Computer monitors & eye strain

[g4ry13]

Here's a few that I have seen in the sub-£400 range:

BenQ: https://www.ebuyer.com/936553-benq-ew2780u-27-4k-u...
Asus: https://www.ebuyer.com/950718-asus-tuf-gaming-vg28...

[wyson]

Some random thoughts…

BenQ has speakers. The Dell doesn’t.

The Dell has a more adjustable stand.
The Dell delivers more power through the USB C cable 90W vs 60W.
The Dell has a greater port selection.

The BenQ panel specs seem good. On paper, better than the Dell’s, but in reality, its hard to tell. Its definitely not a budget panel with those specs though.

The Asus’ glaring weakness is port selection, it doesn’t have USB support which is not great for future proofing, even if you don’t use it now. Would avoid it.

Would consider the BenQ, esp if you don’t need the Dell’s connectivity and need speakers.

I find the lack of speakers on my P Series Dell annoying. TBF it’s supposed to be an office monitor, but sometimes I want to Chromecast to it from my iPad, but the video has no sound! As far as I can make out, I need to buy a HDMI sound / video splitter to send the video signal to the monitor and the sound signal to an external speaker. Such a faff. If you don’t use the monitor for entertainment and can play sound through your laptop, this shouldn’t be an issue however.

Edited by wyson on Tuesday 21st March 23:07

[wyson]

So with the Dell for your extra money you are getting a better stand, more connections, extra output ports / ability for the monitor to act as a hub.

All very officey. Don’t know how much you need all that stuff.

[g4ry13]

Speakers are not really a factor for me.

Generally when I read reviews of monitors with speakers in them the feedback is that the speakers are poor. I think that I would rather the money is spent by the manufacturer towards a good display rather than compromise the display at the expense of including some speakers.

It feels a bit limited for 4K screens which are £500 or under. I saw this screen on Amazon - claims to be 4k, 28 inch, anti-flicker. It's almost £200 cheaper than the Dell so am not sure whether corners are being cut.

Currently, I do have a Hub to connect my work computer to. I don't have any real need to connect lots of things into a screen.so that functionality is probably a bit wasted on me.

[wyson]

No mention of a height adjustable stand. Height is probably the most important adjustment in terms of ergonomics. The BenQ stand is also not height adjustable.

Also no USB C.

Last time I researched office monitors, I got a P series Dell, because for office use it had no glaring weaknesses, thats literally what they are specced and designed for. The prices were also decent, esp. all the refurbs knocking around.

But I know your pain, it can definitely be hard to judge a monitor from just spec sheets and reviews.

Anyway, good luck OP.

Edited by wyson on Wednesday 22 March 07:46

[g4ry13]

Thanks for the advice on this, it's greatly appreciated.

I did notice the BenQ is not height adjustable. That seems a good feature to have - although looking at my current screen it's fixed height.

When looking at the Dell P series monitors: 27 inch, 4K - there are 4 options.

This one for £329. This for £369. Then we have the £482 one which I posted previously which has lots of ports. Finally there's the £640 Ultrasharp screen

So what's really the difference between them all? £329 & £369 both have speakers. The £369 has USB-C whereas the £329 does not appear to. Or I can pay an extra £120, which loses the speakers and gains more ports has Comfortview Plus (instead of Comfortview on the £369).

I'm not really what would make the £480 screen have a better picture than the £369 one based on their specs.

[Frik]

g4ry13 said:

<snip>I set the brightness to 10 (out of 100). Generally I find bright screens uncomfortable to look at. Would a low brightness result in more flicker?</snip>

This bit jumps out at me. Why do you need the monitor to be so dark?this suggests the ambient light is very low and you need to reduce the brightness to reduce contrast to the surroundings.

I used to get bad eye strain when I first started WFH because my workstation is in the corner of the room and it's quite dark, especially on late afternoon winter days. I now tend to run most applications in dark mode and have an LED desk light to increase ambient light locally and don't have the same problems. Your monitor should not be illuminating you IMHO.

[voyds9]

For 5 minutes per day for the next month consciuosly blink every 4-5 seconds

Often working on a screen casues blink rate to drop which leads to a drier cornea surface which can cause irritation and blurring

You may also wish to try ocular lubricants (dry eye drops)

There has been a noticeable increase in dry eye since pandemic

[g4ry13]

Frik said:

g4ry13 said:

<snip>I set the brightness to 10 (out of 100). Generally I find bright screens uncomfortable to look at. Would a low brightness result in more flicker?</snip>

This bit jumps out at me. Why do you need the monitor to be so dark?this suggests the ambient light is very low and you need to reduce the brightness to reduce contrast to the surroundings.

