Discussion
Hi Guys
I've read some of the guides online but thought Id ask here if anyone can offer advice on W140's?
I have a lease car that's due up in 6 months and I'm tempted to look into buying one over the next few months, sort any niggles out if needed, then use once the other car goes back. I'm just about to start my own business so will be mainly working from home and I would love to start owning some older and more interesting metal.
Are there any engines to avoid or any to go for etc? For example, ive seen some tidy S280's but are these to be avoided for any reason?
Any advice appreciated
I've read some of the guides online but thought Id ask here if anyone can offer advice on W140's?
I have a lease car that's due up in 6 months and I'm tempted to look into buying one over the next few months, sort any niggles out if needed, then use once the other car goes back. I'm just about to start my own business so will be mainly working from home and I would love to start owning some older and more interesting metal.
Are there any engines to avoid or any to go for etc? For example, ive seen some tidy S280's but are these to be avoided for any reason?
Any advice appreciated
Firstly, don't forget that any W140 is a hugely complex car that will be at least 16 years old. As always with anything other than new or nearly new, buy on condition, not spec, age or model. The S280 is a little underpowered to be honest, so maybe looking at the 320/420/500 would be better. Look for evidence of regular, good quality servicing, check that everything works as it should. If it has air suspension, check that works well. Listen for clinks/knocks/rattles from the drivetrain and suspension and think about the age and condition of tyres, which won't be cheap to replace.
This was a very well put together car when new so there are plenty of good ones out there. Be picky and you'll soon turn up a lovely car
This was a very well put together car when new so there are plenty of good ones out there. Be picky and you'll soon turn up a lovely car
A good friend has run a 1996 S420 as his daily for the last seven years.
It has been a very reliable car, certainly as reliable as a 124. Parts are more expensive but it does not seem to be fragile.
The thing is, though, he and I are always on the look out for good ones. And they just don't exist. There are a few very expensive apparently smart cars at the specialist dealers, but whenever I have gone to view such cars I have come away disappointed. Sure, they're better than the run of the mill cars, but not that much better. As for the run of the mill cars, they are nearly always sadly neglected.
The S600 engine can be expensive to repair if it goes wrong. The only thing that really goes on these are the throttle bodies. But the S600 also tends to come with lots of other nicknacks which can break and which are relatively costly to fix. Big stuff like ADS suspension or little stuff like electric sun blinds. I think if budget is any kind of real concern, I would stay away from the S600.
Otherwise, buy on condition and history. The S280 and S320 are adequate. The S420 is strong but not scorching. The S500 is fast enough. The S600 even today is a properly fast car, especially above the legal limit. The S420 is the most economical, believe it or not, but even that is pretty horrific on fuel: 12mpg around town, maybe 20mpg in mixed driving, 22mpg on a run.
They rust, especially around the wheel arches and rear light apertures. Gadgets break and lazy owners don't fix them. The suspension takes a pounding and depends upon healthy bushings for correct operation. It's not that expensive to overhaul and probably needs doing. Engine and transmission mounts probably need doing on most cars by now. Likewise shocks and rear subframe mounts. The front subframe mounts are a more involved job but don't seem to need doing so often. Air con always is broken: usually a new condenser is required. Radiators and fan clutches will be getting tired by now.
My advice to anyone thinking of running an old Merc as a daily is that it won't work for you unless you enjoy diagnosing and resolving the minor problems that inevitably will come up. You have to make that part of the hobby. I quite enjoy it: fixing cars is so different from my day job and identifying parts at good prices appeals to the OCD side of my personality. But if you have no interest in fixing problems, you'll hate running an old car. I do 55,000miles a year in old Mercs, so it can be done.
It has been a very reliable car, certainly as reliable as a 124. Parts are more expensive but it does not seem to be fragile.
The thing is, though, he and I are always on the look out for good ones. And they just don't exist. There are a few very expensive apparently smart cars at the specialist dealers, but whenever I have gone to view such cars I have come away disappointed. Sure, they're better than the run of the mill cars, but not that much better. As for the run of the mill cars, they are nearly always sadly neglected.
The S600 engine can be expensive to repair if it goes wrong. The only thing that really goes on these are the throttle bodies. But the S600 also tends to come with lots of other nicknacks which can break and which are relatively costly to fix. Big stuff like ADS suspension or little stuff like electric sun blinds. I think if budget is any kind of real concern, I would stay away from the S600.
Otherwise, buy on condition and history. The S280 and S320 are adequate. The S420 is strong but not scorching. The S500 is fast enough. The S600 even today is a properly fast car, especially above the legal limit. The S420 is the most economical, believe it or not, but even that is pretty horrific on fuel: 12mpg around town, maybe 20mpg in mixed driving, 22mpg on a run.
They rust, especially around the wheel arches and rear light apertures. Gadgets break and lazy owners don't fix them. The suspension takes a pounding and depends upon healthy bushings for correct operation. It's not that expensive to overhaul and probably needs doing. Engine and transmission mounts probably need doing on most cars by now. Likewise shocks and rear subframe mounts. The front subframe mounts are a more involved job but don't seem to need doing so often. Air con always is broken: usually a new condenser is required. Radiators and fan clutches will be getting tired by now.
