Windows 11 - lightweight? fast? and Android?

[Mr Pointy]

xeny said:

Mr Pointy said:

Wow, that's even more restrictive than the TPM 2.0 requirement. It looks like you need at least an 8th generation processor & they were only released in late 2017/2018.

Surely they aren't condemning eveything before 2018 to the bin?

I'm wondering if that list is for being sold new with 11, rather than compatibility per se.

This link https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibi... suggests TPM 1.2 is acceptable.

Yes, hopefully we're in the headless chicken phase & the picture will become clearer in time. It does mean I'll have to be much more careful when picking up machines off ebay - there are an awful lot perfectly good little desktops with 5th/6th/7th generation processors in them. Let's hope they can still be upgraded.

[sideways sid]

saaby93 said:

markiii said:

doesn't sound very bloaty

it does if you have a 40GB hard drive

Why not upgrade the hard drive?

[Jinx]

Mr Pointy said:

Nimby said:

Edit: Ahh - my old i5 6500 CPU is not on the supported list.

Wow, that's even more restrictive than the TPM 2.0 requirement. It looks like you need at least an 8th generation processor & they were only released in late 2017/2018.

Surely they aren't condemning eveything before 2018 to the bin?

Don't believe the list too much - my CPU (i7 7820X) isn't on the list but after enabling TPM in the bios the "health check" said my machine is ready for windows 11.

[saaby93]

Dont most people skip the inbetween versions of Widows
When is 12 arriving?

[Mr Whippy]

It’s a bizarre requirement to need a TPM.

I’m sure just like in Win10 currently, where you “need” a TPM to use bitlocker, you can just set a flag in a config screen so you can just use a password for encryption.


The entire encryption space is wonky really.

A USB key with keys for boot. How hard is that as an option? But no. You need TPM or remember a password.

[FunkyNige]

Nimby said:

colin79666 said:

Requires TPM 2.0.

My 5 year old Gigabyte motherboard has a 14 pin header for the module and they seem cheap enough. Not a showstopper...

You say that, but I've just tried to buy the Gigabyte one and everywhere is sold out! Yes, I know they'll be back in stock within the next 4 years...
Still don't really understand what it is and why I want one.

[Nimby]

FunkyNige said:

Nimby said:

colin79666 said:

Requires TPM 2.0.

My 5 year old Gigabyte motherboard has a 14 pin header for the module and they seem cheap enough. Not a showstopper...

You say that, but I've just tried to buy the Gigabyte one and everywhere is sold out! Yes, I know they'll be back in stock within the next 4 years...
Still don't really understand what it is and why I want one.

See my followup post - turns out I don't need an external module. I enabled some "Intel security" setting in my BIOS and now typing "TPM" at a command prompt says I have TPM 2.0. (H110 chipset and i5 6500 CPU).

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Gary C said:

Thought MS had declared windows 10 was the last operating system with only updates needed ever after ?

and the product managers name is ironically ' Panos '

ah well, one of my machines still runs MSDOS 3.1

Edited by Gary C on Thursday 24th June 18:37

I think you will find that the code for Windows 11 has a nested #include of MSDOS 3.1

[colin79666]

Nimby said:

See my followup post - turns out I don't need an external module. I enabled some "Intel security" setting in my BIOS and now typing "TPM" at a command prompt says I have TPM 2.0. (H110 chipset and i5 6500 CPU).

From what I’ve found online it came in with the 4th gen core series chips. I’m stuffed with my 2nd gen (Sandybridge) i7. To be fair Windows 10 will be around a while yet, by 2025 I’ll have had more than 10 years out the machine.

[Order66]

saaby93 said:

It's the other way around
How did their machine with Windows XP and 4MB RAM and a 20GB HDD not only outperform the latest machine with 60GB of bloatware but have decent features like a virtual desktop and if necessary a task manager that could actually stop errant processes

Really, your 32-bit windows XP machine could edit 4k video?

And I have no issues with Task manager - can kill any process I want pretty much immediately, certainly quicker than I can do it on a linux command line.

[gaseous clay]

eccles said:

Nimby said:

Nimby said:

colin79666 said:

Requires TPM 2.0.

My 5 year old Gigabyte motherboard has a 14 pin header for the module and they seem cheap enough. Not a showstopper...

Hmm now I'm confused. The Health Check says my PC can't run Win 11 and I assumed it was the TPM issue; I have 16GB of RAM, a half-empty 240GB SSD, but no external TPM module.

However the TPM command gives:
.

So the Health Check is completely useless as it doesn't say why the system can't run Win11.

I had the same. Downloaded the app, and it says 'not compatible'...but no reason why..that's really helpful!

