivers a secure environment which users can't mess with. No need to have a separate device for work and personal use. Scales massively, easily and invisibly to users. I do freelance consulting work for a company who get 50% of their revenue from implementing VDI, although I don't work on that tech myself. It's not suitable for users who need to do processor/GPU intensive engineering or graphical work, but for most users who do cloud-based CRM, database or MS Office it's the way forward.

From an infrastructure perspective, I get it, 100%. But it moves the headache elsewhere.

From an Internal IT/Helpdesk angle, what happens when Susan from Accounts can't even open Citrix because there is so much malware running on the machine? Or Dave from Sales can't connect to wifi because the HP Support Assistant or some other piece of crap bloatware has updated the drivers?

Views depend on the angle of your experience, I guess.

[ollyprice87]

romeodelta said:

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

Can't help but this seems like a strange approach from so many angles.

Helpdesk support for some random POS laptop from Currys with whatever crappy AV software it comes with blocking everything, will be a nightmare. No SOE image, user has admin rights to install all the viruses they want, warranty claims, RTB, have to talk every user through installing VPN and other software. Madness.

My bet is Procurement are struggling/can't be arsed to source a bulk order due to the global shortage, so have suggested this - but it will come back to bite them 100%.

Because Citrix. Everything on the laptop itself belongs to the user, and the corporate domain lives in the virtual session, so the user can't do anything damaging,. It's called BYOD, and it's a way to let users have the computer they want. It also means the user's computer doesn't need to have much power. If the user breaks the hardware, they can access the same session from any other computer securely. No user terminal backups are needed and it saves lots of money.

I get BYOD as an exception, but as a rule for 1000s of users? I've personally never been a fan of VDI, just seems like this is going to be a headache to support IMO.

VDI eliminates the headaches. The user can do whatever they like to their own PC, so they aren't locked down by onerous workplace policy enforcement. The business delivers a secure environment which users can't mess with. No need to have a separate device for work and personal use. Scales massively, easily and invisibly to users. I do freelance consulting work for a company who get 50% of their revenue from implementing VDI, although I don't work on that tech myself. It's not suitable for users who need to do processor/GPU intensive engineering or graphical work, but for most users who do cloud-based CRM, database or MS Office it's the way forward.

From an infrastructure perspective, I get it, 100%. But it moves the headache elsewhere.

From an Internal IT/Helpdesk angle, what happens when Susan from Accounts can't even open Citrix because there is so much malware running on the machine? Or Dave from Sales can't connect to wifi because the HP Support Assistant or some other piece of crap bloatware has updated the drivers?

Views depend on the angle of your experience, I guess.

I used to work for an IT services place that were infatuated with selling Citrix and VDI environments to customers that really didn't need it. I left in the end, A, as it was crap, B, the managers were a bunch of dick swingers who cared more about what company car they were getting and C, there business model of selling something like a full blown VDI environment to an engineering company with 4 office users was, in my eyes, unethical.

Anyway, I digress. What someone else said previous seems true to me. Purchasing can't be assed and/or they cut their IT budget so the team is now run by a bunch of guys that are slaves to finance. As an IT manager I could not except supporting that shower. "Onerous workplace policy" these policies exist for a reason! Imagine the clusterfk when Julie from payroll is in a rush to submit everything, clicks a dodgy link, bricks her laptop, no one from It can connect to fix and no one gets paid for a month. What a mess.

[ATG]

romeodelta said:

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

Can't help but this seems like a strange approach from so many angles.

Helpdesk support for some random POS laptop from Currys with whatever crappy AV software it comes with blocking everything, will be a nightmare. No SOE image, user has admin rights to install all the viruses they want, warranty claims, RTB, have to talk every user through installing VPN and other software. Madness.

My bet is Procurement are struggling/can't be arsed to source a bulk order due to the global shortage, so have suggested this - but it will come back to bite them 100%.

Because Citrix. Everything on the laptop itself belongs to the user, and the corporate domain lives in the virtual session, so the user can't do anything damaging,. It's called BYOD, and it's a way to let users have the computer they want. It also means the user's computer doesn't need to have much power. If the user breaks the hardware, they can access the same session from any other computer securely. No user terminal backups are needed and it saves lots of money.

I get BYOD as an exception, but as a rule for 1000s of users? I've personally never been a fan of VDI, just seems like this is going to be a headache to support IMO.

VDI eliminates the headaches. The user can do whatever they like to their own PC, so they aren't locked down by onerous workplace policy enforcement. The business delivers a secure environment which users can't mess with. No need to have a separate device for work and personal use. Scales massively, easily and invisibly to users. I do freelance consulting work for a company who get 50% of their revenue from implementing VDI, although I don't work on that tech myself. It's not suitable for users who need to do processor/GPU intensive engineering or graphical work, but for most users who do cloud-based CRM, database or MS Office it's the way forward.

From an infrastructure perspective, I get it, 100%. But it moves the headache elsewhere.

From an Internal IT/Helpdesk angle, what happens when Susan from Accounts can't even open Citrix because there is so much malware running on the machine? Or Dave from Sales can't connect to wifi because the HP Support Assistant or some other piece of crap bloatware has updated the drivers?