My advice to anyone thinking of running an old Merc as a daily is that it won't work for you unless you enjoy diagnosing and resolving the minor problems that inevitably will come up. You have to make that part of the hobby. I quite enjoy it: fixing cars is so different from my day job and identifying parts at good prices appeals to the OCD side of my personality. But if you have no interest in fixing problems, you'll hate running an old car. I do 55,000miles a year in old Mercs, so it can be done.
Axeboy said:
Hi Guys
I've read some of the guides online but thought Id ask here if anyone can offer advice on W140's?
I have a lease car that's due up in 6 months and I'm tempted to look into buying one over the next few months, sort any niggles out if needed, then use once the other car goes back. I'm just about to start my own business so will be mainly working from home and I would love to start owning some older and more interesting metal.
Are there any engines to avoid or any to go for etc? For example, ive seen some tidy S280's but are these to be avoided for any reason?
Any advice appreciated
I owned three W140s during the late nineties and early noughties and completed about 150,000 miles in them. In order they were an S320 LWB, an S280 and finally an S500 LWB. They were my daily drivers and I loved all of them even the S280 which made a lovely noise under hard acceleration. None of them ever let me down other than a flat battery at an airport when the alarm drained it. Having said that they were serviced by my Mercedes independent specialist every 9,000 miles in accordance with the recommended schedules using original Mercedes partsI've read some of the guides online but thought Id ask here if anyone can offer advice on W140's?
I have a lease car that's due up in 6 months and I'm tempted to look into buying one over the next few months, sort any niggles out if needed, then use once the other car goes back. I'm just about to start my own business so will be mainly working from home and I would love to start owning some older and more interesting metal.
Are there any engines to avoid or any to go for etc? For example, ive seen some tidy S280's but are these to be avoided for any reason?
Any advice appreciated
These are heavy cars and suspension springs can and do break and ball joints go as well. The ride is sublime but quality tyres are a necessity but last well when driven normally. Four and five speed auto-boxes are long-living and reliable but should be serviced on schedule.
The inline sixes all need a new cylinder head gasket at some point but it is a one -off fix.
Double glazed windows are heavy and sometimes window motors fail as do the soft closing doors and boot. This could be a simple fuse fix or something more expensive.
Rust in the front wheel arches is the norm rather than the exception but you can get pattern replacements or find them in breakers yards. It is less common in the rear wheel-arches but does occur.
Very early W140s were better built using superior materials but as with the R129 SL cost cutting measures were implemented over the production run whilst at the same time upgrades to equipment and safety measures were introduced. '97 cars onwards are probably the pick of the bunch.
I loved all three of mine but the S500 with the M119 was the pick. It suited the nature of the car. Quiet, effortless and powerful and frankly not really that much difference in fuel economy compared to the sixes.
They were all beautifully engineered cars but as has been pointed out already finding a good one today is difficult. They were at the cross-over point when Daimler-Benz moved from mechanical straightforwardness to sophisticated electronic systems regulated by central processors and servicing within the main dealerships was expensive.
If these cars are not serviced regularly and properly then the backlog of work may never be addressed.
Service history and condition is far more important than mileage. These cars can take the mileage if looked after.
Just a thought, given the scarcity of good W140s have you considered a C140, the coupe version of the W140? Same sort of issues but more of them around and some in good condition.
Thanks, yep, I have considered the coupe but I've just always been a saloon man
On my search for a W140 I found a really nice W124 locally, a 300E for less than a grand. Its no S class but it just popped up and seems like a great deal (as much as I can tell anyway).
https://www.gumtree.com/p/mercedes-benz/mercedes-b...
Still prefer a W140 but hey, I could have both
On my search for a W140 I found a really nice W124 locally, a 300E for less than a grand. Its no S class but it just popped up and seems like a great deal (as much as I can tell anyway).
https://www.gumtree.com/p/mercedes-benz/mercedes-b...
Still prefer a W140 but hey, I could have both
Axeboy said:
Thanks, yep, I have considered the coupe but I've just always been a saloon man
On my search for a W140 I found a really nice W124 locally, a 300E for less than a grand. Its no S class but it just popped up and seems like a great deal (as much as I can tell anyway).
https://www.gumtree.com/p/mercedes-benz/mercedes-b...
Still prefer a W140 but hey, I could have both
W124s are brilliant cars. Much less complicated than W140s but in reality three-quarter S classes and the 300E has the wonderful M103 straight six three litre 12v engine. It together with the M119 are my favourite Mercedes engines. There are still plenty of W124s about but the pre-facelift cars like the 1988 in the gumtree advert are the best ones. Try Mark Taylor of MTSV he often has good quality W124s for sale. Good luck with your search.On my search for a W140 I found a really nice W124 locally, a 300E for less than a grand. Its no S class but it just popped up and seems like a great deal (as much as I can tell anyway).
https://www.gumtree.com/p/mercedes-benz/mercedes-b...
Still prefer a W140 but hey, I could have both
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