How do people put up with main dealers.

How do people put up with main dealers.

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Discussion

steve-V8s

Original Poster:

2,899 posts

247 months

Tuesday 10th July 2018
quotequote all
I want a price guide for some work.

The local dealer won't connect you to someone who knows the answer, they connect you to someone who interrogates you about all sorts of stuff which is plainly just to update their database, then say someone will get back to you, which they don't. The next closest dealer answers and then plays you a recorded message, which I have listened to for 15 mins, twice. The local Indy gave me an answer in less than 3 mins, including looking up the cost of the part.

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Tuesday 10th July 2018
quotequote all
You're not supposed to ask awkward questions, like "how much does XXX cost"? Car should be on a service plan so there's nothing to discuss.

Mine used to be very good but it became increasingly difficult to find someone who was bothered. Then last time they just referred me to MyService. Car goes to an indie now.

Dealers who use call-centres for bookings must lose a lot of non-service work. But I guess they're not bothered, most seem flat out anyway.

PositronicRay

26,957 posts

182 months

Saturday 14th July 2018
quotequote all
They do make it hard work.

I did the local MB to phone me back once. It took him 10 days and referred to me as "a lead"

As in
" I'm phoning all my leads back, you enquired regarding price/availability of a water pump?"

I'm guessing he'd run out of candy crush to play.

If you can find an Indy or a dealer that's part of a small group that seems to help. My wife runs a Hyundai. 3 dealers within 15 miles, 2 are part of bigger groups, dealing with them is painful. The third is like a breath of fresh air, but they're small, only 2 sites one Hyundai and one Nissan.



ruhall

506 posts

145 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
It's funny really, the more they major on customer-service, ie surveys, follow up calls, fancy coffee etc, the worse the actual service is, in my experience.

As a generalisation, I've found the old family-owned dealers provided superb service, you could talk to somebody that actually knew what they're talking about, they weren't driven by computer menus and options and they actually seemed to genuinely value customers, irrespective of whether you bought a new car every 12 months or 12 years. You weren't continually asked (or asked 'are you aware') to sign up for some new monthly payment option, whether that be a new car, a service plan or some other money-grabbing scheme.

Unfortunately, the drive for corporate standards and image means that most, if not all, of the old garages are long gone and most are now part of big groups.

Last time I had mine serviced I came home spitting feathers, after having to 'discuss' my service requirements with my dedicated service manager who kept reminding me they could only do what the computer print out said. I was beginning to wonder whether they thought they owned the car and not me (and no, it wasn't on a PCP etc). Eventually, they did what I asked, but it was hard work. Strangely, I didn't receive any follow-up calls or surveys that time.

Two friends have also recently made similar comments, one of whom has had new MBs for many years and, until recently, wouldn't have a bad word said against the dealer. Now he just thinks he must be old.

No doubt there are still dealers who do make you feel like a valued customer instead of just a means of achieving their targets but the way manufacturers have structured their sales network nowadays means choice is limited.

eta: typo

Edited by ruhall on Tuesday 17th July 14:55

PositronicRay

26,957 posts

182 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
ruhall said:
It's funny really, the more they major on customer-service, ie surveys, follow up calls, fancy coffee etc, the worse the actual service is, in my experience.

As a generalisation, I've found the old family-owned dealers provided superb service, you could talk to somebody that actually knew what they're talking about, they weren't driven by computer menus and options and they actually seemed to genuinely value customers, irresective of whether you bought a new car every 12 months or 12 years. You weren't continually asked (or asked 'are you aware') to sign up for some new monthly payment option, whether that be a new car, a service plan or some other money-grabbing scheme.

Unfortunately, the drive for corporate standards and image means that most, if not all, of the old garages are long gone and most are now part of big groups.

Last time I had mine serviced I came home spitting feathers, after having to 'discuss' my service requirements with my dedicated service manager who kept reminding me they could only do what the computer print out said. I was beginning to wonder whether they thought they owned the car and not me (and no, it wasn't on a PCP etc). Eventually, they did what I asked, but it was hard work. Strangely, I didn't receive any follow-up calls or surveys that time.

Two friends have also recently made similar comments, one of whom has had new MBs for many years and, until recently, wouldn't have a bad word said against the dealer. Now he just thinks he must be old.

No doubt there are still dealers who do make you feel like a valued customer instead of just a means of achieving their targets but the way manufacturers have structured their sales network nowadays means choice is limited.
Good service is about individuals, leadership and empowerment.

Customer service surveys beloved in the corporate world are fudged. The directors can sit around in the glow of mutual congratulation huddle. They'll claim their bonuses, maybe unaware of the frustration in the ranks, but mostly disinterested.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
ruhall said:
It's funny really, the more they major on customer-service, ie surveys, follow up calls, fancy coffee etc, the worse the actual service is, in my experience.

As a generalisation, I've found the old family-owned dealers provided superb service, you could talk to somebody that actually knew what they're talking about, they weren't driven by computer menus and options and they actually seemed to genuinely value customers, irresective of whether you bought a new car every 12 months or 12 years. You weren't continually asked (or asked 'are you aware') to sign up for some new monthly payment option, whether that be a new car, a service plan or some other money-grabbing scheme.