Views depend on the angle of your experience, I guess.

It's Susan's problem. It's Dave's problem. They don't get to pick up the phone and ask the Corp helpdesk for support. Part of the deal is that they take responsibility for this stuff themselves. It's their device. If they need some 3rd party support for their own device, fine, their problem. If they're unable to do their job because they can't manage to make their own device work, then they either come to the office to work or they get a P45.

And this works fine in the real world. I work for a bank with well over 100,000 staff world wide. All of us are sat in front of a PC almost all day. We virtualised the desktops envs a few years back, so almost all of the hardware in our offices is just thin clients running linux, and people use their own kit when they're travelling or working from home. If people really want an office laptop, then they can have one, but almost no one does,

[ATG]

klan8456 said:

Hi all,

A friend’s company is now offering some funding for WFH technology, after holding out for the last 15 months.

The budget is 775£ for a laptop. They are looking for something that is relatively small and light, and will handle running a Citrix virtual session and ideally 2 external monitors.

Are there any such laptops around? How about those which swivel around and you can use the screen as a tablet - what is the starting price for those?

Many thanks. I was asked these questions but honestly have about as much idea as the person asking them!

I've been using an Asus UX305CA for that exact requirement for the last 3-5 (?) years. It's got a really low-end spec, e.g. a piddly little Intel CORE m3 processor, because that is all it needs. But it is packaged nicely; decent battery, high res touch screen, and an ultrabook form factor (i.e. very thin, light, good quality metal case). Mine runs two external monitors in addition to the built in one, so I end up with a three screen desktop. Works flawlessly. Cost buttons.

I doubt that still make that particular machine, but I'd definitely be following the same pattern if I was buying something now. A nicely packaged machine so it is pleasant to use, while saving money by going for a really low hardware spec because its tasks will be so undemanding and it'll help with battery life.

Edited by ATG on Friday 11th June 12:01

[ATG]

ollyprice87 said:

Imagine the clusterfk when Julie from payroll is in a rush to submit everything, clicks a dodgy link, bricks her laptop, no one from It can connect to fix and no one gets paid for a month. What a mess.

Julie goes to her kid's laptop, types the firm's URL into a browser which starts a Citrix session in the browser. It shows her desktop env precisely as it was when she blew her own laptop up. No work lost. She picks up precisely where she left off and gets on with her with her time-critical work, albeit with her kid screaming at her for being a moron who's just bricked her own computer and stopped her kid playing minecraft. This is how it works in the real world. If it didn't work, we, and countless other firms, wouldn't be doing it.

[LunarOne]

ATG said:

ollyprice87 said:

Imagine the clusterfk when Julie from payroll is in a rush to submit everything, clicks a dodgy link, bricks her laptop, no one from It can connect to fix and no one gets paid for a month. What a mess.

Julie goes to her kid's laptop, types the firm's URL into a browser which starts a Citrix session in the browser. It shows her desktop env precisely as it was when she blew her own laptop up. No work lost. She picks up precisely where she left off and gets on with her with her time-critical work, albeit with her kid screaming at her for being a moron who's just bricked her own computer and stopped her kid playing minecraft. This is how it works in the real world. If it didn't work, we, and countless other firms, wouldn't be doing it.

What he/she/they said.

[offspring86]

LunarOne said:

What he/she/they said.

My employer runs everything on Citrix and has done since I first joined almost 7 years ago. During that time I've had 4 different laptops, all priced in the £700-£900 area (obviously they wouldn't have paid quite that amount).

As Citrix performance isn't really impacted by the laptops ability, why wouldn't they spend half that on machines? IT's something I've wondered for a while but never asked.

[LunarOne]

offspring86 said:

LunarOne said:

What he/she/they said.

My employer runs everything on Citrix and has done since I first joined almost 7 years ago. During that time I've had 4 different laptops, all priced in the £700-£900 area (obviously they wouldn't have paid quite that amount).

As Citrix performance isn't really impacted by the laptops ability, why wouldn't they spend half that on machines? IT's something I've wondered for a while but never asked.

Because for business use you need a laptop with a good screen/keyboard and battery life, remote management, security chips, docking station capabilities and a 3-year on-site warranty so that you don't have to send off hardware and wait days/weeks for a fix. All this is pretty standard on business/enterprise grade laptops and not even a consideration on consumer laptops bought for less money by home users.

[offspring86]

LunarOne said:

Because for business use you need a laptop with a good screen/keyboard and battery life, remote management, security chips, docking station capabilities and a 3-year on-site warranty so that you don't have to send off hardware and wait days/weeks for a fix. All this is pretty standard on business/enterprise grade laptops and not even a consideration on consumer laptops bought for less money by home users.

Makes sense. Thank you.

[Countdown]

romeodelta said:

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

LunarOne said:

romeodelta said:

Can't help but this seems like a strange approach from so many angles.