Check you have TPM enabled in the BIOS. I built a new PC about a year ago and it failed, had a quick read, enabled the option in the BIOS and all is good now. Ironically the machine I actually want it on I can't check as it runs on ARM and won't emulate the x64 necessary to run the Health Check tool

[NMNeil]

saaby93 said:

there must be a way of installing about 20GB of useful stuff and the rest only on demand

"Internet connection and Microsoft accounts: Windows 11 Home edition requires internet connectivity and a Microsoft account to complete device setup on first use. Switching a device out of Windows 11 Home in S mode also requires internet connectivity. For all Windows 11 editions, internet access is required to perform updates and to download and take advantage of some features. A Microsoft account is required for some features."

Just like farcebook and their Occulus VR headset, you have to have an account for it to work.
Stuff that, I'll stick to Linux.

[LordFlathead]

colin79666 said:

Requires TPM 2.0. Seems to me like an artificial blocker to force people to buy a new machine. Only PCs from about 2015 onwards will have this, lots of people still have PCs they upgraded to 10 from Windows 7/8 that otherwise we’ll exceed the minimum requirements.

Tpm is being sold to you as a secure platform where the license is part of the hardware and the user is tagged into that hardware.

Microsoft said:

Uses TPM technology for platform device authentication by using the TPM’s unique RSA key, which is burned into itself.

When actually it is a unique identifier which confirms that this specific PC was used on a network, and with a known user (Microsoft account). Although it is currently possible to install windows as a local install, going forwards it is going to be a verified account only. Akin to MAC addressing on your ISP where it is tied to your account. In Windows 11 very few things will be private anymore.

[Mr Whippy]

LordFlathead said:

When actually it is a unique identifier which confirms that this specific PC was used on a network, and with a known user (Microsoft account). Although it is currently possible to install windows as a local install, going forwards it is going to be a verified account only. Akin to MAC addressing on your ISP where it is tied to your account. In Windows 11 very few things will be private anymore.

It’s nice that every step they take towards ultimate bloaty spyware, Linux takes a step forward to being the ultimate windows replacement.

Sadly Linux still has a horrible textual input UI that needs you to google to find out how to do anything, while control panel did in windows a quarter of a century ago just had a graphical UI to do most common tasks.

And Linux has no way to stop an app having firewall traffic, only ip blocking. That’s if you like to set all that up manually in a command line interface.

Hmmmm

[saaby93]

LordFlathead said:

In Windows 11 very few things will be private anymore.

there's a discussion about what should be private vs public in the honourable gent thread

[williamp]

This reminds me, rather worringly about a new scientiwh article from 1997 (!!!)

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16221908-30...

They found a complete version of MS flight simulator buried inside Excel 97..They deciced that

"...However daft this software-cluttering may be, it has forced manufacturers to produce hard disc drives with ever-increasing capacity-so that, for example, they can now be built into digital TV receivers as an alternative to videotape for recording TV programmes.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg16221908-30...

Imagine computers and TV coming togetehr. But then again, imagine how much wasted code ther is in win11. Perhaps....

[LordFlathead]

Mr Whippy said:

LordFlathead said:

When actually it is a unique identifier which confirms that this specific PC was used on a network, and with a known user (Microsoft account). Although it is currently possible to install windows as a local install, going forwards it is going to be a verified account only. Akin to MAC addressing on your ISP where it is tied to your account. In Windows 11 very few things will be private anymore.

It’s nice that every step they take towards ultimate bloaty spyware, Linux takes a step forward to being the ultimate windows replacement.

Sadly Linux still has a horrible textual input UI that needs you to google to find out how to do anything, while control panel did in windows a quarter of a century ago just had a graphical UI to do most common tasks.

And Linux has no way to stop an app having firewall traffic, only ip blocking. That’s if you like to set all that up manually in a command line interface.

Hmmmm

Linux is fast becoming something I want to adopt. However, for the all the reasons you mention this is my excuse not to. An alternative would be to run Linux and have another appliance with two NIC's (old PC) running PFSense. It has good reviews, is free and is easily deployable.

https://www.pfsense.org/

saaby93 said:

LordFlathead said:

In Windows 11 very few things will be private anymore.

there's a discussion about what should be private vs public in the honourable gent thread

Thanks I will take a look.

[xeny]

Mr Whippy said:

Sadly Linux still has a horrible textual input UI that needs you to google to find out how to do anything, while control panel did in windows a quarter of a century ago just had a graphical UI to do most common tasks.

I won't comment on the firewall, as I've not really played with either, but my experience is that Linux, Windows and MacOS have GUI tools for making common settings, and require you to dive into text interfaces to achieve less usual goals.

In Windows that's regedit (which many people consider pretty horrid), where you find or create keys and type in text values for them, in Linux and MacOS, that's where you type in commands in a "horrid textual UI".

[Order66]

xeny said:

In Windows that's regedit (which many people consider pretty horrid), where you find or create keys and type in text values for them, in Linux and MacOS, that's where you type in commands in a "horrid textual UI".

I think you have the concept of what the windows registry is and is used for confused. I develop daily on windows (and linux) and haven't had to use regedit in many many years. Windows has a command line (and powershell) which is a conceptual equivalent of the linux terminal.

[saaby93]

Is windows Xp out of copyright yet?