Unfortunately, the drive for corporate standards and image means that most, if not all, of the old garages are long gone and most are now part of big groups.

Last time I had mine serviced I came home spitting feathers, after having to 'discuss' my service requirements with my dedicated service manager who kept reminding me they could only do what the computer print out said. I was beginning to wonder whether they thought they owned the car and not me (and no, it wasn't on a PCP etc). Eventually, they did what I asked, but it was hard work. Strangely, I didn't receive any follow-up calls or surveys that time.

Two friends have also recently made similar comments, one of whom has had new MBs for many years and, until recently, wouldn't have a bad word said against the dealer. Now he just thinks he must be old.

No doubt there are still dealers who do make you feel like a valued customer instead of just a means of achieving their targets but the way manufacturers have structured their sales network nowadays means choice is limited.
Good service is about individuals, leadership and empowerment.

Customer service surveys beloved in the corporate world are fudged. The directors can sit around in the glow of mutual congratulation huddle. They'll claim their bonuses, maybe unaware of the frustration in the ranks, but mostly disinterested.
“The directors can sit around in the glow of mutual congratulation huddle.”

Not if they’re going off my response to their surveys! wink

I take exception to them wasting money on useless videos of someone walking around under the car pointing out the obvious, having to chat with a ‘Service Managers’ who are clearly clueless and them doing stuff that is very often not relevant whilst missing what is, and I tell them so.

I never get any follow up to my responses nor see any changes.

Mind you, IME, BMW and Jaguar are just as bad as MB. I took my months old Jag in for the battery to be tested after receiving a couple of ‘low battery’ warnings.

They had it all day, wanted to keep it overnight, and when I insisted on picking it up at 5, they were only testing the battery as I waited.

They had though, apparently, carried out a ‘full health check’ which showed nothin wrong and wasn’t needed or asked for. A week later I received the video showing me that the tyres, after 4000 miles, were still OK

What a waste of money and effort.

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
They had though, apparently, carried out a ‘full health check’ which showed nothin wrong and wasn’t needed or asked for. A week later I received the video showing me that the tyres, after 4000 miles, were still OK

What a waste of money and effort.
What's even worse is dealers, like the Honda one my daughter used, whose health check declared the car to be fine despite one of the brake pads acoustic indicators squealing when it was driven. Turns out they walk around the car on the ground, which isn't a good way of checking inner brake pads. Quite what they couldn't hear it either has never been explained.

Worst thing is my daughter thought the car was fine as the garage said so! I had to take it back myself. Oddly the service manager wasn't in and the GM at the other branch he looks after. Service Advisor I dealt with was completely hard-faced about it.

I do wonder about the customer satisfaction reports - I've heard people are reluctant to be negative in case the dealer falls out with them and that was certainly in my mind when I took up this case. The car is half-way through a 5yr service and warranty package so needs to go to a franchise dealer and there isn't another sensible alternative to our local one.

PositronicRay

26,957 posts

182 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
I do wonder about the customer satisfaction reports - I've heard people are reluctant to be negative in case the dealer falls out with them and that was certainly in my mind when I took up this case.
When CS reports become part bonus structure then it becomes personally important.

Manage people by numbers and the people will 'manage' the numbers.

This is why staff will provide 'guidance' of where you should pitch your score. In a case where a score could reduce the average, magically that person doesn't receive a survey. Even though you are told that individual CS surveys are confidential, they're not.

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
PositronicRay said:
This is why staff will provide 'guidance' of where you should pitch your score.
I think that's fair enough as most people won't realise how the surveys are assessed. On one of the UK Mercedes forums there's a story from a long standing member who bought a new car and the whole thing worked averagely. So that's how he did the CS survey.

He then got a call from the dealership general manager asking why he shouldn't sack the sales-guy for one of the worst reports they'd ever had!

I've submitted some harsh but fair ones and only once had a response - oddly, as I mentioned them earlier, it was from a Honda dealer, but it was little independent place who used to have the franchise, not the new glass palace dealer who Honda replaced them with.

The other thing I've tried to do, very subtly, is to respond to pleas imploring me to let the dealer know if I'm not 100% satisfied before doing the survey, is to lean on that to get things sorted. They've always managed to give me the impression they couldn't give a toss.

PositronicRay

26,957 posts

182 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
I think that's fair enough as most people won't realise how the surveys are assessed. On one of the UK Mercedes forums there's a story from a long standing member who bought a new car and the whole thing worked averagely. So that's how he did the CS survey.

He then got a call from the dealership general manager asking why he shouldn't sack the sales-guy for one of the worst reports they'd ever had!

.
Doesn't this tell you everything you need to know. Manage the surveys and you don't have to bother about managing CS.

The manufactures will say "it's about improving experience, the surveys aren't used as tool to beat staff with" clearly not true.

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
The last time I tried to buy a new MB I took in my 2 year old BMW 330i convertible. The salesman went over it very carefully but didn’t come back with a deal. I chased him, he apologised and said he had been busy on a course and would come back with figures the following day . . . . . . .