Helpdesk support for some random POS laptop from Currys with whatever crappy AV software it comes with blocking everything, will be a nightmare. No SOE image, user has admin rights to install all the viruses they want, warranty claims, RTB, have to talk every user through installing VPN and other software. Madness.

My bet is Procurement are struggling/can't be arsed to source a bulk order due to the global shortage, so have suggested this - but it will come back to bite them 100%.

Because Citrix. Everything on the laptop itself belongs to the user, and the corporate domain lives in the virtual session, so the user can't do anything damaging,. It's called BYOD, and it's a way to let users have the computer they want. It also means the user's computer doesn't need to have much power. If the user breaks the hardware, they can access the same session from any other computer securely. No user terminal backups are needed and it saves lots of money.

I get BYOD as an exception, but as a rule for 1000s of users? I've personally never been a fan of VDI, just seems like this is going to be a headache to support IMO.

VDI eliminates the headaches. The user can do whatever they like to their own PC, so they aren't locked down by onerous workplace policy enforcement. The business delivers a secure environment which users can't mess with. No need to have a separate device for work and personal use. Scales massively, easily and invisibly to users. I do freelance consulting work for a company who get 50% of their revenue from implementing VDI, although I don't work on that tech myself. It's not suitable for users who need to do processor/GPU intensive engineering or graphical work, but for most users who do cloud-based CRM, database or MS Office it's the way forward.

From an infrastructure perspective, I get it, 100%. But it moves the headache elsewhere.

From an Internal IT/Helpdesk angle, what happens when Susan from Accounts can't even open Citrix because there is so much malware running on the machine? Or Dave from Sales can't connect to wifi because the HP Support Assistant or some other piece of crap bloatware has updated the drivers?

Views depend on the angle of your experience, I guess.

Exactly the same at our place. You can BYOD if you want and log on via Citrix but there is a standard list of IT provided equipment (Surface or Laptop) that you pick from if you want the company to pay for it. The machines come pre-loaded with software, AV stuff, stuff that stops you surfing pron (so I'm told).

[klan8456]

Well, this turned into an interesting thread.

For a bunch of complicated reasons, the purchase didn’t go through.

Are there any new or better deals out there now, e.g. on Amazon Prime Day?

Reminder: 2-in-1 laptop desired, under £775

Thanks so much

[sparkyhx]

klan8456 said:

ollyprice87 said:

Plenty in that price range but why don't the company order them and lose the VAT?

No idea. Massive global company operating in 100 countries, so probably just easier to have a blanket global policy.

Poor show, I can think of a thousand reasons a significant company would not want uncontrolled equipment on their networks.
- virus, hacking, software updates, dodgy software install, support, loss or theft, failure and fix, etc etc

Barge and Pole

[Mr Pointy]

klan8456 said:

Well, this turned into an interesting thread.

For a bunch of complicated reasons, the purchase didn’t go through.

Are there any new or better deals out there now, e.g. on Amazon Prime Day?

Reminder: 2-in-1 laptop desired, under £775

Can you say why it needs to be a 2-in-1 device? It does cut out a lot of good laptops.

[klan8456]

sparkyhx said:

Poor show, I can think of a thousand reasons a significant company would not want uncontrolled equipment on their networks.
- virus, hacking, software updates, dodgy software install, support, loss or theft, failure and fix, etc etc

Barge and Pole

VDI. It’s completely standard across the industry. No one gets work laptops anymore.

[klan8456]

Mr Pointy said:

Can you say why it needs to be a 2-in-1 device? It does cut out a lot of good laptops.

Friend’s preference - they want to be able to use it as a tablet / tap and scroll when reviewing documents.

[ATG]

sparkyhx said:

klan8456 said:

ollyprice87 said:

Plenty in that price range but why don't the company order them and lose the VAT?

No idea. Massive global company operating in 100 countries, so probably just easier to have a blanket global policy.

Poor show, I can think of a thousand reasons a significant company would not want uncontrolled equipment on their networks.
- virus, hacking, software updates, dodgy software install, support, loss or theft, failure and fix, etc etc

Barge and Pole

The devices will not be on their network

[sparkyhx]

klan8456 said:

VDI. It’s completely standard across the industry. No one gets work laptops anymore.

er............... no it isnt. It might be utilised and becoming more common, but it is far far from standard. Even amongst traditional early adopters IT consultancies with hundreds of thousand of employees

[ATG]

LunarOne said:

ATG said:

ollyprice87 said:

Imagine the clusterfk when Julie from payroll is in a rush to submit everything, clicks a dodgy link, bricks her laptop, no one from It can connect to fix and no one gets paid for a month. What a mess.

Julie goes to her kid's laptop, types the firm's URL into a browser which starts a Citrix session in the browser. It shows her desktop env precisely as it was when she blew her own laptop up. No work lost. She picks up precisely where she left off and gets on with her with her time-critical work, albeit with her kid screaming at her for being a moron who's just bricked her own computer and stopped her kid playing minecraft. This is how it works in the real world. If it didn't work, we, and countless other firms, wouldn't be doing it.

What he/she/they said.

(My preferred personal pronouns are tt/tt/tt's)