I used to get bad eye strain when I first started WFH because my workstation is in the corner of the room and it's quite dark, especially on late afternoon winter days. I now tend to run most applications in dark mode and have an LED desk light to increase ambient light locally and don't have the same problems. Your monitor should not be illuminating you IMHO.

I find it can be quite piercing to look at a bright screen for a long time so tend to dial the brightness down as it's more comfortable on the eyes.

In terms of lighting; I don't currently use any desktop lighting and either use natural light (if it permits) or turn on a light if I find it a bit dingy. I do have a desk light which I could use but have not felt a need to use it.

[wyson]

Are you looking up independent reviews?

https://www.pcworld.com/article/630195/630195.html

For the S2722QC the contrast ratio of 270:1 is immediately concerning. Modern IPS panels can manage about 1000:1, IPS black 2000:1.

So basically, through independent reviews, for the panel you want to compare:

1) Contrast ratio, the higher the better.
2) Delta E. the lower the better, below 2 ideally. Some budget monitors are 3.x or 4.x, and the colours won't be accurate.
3) Brightness in NITS, the higher the better.
4) Backlight luminosity tests, the less variance across the panel the better. Although only the nerdy reviews go into this depth.
5) Colour gamut support, the higher it is across different standards, the better.

So how does this all play out? A low contrast ratio means blacks won't be as dark (amongst other things). A high Delta E and narrow colour band support will mean UI elements won't look at good as they can. Like a developer might put bright yellow text on a rich green background using his / her colour calibrated monitor. An el cheapo monitor might display a pale yellow on a pale green background making it very hard to read. Poor panel luminosity / consistency will make patches of text darker or brighter than other bits, which is really bad for your eyes. Backlight quality is one of the first things to fall by the wayside with budget monitors and this isn't captured on spec sheets.

The S2721QS is hobbled by no USB C, no height adjustable stand, although the panel specs look decent on paper and nigh on identical to the P2723QE.

BTW only the P2723QE is a P Series monitor. The other 2 are S series, a step down in Dells hierarchy, and you can tell by their compromised specs over the P2723QE.

Look up the numbered checklist I posted above for the U2723QE. It is a U series monitor which sits above P in Dell's heirarchy and will beat S and P Series monitors on almost all, if not all the specs.

Would be a fine choice also, but for office work its a bit overkill.

Dell's highest grade are UP monitors, which are usually super expensive, colour calibrated etc. Definitely overkill for office work. My Mrs does illustration and has a UP series monitor. Side by side with my P series, colours look richer and deeper etc, but for the officey and text based work I do, the P series is good enough.

Edited by wyson on Thursday 23 March 14:45

[RizzoTheRat]

I have a 27" widescreen 2K monitor (Asus Predator), and would say that's probably about the right size/spec for the OP's requirements. My work laptop with basic onboard graphics has no problems driving it. Not convinced 4k is worth it unless you're planning to play games or watch films on it.

Also think about the lighting around you. I find the sun behind my monitor, or directly lighting the wall behind my monitor, causes me problem, but also using a monitor when it's dark around is a problem. For the latter I've just bought a Benq Screenbar which works really well at illuminating my desk without spilling on to the screen.

[g4ry13]

wyson said:

Are you looking up independent reviews?

https://www.pcworld.com/article/630195/630195.html

Is anything really ever independent?

I did have a look at Which? magazine and took the lazy option of watching some reviews / buying guides on YouTube. I had not made it as far as the review above or cnet / techadvisor reviews yet. The PC World review gives it 3.5 stars (out of 5 I assume). The technical tests certainly go over my head but based on the article the P2723QE performs slightly above average.

Based on the article, none of the monitors really excelled in all areas - there is some compromise with the specs along the way. The Asus performed well in max brightness, Delta E and not so great in contrast ratio and colour gamut.

The U2723QE has contrast ratio of 2000:1 according to Dell vs 1140:1 (PC World spec) for the P series. Brightness 379 for the U and 314 for P (the Asus ProArt is 452 and sub-£400). The colour gamut for the U looks much better than the P too. The UltraSharp is obviously a superior screen to the P and one does pay for it.

