C-Class rear light - melting issue.
Discussion
Some owners worldwide of 09-10 C-Class report a rear bulb light fail error (but no actual bulb fail). Some have reported a burning smell of melting plastic! My indy dealer tells me it's well known - one earth pin/cable that's too thin to take the load on the relatively cheap bulb holder card and that MB has updated the bulb carrier at least 6 times (they even showed me the part numbers and date changes). On inspection its clear - the pin is blackened...
...MB however, say they've never heard of the issue!
Anyone heard of this?
...MB however, say they've never heard of the issue!
Anyone heard of this?
Nope, haven't heard of it. But as you say it appears as if it is an issue, although one that apparently can be fixed easily and cheaply: http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/448506-tail...
rassi said:
Nope, haven't heard of it. But as you say it appears as if it is an issue, although one that apparently can be fixed easily and cheaply: http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/448506-tail...
Thanks, I saw that. Main dealer wants £300 as its not just the £12 bulb holder cards but also the multi-pin connected that needs re-soldering wire-by-wire!Gotta love MB MK customer service - they say they've never heard of the issue yet on an initial 5 minute web trawl I see many reports worldwide and that dealers are aware!
Resurrecting this as still an open issue. This has been reported in the US, Belgium and the UK to name a few. MB UK say they don't know of it (the US regulator knows about it, so they didn't tell MB US (and they didn't in turn tell MB Germany), right!) and, in my case, won't honour a 100% contribution. Yes, it is a simple job and the parts are c. £30 but the cost goes up as the plug connectors all need re-soldering.
Check out these reports and what owners have said - amazing!...
“Have had the same problem with mine; the earth is common to all circuits and is a stupid little wire that uses the same size of connector as the others. As a result it heats up and eventually builds up crud that stops all the circuits working, including the fall-back circuits. A very dangerous piece of poor design by MB!”
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130715/OEM11/130...
DETROIT (Reuters) -- U.S. safety regulators have opened a probe of an estimated 218,000 Mercedes C-class sedans after receiving consumer complaints claiming a failure of rear turn signals and brake lights. The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened a preliminary evaluation of the luxury cars from model years 2008 and 2009 after receiving 21 complaints from U.S. consumers.
The reports typically said the failure is with the lamp connector, with many indicating burnt or melted electrical components, according to NHTSA documents. In multiple instances, consumers have reported smelling smoke and seeing burn marks in the trunks of the cars, with one reporting small flames emanating from the rear lamp connector, NHTSA said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/flaming-hot-benz-...
“In another case, from June of 2012, a C-Class owner told NHTSA that the right rear tail light wiring harness caught fire and melted.”
IMHO, an issue like this should come outside of age, mileage and even goodwill gestures and no owner should be asked to pay for poorly designed parts especially on a 3 ½ year old vehicle – whether luxury or not.
Does anyone has experience of this particular issue or similar treatment via other manufacturers?
Latest:
FFS, just found this from 24th December just gone…
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/feds-expa...
Investigators say the problem appears to be worsening as the vehicles get older. A Mercedes spokesman said the company is cooperating with the investigation.
... and yet MB UK do not know of this issue.
Check out these reports and what owners have said - amazing!...
“Have had the same problem with mine; the earth is common to all circuits and is a stupid little wire that uses the same size of connector as the others. As a result it heats up and eventually builds up crud that stops all the circuits working, including the fall-back circuits. A very dangerous piece of poor design by MB!”
http://www.autonews.com/article/20130715/OEM11/130...
DETROIT (Reuters) -- U.S. safety regulators have opened a probe of an estimated 218,000 Mercedes C-class sedans after receiving consumer complaints claiming a failure of rear turn signals and brake lights. The U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened a preliminary evaluation of the luxury cars from model years 2008 and 2009 after receiving 21 complaints from U.S. consumers.
