UK demands access to Apple users' encrypted data

[Benni]

globalist agenda.....the establishment....what next, jewish space lasers ?

[Tindersticks]

Probably worth our resident tin-foil brigade reading this because it shows that this dance happens regularly and why nothing will change:

https://takes.jamesomalley.co.uk/p/ask-the-compute...

BUT SUNAK

[Lucas Ayde]

Evanivitch said:

You brought the US into the conversation...

Last I heard, in the US you aren't going to get police at your door to take you off and arrest you for posting something that hurt someone's feelings on social media.

[Evanivitch]

Lucas Ayde said:

Evanivitch said:

You brought the US into the conversation...

Last I heard, in the US you aren't going to get police at your door to take you off and arrest you for posting something that hurt someone's feelings on social media.

There you go with your whataboutisms again.

I'm not aware of that happening in the UK either.

[130R]

Apple just removed end-to-end encryption for the UK. So the government have successfully weakened online security / privacy for all UK based users. Great job.

[Puzzles]

surprised the US hasnt kicked off more

[andyb28]

I just spotted the first few Twitter posts about this.

I am very surprised Apple just rolled over. Whilst I didn't have the Advanced Data Protection turned on, if you try to activate it now, it says it cant be turned on in the UK.

The strange thing for me is that I don't really have anything secure in my iCloud (I accept that you might want to encrypt phone backups). There are a lot of photos of my dogs haha. The places I do have secure data (Cloud storage, but not iCloud), they have Encryption and no noise is being made about those.

Are Android users getting the same treatment?

We are not looking good to the rest of the world on this.

Edit: Thinking about this further, surely Government employees, MP's etc must have Apple devices, that means that their phone backups are unencrypted. I wonder how long it will be before a breach happens. Seems like another stupid idea that wasn't consulted, just like the cookie pop up directive.

Edited by andyb28 on Friday 21st February 17:27

[biglove1772]

Some eggs on faces from page one of this thread.

[The Ferret]

Another amazingly well thought out move here from the UK Gov on behalf of the nation.

What a bunch of complete thunders we have looking after our interests

[768]

Another slow hand clap for this government.

[bmwmike]

biglove1772 said:

Some eggs on faces from page one of this thread.

I'm honestly amazed that they've rolled over. Disappointed too, and I'm not an apple user for my personal device.

[andyb28]

Thinking about this more. I don't think Apple have rolled over, instead I think they have done this because of the uneducated impossible requests for back doors.

[Craikeybaby]

I would rather have this than the illusion on encryption, but with back doors.

[onomatopoeia]

130R said:

Apple just removed end-to-end encryption for the UK. So the government have successfully weakened online security / privacy for all UK based users. Great job.

It should be pointed out that the data remains encrypted on Apple's servers and they can't decrypt it as they don't have the keys. The removal is of access to the service for new users and eventually existing users will lose access to their encrypted cloud data, but it will still be encrypted. I'm slightly curious of the GDPR implications if Apple were to delete it all, as it's not their data to delete.

Given that public key encryption is public domain, the algorithms are published everywhere and there are complete open source libraries implementing it, there is nothing to stop anyone that wants encrypted cloud storage with the same degree of encryption used in Apple ADP implementing their own. The only advantage of Apple's is ease of use.

Had Apple agreed to what the government required, it would have weakened online security for all UK based users and all other users worldwide. Anyone that believes that a "backdoor" will never be discovered by bad actors and exploited is living in cloud-cuckoo land.

Given that it would have to apply worldwide if implemented, (think about it for a moment - not all UK citizens are currently in the UK and not everyone in the UK is a UK citizen) there is then an obvious conflict with the US first and fourth amendments which would put Apple into a whole heap of trouble there.

I don't like the whole Apple ecosystem philosophy and their control of it, and as a consequence I won't buy their products, but they have made the right decision here.