So the question is:

1) Am I really going to notice the difference between using an UltraSharp and a P for office based work / internet browsing / YouTube and some online poker?
2) If I push the budget out to £650 for an UltraSharp - are there other screens I should be considering in that price range instead?

[g4ry13]

RizzoTheRat said:

I have a 27" widescreen 2K monitor (Asus Predator), and would say that's probably about the right size/spec for the OP's requirements. My work laptop with basic onboard graphics has no problems driving it. Not convinced 4k is worth it unless you're planning to play games or watch films on it.

Also think about the lighting around you. I find the sun behind my monitor, or directly lighting the wall behind my monitor, causes me problem, but also using a monitor when it's dark around is a problem. For the latter I've just bought a Benq Screenbar which works really well at illuminating my desk without spilling on to the screen.

This is actually the first I have heard of the screen lighting. It looks a good idea and interesting.

It's probably one of those things you didn't think you needed until you start using it.

I'm currently in a fairly well lit room, I don't feel that it's especially dark or has much glare - i'm not aware that an issue exists with lighting.

[wyson]

g4ry13 said:

Is anything really ever independent?

I did have a look at Which? magazine and took the lazy option of watching some reviews / buying guides on YouTube. I had not made it as far as the review above or cnet / techadvisor reviews yet. The PC World review gives it 3.5 stars (out of 5 I assume). The technical tests certainly go over my head but based on the article the P2723QE performs slightly above average.

Based on the article, none of the monitors really excelled in all areas - there is some compromise with the specs along the way. The Asus performed well in max brightness, Delta E and not so great in contrast ratio and colour gamut.

The U2723QE has contrast ratio of 2000:1 according to Dell vs 1140:1 (PC World spec) for the P series. Brightness 379 for the U and 314 for P (the Asus ProArt is 452 and sub-£400). The colour gamut for the U looks much better than the P too. The UltraSharp is obviously a superior screen to the P and one does pay for it.

So the question is:

1) Am I really going to notice the difference between using an UltraSharp and a P for office based work / internet browsing / YouTube and some online poker?
2) If I push the budget out to £650 for an UltraSharp - are there other screens I should be considering in that price range instead?

Yah, I ignore their subjective ratings and concentrate on the technicals, depending on what I want out of a screen. Those reviews also focus on features for the RRP, when as a customer you can get lower prices / refurbs / deals, esp. on Dell products.

Its just like cars, I’ve driven very well reviewed products I absolutely hated, BMW are a stand out. Objectively I can’t say they are bad, but they are not what I’m looking for out of a car, (possibly front drive models excepted, which I don’t have experience of).

At the Ultrasharp level, some LG Ultrafine models come to mind which are comparable. The Dell Ultrasharp actually uses an LG panel.

And no, I don’t think Ultrasharp is worth it for your sort of use, but then ppl also drive Range Rovers in congested London traffic for the school run, so each to their own. You will definitely be getting a better monitor.

Edited by wyson on Thursday 23 March 17:15

[g4ry13]

wyson said:

g4ry13 said:

Is anything really ever independent?

I did have a look at Which? magazine and took the lazy option of watching some reviews / buying guides on YouTube. I had not made it as far as the review above or cnet / techadvisor reviews yet. The PC World review gives it 3.5 stars (out of 5 I assume). The technical tests certainly go over my head but based on the article the P2723QE performs slightly above average.

Based on the article, none of the monitors really excelled in all areas - there is some compromise with the specs along the way. The Asus performed well in max brightness, Delta E and not so great in contrast ratio and colour gamut.

The U2723QE has contrast ratio of 2000:1 according to Dell vs 1140:1 (PC World spec) for the P series. Brightness 379 for the U and 314 for P (the Asus ProArt is 452 and sub-£400). The colour gamut for the U looks much better than the P too. The UltraSharp is obviously a superior screen to the P and one does pay for it.

So the question is:

1) Am I really going to notice the difference between using an UltraSharp and a P for office based work / internet browsing / YouTube and some online poker?
2) If I push the budget out to £650 for an UltraSharp - are there other screens I should be considering in that price range instead?

Yah, I ignore their subjective ratings and concentrate on the technicals, depending on what I want out of a screen. Those reviews also focus on features for the RRP, when as a customer you can get lower prices / refurbs / deals, esp. on Dell products.