Seriously how do they do any business???

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
bad company said:
The last time I tried to buy a new MB I took in my 2 year old BMW 330i convertible. The salesman went over it very carefully but didn’t come back with a deal. I chased him, he apologised and said he had been busy on a course and would come back with figures the following day . . . . . . .

Seriously how do they do any business???
Did you say it would be a cash deal...?

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
bad company said:
The last time I tried to buy a new MB I took in my 2 year old BMW 330i convertible. The salesman went over it very carefully but didn’t come back with a deal. I chased him, he apologised and said he had been busy on a course and would come back with figures the following day . . . . . . .

Seriously how do they do any business???
Did you say it would be a cash deal...?
No. I asked for a cash and pcp quote. The outgoing car was on pcp so he knew that was my preference.

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
bad company said:
No. I asked for a cash and pcp quote. The outgoing car was on pcp so he knew that was my preference.
Oh. That is odd then.

PositronicRay

26,957 posts

182 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
bad company said:
The last time I tried to buy a new MB I took in my 2 year old BMW 330i convertible. The salesman went over it very carefully but didn’t come back with a deal. I chased him, he apologised and said he had been busy on a course and would come back with figures the following day . . . . . . .

Seriously how do they do any business???
It's because now it's all about process.


Olden times.

Visit dealership, enq re car, bit of qualification, some haggling, strike deal (or not) offer addons jobs a good un.


Now

Visit dealership enq re car, qualification, takes deal to sales manger, then group buyer (to value PX) then business manager, offer sheet produced.


It only takes, moody sales manager, moody business manager, bit of paper lost/forgotten, pretty girl walking passed, cold, candy crush, mate phoning re last nights pissup, forgotten PTA meeting, Course (x4), bking, meeting or a whole myriad of other reasons.

You now see how difficult it is for the salesman.

It's done in the name of de-skilling and corporate control, heaven knows how anything ever gets done!


Another example

John orders new car.

Olden days. Good morning John would you like some mudflaps? Yes please. Fred when you prep johns car can you fit some mudflaps please.

Now

Good morning John would you like some mudflaps? Yes please.
Order raised, goes to parts dept. for costing, goes to SM for authorisation, goes to admin, (then electronically) goes to service dept, back to parts dept, back to service dept then to techie.


When you discover John's mudflaps haven't been fitted have you any idea how long it takes to track down this order?




mk1coopers

1,199 posts

151 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
I take my MB on a hour and a half drive to get it serviced as the dealer near us has been less than helpful, they have lost out on 3 sales in 3 years (as they never bothered to phone back), so the cars go back to the MB dealer we bought them from, who do provide a good service and they get good results on their surveys as they deserve them.

When it comes to changing the current one I will start with this same dealer and if they carry on with the same level of service they will probably get another sale (as at the moment there's not much out there that interests me from the other big brands)

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
PositronicRay said:
This is why staff will provide 'guidance' of where you should pitch your score.
I think that's fair enough as most people won't realise how the surveys are assessed. On one of the UK Mercedes forums there's a story from a long standing member who bought a new car and the whole thing worked averagely. So that's how he did the CS survey.

He then got a call from the dealership general manager asking why he shouldn't sack the sales-guy for one of the worst reports they'd ever had!
Don’t see anything wrong with that except why ask the customer? Just fire the guy if he’s that bad.

My last experience trying to buy a BMW to replace my 4yo 530 from the same dealer was so bad that I ended up in a Jaguar.

I completed my subsequent survey honestly, factually and fully. It would not bother me in the slightest if it cost the sales rep his job. He’d have deserved it.

Sheepshanks

32,530 posts

118 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
REALIST123 said:
Don’t see anything wrong with that except why ask the customer? Just fire the guy if he’s that bad.
That's the point though - he wasn't bad, it was just a regular deal.

What the customer didn't realise is that manufacturers expect everything as 'completely satisfied' unless there's some specific reason to mark down.

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Saturday 21st July 2018
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
That's the point though - he wasn't bad, it was just a regular deal.

What the customer didn't realise is that manufacturers expect everything as 'completely satisfied' unless there's some specific reason to mark down.
I got the telephone survey once when I bought new Boxster. One of the questions was “did the salesman fully explain the controls “. I answered no need as I had part exchanged another Boxster. Apparently the salesman was marked down for that.

PositronicRay

26,957 posts

182 months

Saturday 21st July 2018
quotequote all
bad company said:
Sheepshanks said:
That's the point though - he wasn't bad, it was just a regular deal.

What the customer didn't realise is that manufacturers expect everything as 'completely satisfied' unless there's some specific reason to mark down.
I got the telephone survey once when I bought new Boxster. One of the questions was “did the salesman fully explain the controls “. I answered no need as I had part exchanged another Boxster. Apparently the salesman was marked down for that.
This is the crap thing, it's about managing surveys rather than managing customer service.
Using this methodology we increased a 75% score to a 95% score, with no other changes to service levels. It all comes from the accountants mantra "you can't manage what you can't measure" maybe true, but you can manage the measurement.