[AlexC1981]

I don't have a huge issue with this. The police can get a warrant and search a house and all its contents if they suspect it contains bomb making instructions, child porn, contacts for obtaining drugs or illegal firearms etc. If this information is now being hidden in encrypted cloud services, why is it so wrong for that to also be searched if a warrant is obtained?

[Oliver Hardy]

AlexC1981 said:

I don't have a huge issue with this. The police can get a warrant and search a house and all its contents if they suspect it contains bomb making instructions, child porn, contacts for obtaining drugs or illegal firearms etc. If this information is now being hidden in encrypted cloud services, why is it so wrong for that to also be searched if a warrant is obtained?

They can demand your key to any encrypted data

https://rm.coe.int/countries-with-encryption-legis...

Under the terrorist act I believe they can seize any electronic equipment without having to have any suspicion/cause

[grumbledoak]

AlexC1981 said:

I don't have a huge issue with this.

Then you don't understand it.

AlexC1981 said:

The police can get a warrant and search a house and all its contents if they suspect it contains bomb making instructions, child porn, contacts for obtaining drugs or illegal firearms etc. If this information is now being hidden in encrypted cloud services, why is it so wrong for that to also be searched if a warrant is obtained?

They are not demanding that you give them your front door key after a warrant is obtained. They have that power already. What they demand is for everyone to leave a spare key under the doormat for them to use when they feel like it.

[AlexC1981]

Oliver Hardy said:

AlexC1981 said:

I don't have a huge issue with this. The police can get a warrant and search a house and all its contents if they suspect it contains bomb making instructions, child porn, contacts for obtaining drugs or illegal firearms etc. If this information is now being hidden in encrypted cloud services, why is it so wrong for that to also be searched if a warrant is obtained?

They can demand your key to any encrypted data

https://rm.coe.int/countries-with-encryption-legis...

Under the terrorist act I believe they can seize any electronic equipment without having to have any suspicion/cause

Isn't that like having to ask for the key to your house before they can search it? I imagine the penalty for withholding the key is not as bad as the penalty for some of the stuff being hidden.

grumbledoak said:

They are not demanding that you give them your front door key after a warrant is obtained. They have that power already. What they demand is for everyone to leave a spare key under the doormat for them to use when they feel like it.

Yeah, I get that, it was covered earlier in the thread. The situation now is that the Advanced Data Protection is not allowed in the UK.

I suppose the bad guys will find somewhere else to hide their nefarious stuff.

[ATG]

andyb28 said:

Thinking about this more. I don't think Apple have rolled over, instead I think they have done this because of the uneducated impossible requests for back doors.

Yup.

[Murph7355]

grumbledoak said:

AlexC1981 said:

I don't have a huge issue with this.

Then you don't understand it.

AlexC1981 said:

The police can get a warrant and search a house and all its contents if they suspect it contains bomb making instructions, child porn, contacts for obtaining drugs or illegal firearms etc. If this information is now being hidden in encrypted cloud services, why is it so wrong for that to also be searched if a warrant is obtained?

They are not demanding that you give them your front door key after a warrant is obtained. They have that power already. What they demand is for everyone to leave a spare key under the doormat for them to use when they feel like it.

I'm not sure it's as simple as someone "not understanding it". They simply disagree with your view

A spare key under a mat isn't really required for the physical world as locks can be picked and doors smashed in if the alleged criminal doesn't cooperate.

That is not the same with bit heavy encryption (as you know, because you understand it). Sure, they can ask Mr Alleged Criminal for his key and I'm sure they will all cooperate and not one will say "what key", "sorry, my hard disk failed and it was lost" or "the dog licked it".

I understand it. I have no issue with it because I'd rather govt agencies had the ability to intercept and stop the very worst of the internet than not be able to.

Apple couldn't give a monkeys. It's all gravy to them. They've taken the simplest path and that is up to them.

Will it materially stop the very worst of the internet. Unlikely. But just because you cannot stop 100%, doesn't mean you should not try to stop 99%, 98%, 90% etc IMO. Remember, not "not understanding", just having a different opinion.