Its just like cars, I’ve driven very well reviewed products I absolutely hated, BMW are a stand out. Objectively I can’t say they are bad, but they are not what I’m looking for out of a car, (possibly front drive models excepted, which I don’t have experience of).

At the Ultrasharp level, some LG Ultrafine models come to mind which are comparable. The Dell Ultrasharp actually uses an LG panel.

And no, I don’t think Ultrasharp is worth it for your sort of use, but then ppl also drive Range Rovers in congested London traffic for the school run, so each to their own. You will definitely be getting a better monitor.

Edited by wyson on Thursday 23 March 17:15

Going back to the P2723QE, relative to the monitors compared against - the max brightness is on the low side (314), colour gamut is a bit unbalanced and colour error is slightly under 2. These specs would suggest it isn't anything exceptional but to the eye may very well be a nice picture.

For someone coming from a 1080p monitor to buying a 4K UltraSharp is a large step and probably selling myself something I don't need - arguably I may not have much need for 4K. One always wants the best for the money and to get the best possible. Being sensible, it comes down to whether the additional cost is really justified or wasted.

I think it will have to be a case of narrowing it down to a few monitors and then read a load of reviews. Then i'll probably be not much wiser and buy the Dell

[TameRacingDriver]

I would definitely go for 4K over 1440p. I've used all the resolutions, my daily at work is actually a 1440P 34" Acer monitor, designed for gaming, and it's fairly sharp, and certainly noticeably better than a 1080P monitor, however, I've also compared it with a 27" 4K monitor and the 4K monitor was a clear step up again, and gives very natural print like text and icons when scaled correctly.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could get 2x 27" 4K monitors for not much more money than a single 34" and it will be better for productivity I reckon.

[g4ry13]

TameRacingDriver said:

I would definitely go for 4K over 1440p. I've used all the resolutions, my daily at work is actually a 1440P 34" Acer monitor, designed for gaming, and it's fairly sharp, and certainly noticeably better than a 1080P monitor, however, I've also compared it with a 27" 4K monitor and the 4K monitor was a clear step up again, and gives very natural print like text and icons when scaled correctly.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could get 2x 27" 4K monitors for not much more money than a single 34" and it will be better for productivity I reckon.

That may be true. The limiting factor becomes desk space.

I use a 32'' at work and it does feel a bit on the large side. Unfortunately there do not seem to be many options between the 27/28 inch and 32 inch.

[TameRacingDriver]

g4ry13 said:

TameRacingDriver said:

I would definitely go for 4K over 1440p. I've used all the resolutions, my daily at work is actually a 1440P 34" Acer monitor, designed for gaming, and it's fairly sharp, and certainly noticeably better than a 1080P monitor, however, I've also compared it with a 27" 4K monitor and the 4K monitor was a clear step up again, and gives very natural print like text and icons when scaled correctly.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could get 2x 27" 4K monitors for not much more money than a single 34" and it will be better for productivity I reckon.

That may be true. The limiting factor becomes desk space.

I use a 32'' at work and it does feel a bit on the large side. Unfortunately there do not seem to be many options between the 27/28 inch and 32 inch.

Yes, you're not wrong, a 34" monitor is considerably more compact than 2x 27's, even 2x 24's. I think it's personal preference at this point, but out of a 27 and 32" 4k monitor I'd go with the latter and try and get used to it. With a resolution and size like that, you could feasibly get a usable window in each corner, but equally, if you need everything to be a normal size, everything is going to be pin sharp and detailed.

[wyson]

Regarding the brightness, you want the monitor to be at the same brightness as ambient light. Again a higher quality panel will do much better here. I noticed my budget AOC struggles at both extremes, it looks murky when dim and washed out when bright, where as my Dell P Series just looks dimmer and brighter.

The U series Dell will be a good purchase. Your poker cards will look amazing on it. Put yourself out of your misery and just look for the best deal.

To get the ball rolling, here is a certified refurbished one for about £540:

https://www.itcsales.co.uk/acatalog/Dell-U2723QE-U...

Edited by wyson on Thursday 23 March 19:35

[TimmyMallett]

I haven't read the entire thread but I use a backlight which really makes a difference, it's just a cheap sticky while LED strip that I adhere to the back of my monitors.