The reports typically said the failure is with the lamp connector, with many indicating burnt or melted electrical components, according to NHTSA documents. In multiple instances, consumers have reported smelling smoke and seeing burn marks in the trunks of the cars, with one reporting small flames emanating from the rear lamp connector, NHTSA said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/flaming-hot-benz-...
“In another case, from June of 2012, a C-Class owner told NHTSA that the right rear tail light wiring harness caught fire and melted.”
IMHO, an issue like this should come outside of age, mileage and even goodwill gestures and no owner should be asked to pay for poorly designed parts especially on a 3 ½ year old vehicle – whether luxury or not.
Does anyone has experience of this particular issue or similar treatment via other manufacturers?
Latest:
FFS, just found this from 24th December just gone…
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/feds-expa...
Investigators say the problem appears to be worsening as the vehicles get older. A Mercedes spokesman said the company is cooperating with the investigation.
... and yet MB UK do not know of this issue.
Edited by AMG Merc on Monday 6th January 18:09
OK think i need to jump in here from a MB dealer point of view,
I do know of this issue, as i have seen it in our dealership, (vehicle was under warranty so was covered)
But just because 1: other Merc dealers abroad 2:lots of people on forums.
know about this, it doesnt mean it's a known fault.
For Mercedes to recognis a known fault, there are few things that have to be brought to light, (wont go into them)
once all the criteria has been met, they will issue a Re-call / Service measure to rectify the issue/problem.
Now granted a few/lots of you may have this problem before Merc release a Recall/service measure.
But if your vehicle is undr warranty then you should be fine.
(now please don't abuse me, just cause i work for Merc lol)
I do know of this issue, as i have seen it in our dealership, (vehicle was under warranty so was covered)
But just because 1: other Merc dealers abroad 2:lots of people on forums.
know about this, it doesnt mean it's a known fault.
For Mercedes to recognis a known fault, there are few things that have to be brought to light, (wont go into them)
once all the criteria has been met, they will issue a Re-call / Service measure to rectify the issue/problem.
Now granted a few/lots of you may have this problem before Merc release a Recall/service measure.
But if your vehicle is undr warranty then you should be fine.
(now please don't abuse me, just cause i work for Merc lol)
magnum555 said:
I've had this exact same problem, like you mention its the earth wire that's too thin to take the load.
That's bad - worse than mine. Replaced today - bulbholder sockets, pins and bulbs themselves blackedned and starting to melt. Parts (bulbholder panels) £4 each but good old Merc - they come with different connectors so 1.5 hours labour to complete.
Hi Murray, thanks for joining in and no worries - it isn't your dealership!
Let me be clear, my beef isn't with the dealership (although they need constant pushing and don't seem to care much - until it comes to customer satisfaction survey time that is!) it is with MB. They say they don't know of this issue - billox! Read some of the press articles - it's been going on for over three years and is is now almost going to a full recall. Even a junior social media marketer sitting in a corner at Milton Keynes MB towers (let alone Germany) would have monitored, and reported on, this negative and potentially damaging messaging! This is "brand management 101" as the septics say. They know
Oh, and in warranty or not, I'd say this case warrants action either way.
Let me be clear, my beef isn't with the dealership (although they need constant pushing and don't seem to care much - until it comes to customer satisfaction survey time that is!) it is with MB. They say they don't know of this issue - billox! Read some of the press articles - it's been going on for over three years and is is now almost going to a full recall. Even a junior social media marketer sitting in a corner at Milton Keynes MB towers (let alone Germany) would have monitored, and reported on, this negative and potentially damaging messaging! This is "brand management 101" as the septics say. They know
Oh, and in warranty or not, I'd say this case warrants action either way.
MURRAY007 said:
OK think i need to jump in here from a MB dealer point of view,
I do know of this issue, as i have seen it in our dealership, (vehicle was under warranty so was covered)
But just because 1: other Merc dealers abroad 2:lots of people on forums.
know about this, it doesnt mean it's a known fault.
For Mercedes to recognis a known fault, there are few things that have to be brought to light, (wont go into them)
once all the criteria has been met, they will issue a Re-call / Service measure to rectify the issue/problem.
Now granted a few/lots of you may have this problem before Merc release a Recall/service measure.
But if your vehicle is undr warranty then you should be fine.
(now please don't abuse me, just cause i work for Merc lol)
But just because Mercedes have their own, secret, definition of 'known' doesn't mean it isn't a known fault, which to anyone with a bit of grey matter, it surely is. There's a fault, and lots of people know about it.I do know of this issue, as i have seen it in our dealership, (vehicle was under warranty so was covered)
But just because 1: other Merc dealers abroad 2:lots of people on forums.
know about this, it doesnt mean it's a known fault.
For Mercedes to recognis a known fault, there are few things that have to be brought to light, (wont go into them)
once all the criteria has been met, they will issue a Re-call / Service measure to rectify the issue/problem.
Now granted a few/lots of you may have this problem before Merc release a Recall/service measure.
But if your vehicle is undr warranty then you should be fine.
(now please don't abuse me, just cause i work for Merc lol)
Stop hiding behind semantics.
REALIST123 said:
MURRAY007 said:
OK think i need to jump in here from a MB dealer point of view,
I do know of this issue, as i have seen it in our dealership, (vehicle was under warranty so was covered)
But just because 1: other Merc dealers abroad 2:lots of people on forums.
know about this, it doesnt mean it's a known fault.
For Mercedes to recognis a known fault, there are few things that have to be brought to light, (wont go into them)
once all the criteria has been met, they will issue a Re-call / Service measure to rectify the issue/problem.
Now granted a few/lots of you may have this problem before Merc release a Recall/service measure.
But if your vehicle is undr warranty then you should be fine.
(now please don't abuse me, just cause i work for Merc lol)
But just because Mercedes have their own, secret, definition of 'known' doesn't mean it isn't a known fault, which to anyone with a bit of grey matter, it surely is. There's a fault, and lots of people know about it.I do know of this issue, as i have seen it in our dealership, (vehicle was under warranty so was covered)
But just because 1: other Merc dealers abroad 2:lots of people on forums.
know about this, it doesnt mean it's a known fault.
For Mercedes to recognis a known fault, there are few things that have to be brought to light, (wont go into them)
once all the criteria has been met, they will issue a Re-call / Service measure to rectify the issue/problem.
Now granted a few/lots of you may have this problem before Merc release a Recall/service measure.
But if your vehicle is undr warranty then you should be fine.
(now please don't abuse me, just cause i work for Merc lol)
Stop hiding behind semantics.
if a car maker sells 100,000 vehicle's and only 1,000 people report a fault, (they might think its a known fault) but the car maker is thinking thats only 1% of the total sold vehicle's.
(the above is an example, not what Merc do)
Also Merc have to provide a fix that will last for the rest of the cars life, not just a quick fix. (will the newer parts hold up without catching fire etc....)
Don't get me wrong, i am on your side.
MURRAY007 said:
REALIST123 said:
MURRAY007 said:
OK think i need to jump in here from a MB dealer point of view,
I do know of this issue, as i have seen it in our dealership, (vehicle was under warranty so was covered)
But just because 1: other Merc dealers abroad 2:lots of people on forums.
know about this, it doesnt mean it's a known fault.
For Mercedes to recognis a known fault, there are few things that have to be brought to light, (wont go into them)
once all the criteria has been met, they will issue a Re-call / Service measure to rectify the issue/problem.
Now granted a few/lots of you may have this problem before Merc release a Recall/service measure.
But if your vehicle is undr warranty then you should be fine.
(now please don't abuse me, just cause i work for Merc lol)
But just because Mercedes have their own, secret, definition of 'known' doesn't mean it isn't a known fault, which to anyone with a bit of grey matter, it surely is. There's a fault, and lots of people know about it.I do know of this issue, as i have seen it in our dealership, (vehicle was under warranty so was covered)
But just because 1: other Merc dealers abroad 2:lots of people on forums.
know about this, it doesnt mean it's a known fault.
For Mercedes to recognis a known fault, there are few things that have to be brought to light, (wont go into them)
once all the criteria has been met, they will issue a Re-call / Service measure to rectify the issue/problem.
Now granted a few/lots of you may have this problem before Merc release a Recall/service measure.
But if your vehicle is undr warranty then you should be fine.
(now please don't abuse me, just cause i work for Merc lol)
Stop hiding behind semantics.
if a car maker sells 100,000 vehicle's and only 1,000 people report a fault, (they might think its a known fault) but the car maker is thinking thats only 1% of the total sold vehicle's.
(the above is an example, not what Merc do)
Also Merc have to provide a fix that will last for the rest of the cars life, not just a quick fix. (will the newer parts hold up without catching fire etc....)
Don't get me wrong, i am on your side.
What you're saying implies that MB assess technical faults on a commercial basis only; if most of the parts will last the warranty period, let's say there ain't a problem. (Not that they're alone in this, but that doesn't make it right).
Whatever the statistics, insisting there is no problem, in the face of all the evidence, stinks.
Murray, don't feel got it mate. You're not to blame
FYI, my investigations have uncovered the fact that MB has redesigned the bulb carrier around 6 times now. A clear sign to me that they know there's a problem needing solving.
As posted previously, with this in mind, why did they give me such a hard time finally offering 80% of the fix costs. So I paid 20% for the privilege of owing one of their poor faulty designs.
FYI, my investigations have uncovered the fact that MB has redesigned the bulb carrier around 6 times now. A clear sign to me that they know there's a problem needing solving.
As posted previously, with this in mind, why did they give me such a hard time finally offering 80% of the fix costs. So I paid 20% for the privilege of owing one of their poor faulty designs.
Hi All,
I registered to this forum as I suffered from this problem and thought it would be good to explain how I got it fixed for free at a merc dealer on my 58 plate c320.
I first noticed a strange problem with my car when my parking sensors would randomly go off and I had a dimming of lights on my rear left side of the car. After a swap of the bulbs and trying to figure it out for a few days all my lights failed and I noticed when looking that the earth wire has broken up and then found this forum. Note my dash did not alert me that my lights were not working.
I called merc and said "I have the known earth wire fault". They said it would cost £99 to look at + parts and labour. As recommended in another post here I contact Vosa to see what they thought as its clear this is a common issue.
"Dear Mr XX,
With regards to your email.
We are sorry to hear that you are experiencing issues with your vehicle.
Before I deal with your concern, it maybe helpful if I explain the role of
DVSA in regards to investigating vehicle safety defects. DVSA
investigates, in conjunction with the relevant producer, incidences whereby
failure of a vehicle or its component systems are alleged to be
attributable to design or construction deficiencies. In addition DVSA is
responsible for the supervision and monitoring of the UK Recall Scheme as
it applies in the automotive sector.
This work is carried out under the terms of a Code of Practice, which is an
agreement between the Department for Transport and the Trade Associations
representing vehicle and component producers, and is supported by the
General Product Safety Regulations 2005.
A ‘safety defect’ is defined in the Code as "A safety related defect is a
failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the
safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may
pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others. This defect
will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the
United Kingdom". In addition, before we can require a manufacturer/producer
to instigate a safety recall, there has to be a significant risk of serious
injury or death.
We are aware of the issue with the Mercedes Benz C Class and have
previously investigated it. We have concluded that the connection block
fails as a result of high resistance in the connections which is due
electrochemical corrosion or liming, this issue is accelerated by the use
of dissimilar metals. However, the driver is made aware of the issue on
the vehicles instrument panel, other lights on the vehicle provide notice
to other road users of the vehicles location. Additionally, MB have stated
that there is not a risk of fire and they are taking a pro-active action
with reports of this issue.
We would therefore suggest that you contact Mercedes Benz Customer Service.
Should you wish to discuss anything, please do not hesitate to contact me
on telephone number below.
Your sincerely"
I took this email to Merc when I dropped my car off and within a few hours got a call saying all work will be FOC and I collected the car the next day. Ill take a pick of the job sheet and add it tomorrow.
I registered to this forum as I suffered from this problem and thought it would be good to explain how I got it fixed for free at a merc dealer on my 58 plate c320.
I first noticed a strange problem with my car when my parking sensors would randomly go off and I had a dimming of lights on my rear left side of the car. After a swap of the bulbs and trying to figure it out for a few days all my lights failed and I noticed when looking that the earth wire has broken up and then found this forum. Note my dash did not alert me that my lights were not working.
I called merc and said "I have the known earth wire fault". They said it would cost £99 to look at + parts and labour. As recommended in another post here I contact Vosa to see what they thought as its clear this is a common issue.
"Dear Mr XX,
With regards to your email.
We are sorry to hear that you are experiencing issues with your vehicle.
Before I deal with your concern, it maybe helpful if I explain the role of
DVSA in regards to investigating vehicle safety defects. DVSA
investigates, in conjunction with the relevant producer, incidences whereby
failure of a vehicle or its component systems are alleged to be
attributable to design or construction deficiencies. In addition DVSA is
responsible for the supervision and monitoring of the UK Recall Scheme as
it applies in the automotive sector.
This work is carried out under the terms of a Code of Practice, which is an
agreement between the Department for Transport and the Trade Associations
representing vehicle and component producers, and is supported by the
General Product Safety Regulations 2005.
A ‘safety defect’ is defined in the Code as "A safety related defect is a
failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the
safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may
pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others. This defect
will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the
United Kingdom". In addition, before we can require a manufacturer/producer
to instigate a safety recall, there has to be a significant risk of serious
injury or death.
We are aware of the issue with the Mercedes Benz C Class and have
previously investigated it. We have concluded that the connection block
fails as a result of high resistance in the connections which is due
electrochemical corrosion or liming, this issue is accelerated by the use
of dissimilar metals. However, the driver is made aware of the issue on
the vehicles instrument panel, other lights on the vehicle provide notice
to other road users of the vehicles location. Additionally, MB have stated
that there is not a risk of fire and they are taking a pro-active action
with reports of this issue.
We would therefore suggest that you contact Mercedes Benz Customer Service.
Should you wish to discuss anything, please do not hesitate to contact me
on telephone number below.
Your sincerely"
I took this email to Merc when I dropped my car off and within a few hours got a call saying all work will be FOC and I collected the car the next day. Ill take a pick of the job sheet and add it tomorrow.
Edited by c320derby on Wednesday 10th December 14:30
Dave, I don't understand DVSA's response. Merc has admitted the issue, it should have been a no-brainer (unless your car isn't one of these?).
BTW, when I heard of Merc's admittance I asked for my 20% contribution back - and got it
Here's a news item and MB's (US) press release - 284,000 cars here alone so how could UK gove not know?! There's loads concerning other countries across the web
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/29/mercedes-recall...
Statement From Mercedes-Benz
We are working very together with our NHTSA colleagues on this topic. Daimler AG has become aware through its worldwide product observation that on some model year 2008-2011 C-Class vehicles (204 platform*), the contact between tail lamp bulb carrier and tail lamp connector has deteriorated. The contact deterioration may lead from dimmed tail lamps to, in the worst case, a loss of tail lamp functions. In this case, the driver will immediately be informed by dedicated warning messages in the instrument cluster.
RECALL Subject : Tail Lamp Dimming or Failure
Report Receipt Date: APR 11, 2014
NHTSA Campaign Number: 14V177000
Component(s):
Potential Number of Units Affected: 252,867
Vehicle MakeModelModel Year(s)
MERCEDES BENZ C300 2008-2011 MERCEDES BENZ C350 2008-2011 MERCEDES BENZ C63 2008-2011
Manufacturer: Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC.
SUMMARY:
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC (Mercedes) is recalling certain model year 2008-2011 C300, C300 4Matic, C350, and C63 AMG vehicles manufactured January 26, 2007, through July 13, 2011. In the affected vehicles, a poor electrical ground connection may result in the dimming or failure of the tail lights.
CONSEQUENCE:
Dimming or failure of the tail lights reduces the ability to warn other motorists of the driver's intentions of stopping or turning, increasing the risk of a crash.
REMEDY:
Mercedes will notify owners, and dealers will replace the bulb holders if not previously updated and replace any corroded connectors, free of charge. Parts are not currently available. Owners will be sent an interim notification in June 2014. A second letter will be mailed when parts are available, currently expected to be in August or September 2014. Owners may contact Mercedes at 1-800-367-6372.
NOTES:
Owners may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to www.safercar.gov.
BTW, when I heard of Merc's admittance I asked for my 20% contribution back - and got it
Here's a news item and MB's (US) press release - 284,000 cars here alone so how could UK gove not know?! There's loads concerning other countries across the web
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/29/mercedes-recall...
Statement From Mercedes-Benz
We are working very together with our NHTSA colleagues on this topic. Daimler AG has become aware through its worldwide product observation that on some model year 2008-2011 C-Class vehicles (204 platform*), the contact between tail lamp bulb carrier and tail lamp connector has deteriorated. The contact deterioration may lead from dimmed tail lamps to, in the worst case, a loss of tail lamp functions. In this case, the driver will immediately be informed by dedicated warning messages in the instrument cluster.
RECALL Subject : Tail Lamp Dimming or Failure
Report Receipt Date: APR 11, 2014
NHTSA Campaign Number: 14V177000
Component(s):
Potential Number of Units Affected: 252,867
Vehicle MakeModelModel Year(s)
MERCEDES BENZ C300 2008-2011 MERCEDES BENZ C350 2008-2011 MERCEDES BENZ C63 2008-2011
Manufacturer: Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC.
SUMMARY:
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC (Mercedes) is recalling certain model year 2008-2011 C300, C300 4Matic, C350, and C63 AMG vehicles manufactured January 26, 2007, through July 13, 2011. In the affected vehicles, a poor electrical ground connection may result in the dimming or failure of the tail lights.
CONSEQUENCE:
Dimming or failure of the tail lights reduces the ability to warn other motorists of the driver's intentions of stopping or turning, increasing the risk of a crash.
REMEDY:
Mercedes will notify owners, and dealers will replace the bulb holders if not previously updated and replace any corroded connectors, free of charge. Parts are not currently available. Owners will be sent an interim notification in June 2014. A second letter will be mailed when parts are available, currently expected to be in August or September 2014. Owners may contact Mercedes at 1-800-367-6372.
NOTES:
Owners may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to www.safercar.gov.
AMG Merc said:
Some owners worldwide of 09-10 C-Class report a rear bulb light fail error (but no actual bulb fail). Some have reported a burning smell of melting plastic! My indy dealer tells me it's well known - one earth pin/cable that's too thin to take the load on the relatively cheap bulb holder card and that MB has updated the bulb carrier at least 6 times (they even showed me the part numbers and date changes). On inspection its clear - the pin is blackened...
...MB however, say they've never heard of the issue!
Anyone heard of this?
It's common. Our lights were changed out entirely for the facelift LED version at MB's cost during the warranty period. I'd give some push-back; it's a known defect in the wiring....MB however, say they've never heard of the issue!
Anyone heard of this?
This problem stems from the first 2007 w204 class as I have this car and suffered a complete earth burn out on one side of my rear lights requiring new pin assembly and new light cluster, the right one was blackened so not a new problem as MB might suggest. Now in 2014 the same problem persists so one has to wonder about MB quality control. The car was in its 4th year though before I noticed the problem. The last 4 years the car has never provided 12 months of motoring without a problem such as these burnt out lights, voxygen sensor, new horn, steering lock, throttle module, another oxygen sensor, indicator module led
Gassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff