200k+ 2015 E class what's not to like?

200k+ 2015 E class what's not to like?

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CX53

2,964 posts

109 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
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st4 said:
It's not a horrible diesel but a sublime 2.5 V6 direct injection petrol. The GS 250 is a really good car and I still get 40mpg from it, over actually and nearly 50mpg is possible. Nothing goes wrong with the later V6's

As diesels the 2.2 has head gasket problems but no issues with timing gear like BMW - although I have an 2.0 D4D Rav 4 and the engine is faultless - more so than the 3 V6 OM642 (which the 350cdi is) engined cars I owned. The Lexus diesel is probably a safer bet than a German diesel. It's unreliable compared to the petrol but better than any German engine.

A C350cdi will be faster than an IS250 or GS250 but no more economical and a lot less reliable. You'll also enjoy working the engine and the roar is fantastic - there's no joy in the OM642- it's a powerplant, not an engine. It's a reminder of how cars should be and makes the car rewarding to drive when pressing on and refined in a way no diesel isn't when you're just mooching. They also have a far better ride/handling than a C class or E class and are altogether a superior car.

For the last ten years I've owned diseasals and since I got my Lexus I realise I've made terrible motoring choices over that decade. The car is smooth, sonorous, reliable, better to drive, more comfortable, better made than any Mercedes diesel. I wish I got one sooner, like a lot sooner.

A GS250, IS250, RCF, GS-F would be amazing for you.

Edited by st4 on Sunday 6th January 13:03


Edited by st4 on Sunday 6th January 13:06


Edited by st4 on Sunday 6th January 13:07


Edited by st4 on Sunday 6th January 13:29
Thanks for the info that’s very helpful.

I have never really heard anyone on here say they get a genuine 40+ mpg from a Lexus with the 2.5, but the optimist in me likes to think that it would... I have quite a heavy right foot though and I’m often running late for work so I don’t hang around, which kills the economy.

My budget is around £8k so I’d probably be looking at the IS250 at this budget, but can get some fantastic examples.

That being said, this is the first time I’ve read anything bad about the mercs and the 350 engine in particular really. I have driven one albeit briefly and enjoyed the torque and the 7 speed ‘box. How does the gearbox in the Lexus compare do you think?

Monkeylegend

26,227 posts

230 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
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CX53 said:
That being said, this is the first time I’ve read anything bad about the mercs and the 350 engine in particular really. I have driven one albeit briefly and enjoyed the torque and the 7 speed ‘box. How does the gearbox in the Lexus compare do you think?
As you might have realised st4 has, and has had for a long time, an anti Merc agenda and does not waste any opportunity to tell people how bad he thinks they are.

He used to spout the same rubbish over on MBUK forum until he got banned.

Read it with a pinch of salt and make your own mind up smile

steve-5snwi

8,593 posts

92 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
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The mileage wouldn't put me off, there is a reason why there are a lot of mercedes taxis about in the Canaries, the highest we have been passenger in was 990,000km .... it felt fine.


st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Sunday 6th January 2019
quotequote all
CX53 said:
Thanks for the info that’s very helpful.

I have never really heard anyone on here say they get a genuine 40+ mpg from a Lexus with the 2.5, but the optimist in me likes to think that it would... I have quite a heavy right foot though and I’m often running late for work so I don’t hang around, which kills the economy.

My budget is around £8k so I’d probably be looking at the IS250 at this budget, but can get some fantastic examples.

That being said, this is the first time I’ve read anything bad about the mercs and the 350 engine in particular really. I have driven one albeit briefly and enjoyed the torque and the 7 speed ‘box. How does the gearbox in the Lexus compare do you think?
I drive with a very gentle foot - all my cars comfortably exceed the combined mpg figures and I usually get close to the quoted extra urban figures. I’m quite light on the car a lot of the time.

I’ve owned 3 cars with the 7 speed. Two had serious shifting problems and one was sublime.

The S class would flare the 1 into 2 shift and badly jerk 4 to 5 in kickdown. A new electroplate totally fixed the 4 to 5 but not the 1 to 2. It always jerked the 2 into 1. The 2nd E I had jerked very bad 1 into 2 and naturally 3 dealers couldn’t fix it - that’s the type of lousy service you can expect. The 3rd E class had an extraordinary good example of the 7g and in my 32k miles with it not one bad shift. Plenty else went wrong but not that.

The A960e transmission in the Lexus isn’t as good as the one in the 3rd E. It’s much more “slushy” and drops too readily. I’ve put 12k on the Lexus and recall 2 occasions of it engaging ever so slightly clunkily (not harshly) and one lumpy down shift. It’s not faulty but it’s the cars weakest link...

Except when driving in a very sporty way. If you engage M mode it throttle blips on down shift and also changes far more quickly up/down when in sport mode as opposed to eco. For performance driving the transmission wakes up and is awesome. In day to day use the Merc definitely chose it’s gears better but driving up an alpine pass the Lexus with the paddle shift or in sport makes the gearbox come alive.

Not one reported fault on the UK forum with that transmission in the Lexus either.



Edited by st4 on Sunday 6th January 21:54

was8v

Original Poster:

1,927 posts

194 months

Monday 7th January 2019
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st4 said:
Why - because even if both are well maintained one is fundamentally very badly designed with poor components and the other is exceptionally well designed and built with good components.
Ho hum thanks for your input.

But they sold 12671 Lexi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwsBV2EgJ-E) to 180970 Mercedes in the UK in 2017 so given all things equal there will be more than ten times as many people with broken Mercs as Lexus.

I guess I will just go and check out a high miler when when comes up locally and if its nice I will buy it!

I do agree it is a shame Lexus don't make an estate.

Monkeylegend

26,227 posts

230 months

Monday 7th January 2019
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was8v said:
Ho hum thanks for your input.

But they sold 12671 Lexi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwsBV2EgJ-E) to 180970 Mercedes in the UK in 2017 so given all things equal there will be more than ten times as many people with broken Mercs as Lexus.

I guess I will just go and check out a high miler when when comes up locally and if its nice I will buy it!

I do agree it is a shame Lexus don't make an estate.
Make sure it has a verifiable service history and the AFT has been changed at the correct intervals and you shouldn't go far wrong. These Mercs are built for high mileages and will do them with ease.

st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
was8v said:
Ho hum thanks for your input.

But they sold 12671 Lexi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwsBV2EgJ-E) to 180970 Mercedes in the UK in 2017 so given all things equal there will be more than ten times as many people with broken Mercs as Lexus.

I guess I will just go and check out a high miler when when comes up locally and if its nice I will buy it!

I do agree it is a shame Lexus don't make an estate.
Great shame - they’ll do you an SUV but sadly not an estate. It’s a very Americanised range (that’s really the captive market) where estates just aren’t popular.

I take your point but per 100 cars Lexus have far fewer faults than Mercedes. It’s why they always win awards. And the dealers, I can only say good things about them - honestly as an ownership experience they are as good as it gets.

was8v

Original Poster:

1,927 posts

194 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
Make sure it has a verifiable service history and the AFT has been changed at the correct intervals and you shouldn't go far wrong. These Mercs are built for high mileages and will do them with ease.
Do you mean ATF transmission fluid?

Cheers. I need to await one popping up localish and then check it out thoroughly.

Monkeylegend

26,227 posts

230 months

Monday 7th January 2019
quotequote all
was8v said:
Monkeylegend said:
Make sure it has a verifiable service history and the AFT has been changed at the correct intervals and you shouldn't go far wrong. These Mercs are built for high mileages and will do them with ease.
Do you mean ATF transmission fluid?

Cheers. I need to await one popping up localish and then check it out thoroughly.
Yes.

Good luck with the search.

yellowbentines

5,296 posts

206 months

Monday 7th January 2019
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st4 said:
I’ve owned 5 Mercedes cars and 4 had serious issues
Why did you keep buying them?

Genuine question. You've completely rubbished everything about Mercedes - the drive, the ride, rust, gearboxes, noisy ponderous diesels, bad dealerships etc etc etc.

Yet you went back and bought them again and again? Something doesnt sound right there.

st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Tuesday 8th January 2019
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yellowbentines said:
Why did you keep buying them?

Genuine question. You've completely rubbished everything about Mercedes - the drive, the ride, rust, gearboxes, noisy ponderous diesels, bad dealerships etc etc etc.

Yet you went back and bought them again and again? Something doesnt sound right there.
I was young and stupid was the main reason but it was the car I always dreamed of. When I was a little boy a Mercedes was the car I dreamed of owning. I always promised myself one.

A “friends” father had one and I only really hung around with the kid so I’d get to go in the car at weekends. I loved that thing, the roar of the engine when he did special accelerations in it and the hushed ride. The guy looking back drove like a physco but that car left a memory.

The second reason I kept buying them was the reputation-I had convinced myself I kept getting lemons and my next one would be good. Due to Internet forums I bought fully into this “barely ran in at 100k miles” and a car of “unrivalled build quality” and “lots of chauffeur drivers do big miles in them” - you know the usual man on the Internet sound bites that get trotted out whenever someone is about to commit an act of sheer lunacy and buy a super shed.

You raise a good question about the drive and dealers - I latterly used an independent for servicing. They were good but the bills were still shocking- mainly due to the expensive parts and frequency of things failing on it (6 injectors at 500 per piece) etc. I never tried a superior Lexus but when I did I realised just badly the E class drove and how the “magic carpet ride” of an S class is overdone. My GS rides just as well and comfortable out handles my old C class sports never mind the E.

I’ve owned 5 - I’ve given them so many chances but all have been riddled with issues. Co-workers (before I went self employed) had issues with them - Christ everyone I knew practically had issues. A mate even said his 10yr old Range Rover was better behaved than his 5yo C class. He now has a Volvo and guess what. He’s having a rust and breakdown free life.

I’ve had my fingers burnt enough times to know these are not cars of quality - no German car is - and you’re better off in a reliable Japanese or Korean car. Don’t buy the guff either somehow these are bland and boring white goods cars and a Mercedes is an interesting car. There’s nothing interesting or special about a sold by the million poorly manufactured 4 clyinder eurobox just because it has a chrome star on the nose.

I’ve nothing against old cars - I have a 2005 RAV4 and 2013 Lexus but these are cars of quality and it took owning a RAV4 as a second car to fully wake up to the fact that actually - Mercedes are st.



Edited by st4 on Tuesday 8th January 10:21

RoystonVasey

45 posts

199 months

Wednesday 9th January 2019
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I have owned a 2013 e220d from new and have covered 65k miles so far. In that time the only bills other than routine servicing have been front brake pads and a set of front wiper blades.

It is not very exciting and surprisingly thirsty, but it is comfortable, and has been 100% reliable.

longblackcoat

5,047 posts

182 months

Friday 11th January 2019
quotequote all
st4 said:
yellowbentines said:
Why did you keep buying them?

Genuine question. You've completely rubbished everything about Mercedes - the drive, the ride, rust, gearboxes, noisy ponderous diesels, bad dealerships etc etc etc.

Yet you went back and bought them again and again? Something doesnt sound right there.
I was young and stupid was the main reason but it was the car I always dreamed of. When I was a little boy a Mercedes was the car I dreamed of owning. I always promised myself one.

A “friends” father had one and I only really hung around with the kid so I’d get to go in the car at weekends. I loved that thing, the roar of the engine when he did special accelerations in it and the hushed ride. The guy looking back drove like a physco but that car left a memory.

The second reason I kept buying them was the reputation-I had convinced myself I kept getting lemons and my next one would be good. Due to Internet forums I bought fully into this “barely ran in at 100k miles” and a car of “unrivalled build quality” and “lots of chauffeur drivers do big miles in them” - you know the usual man on the Internet sound bites that get trotted out whenever someone is about to commit an act of sheer lunacy and buy a super shed.

You raise a good question about the drive and dealers - I latterly used an independent for servicing. They were good but the bills were still shocking- mainly due to the expensive parts and frequency of things failing on it (6 injectors at 500 per piece) etc. I never tried a superior Lexus but when I did I realised just badly the E class drove and how the “magic carpet ride” of an S class is overdone. My GS rides just as well and comfortable out handles my old C class sports never mind the E.

I’ve owned 5 - I’ve given them so many chances but all have been riddled with issues. Co-workers (before I went self employed) had issues with them - Christ everyone I knew practically had issues. A mate even said his 10yr old Range Rover was better behaved than his 5yo C class. He now has a Volvo and guess what. He’s having a rust and breakdown free life.

I’ve had my fingers burnt enough times to know these are not cars of quality - no German car is - and you’re better off in a reliable Japanese or Korean car. Don’t buy the guff either somehow these are bland and boring white goods cars and a Mercedes is an interesting car. There’s nothing interesting or special about a sold by the million poorly manufactured 4 clyinder eurobox just because it has a chrome star on the nose.

I’ve nothing against old cars - I have a 2005 RAV4 and 2013 Lexus but these are cars of quality and it took owning a RAV4 as a second car to fully wake up to the fact that actually - Mercedes are st.



Edited by st4 on Tuesday 8th January 10:21
I currently run two Mercedes - a 2006 E220CDI and a 2010 S320CDI. The former is just about to tick over 200k miles, the latter is barely started at 110k.

I've owned the E-Class for the past five years and have put 100k miles on it in that time. Other than the headlights (non-Xenon) being a bit rubbish, I've had no issues. It's well screwed together, has been utterly reliable, and (unlike my previous high-mileage adventures with Audi, BMW and - especially - Land Rover) things have rarely worn out. It's also been relatively cheap to maintain, albeit at a specialist rather than the punitively expensive dealership. There's ZERO rust on it. I love the gearbox (the 5-speeder) and although the engine is a bit thrummy, it balances this with a genuine average of just under 40mpg and real mid-range punch. It's a keeper.

As for the Lexus GS? I've driven one for about 1200 miles over a week-long trip and it was perfectly fine. Thirsty, bland, and I disliked the interior styling, but overall it was a nice place to be. It didn't handle especially well, the brakes were just OK, and performance was nothing to write home about .... nothing particular to criticise, just nothing that stood out as being especially good. My S-Class, on the other hand....... Just sublime. I've done some very high-mileage days (over 1000 miles in a day) and it's been awesome. It has a fantastic ride, and steering that - for a very large car - is nothing short of astonishing. It simply doesn't feel anywhere as large as it actually is. It's got awesome seats, the world's best and most intuitive cruise control function, climate control that works utterly perfectly, and has a lovely engine note under acceleration (about the only time I've ever said that about a diesel). Couple that with an average over the last 5k of 34mpg and very reasonable servicing costs and you'll see why I love it to bits.

We all make our choices and have our preferences, and yours is clearly for a Lexus. But just because you didn't gel with the marque, don't assume everyone else has had the same experience or feels the same way. I'd never have a Lexus - not my sort of thing at all - but it doesn't mean I don't respect them.

was8v

Original Poster:

1,927 posts

194 months

Friday 11th January 2019
quotequote all
longblackcoat said:
I currently run two Mercedes - a 2006 E220CDI and a 2010 S320CDI. The former is just about to tick over 200k miles, the latter is barely started at 110k.

I've owned the E-Class for the past five years and have put 100k miles on it in that time. Other than the headlights (non-Xenon) being a bit rubbish, I've had no issues. It's well screwed together, has been utterly reliable, and (unlike my previous high-mileage adventures with Audi, BMW and - especially - Land Rover) things have rarely worn out. It's also been relatively cheap to maintain, albeit at a specialist rather than the punitively expensive dealership. There's ZERO rust on it. I love the gearbox (the 5-speeder) and although the engine is a bit thrummy, it balances this with a genuine average of just under 40mpg and real mid-range punch. It's a keeper.
My thinking is that if a 13 year old 200k miler still feels fresh then a 4 year old 200k miler will be even fresher.... Like I say my neighbours E class have been fresh at the mega mileages he has done in them.

Theres no getting around the E Class estate reputation for being the best estate car you can buy. At being just a mile munching estate car (not trying to be a lotus elise or a bugatti veyron at the same time) as far as I can tell they are not really rivalled. Which is why I want one.

Just considering whether to go for e.g. 4 years and 200k miles or an older car and 100k miles. I will have to try a few I guess.

Alex_225

6,234 posts

200 months

Monday 14th January 2019
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I can't comment on every example of a Mercedes out there but I bought my E Class with 104k on the clock.

I will have owned it three years this spring, it now has 131k on it and I'll be honest it still feels great. Yes, it is an early 2003 model and yes it has the older 3.2 straight six diesel and five speed box. It's not modern as such but it's brilliantly comfortable, everything works, the engine (now re-mapped) has always been excellent and is well spec'd.

It's had a couple of minor steering parts replaced, track rod end etc. But no MOT has really cost me and provided the car is maintained I can't see any reason why it would't be as good in another 50k or more.

pfnsht

2,134 posts

174 months

Monday 14th January 2019
quotequote all
was8v said:
Just considering whether to go for e.g. 4 years and 200k miles or an older car and 100k miles. I will have to try a few I guess.
I think it's got to be the 4 year old 200k example. Mileage is only part of the story. What you really want to see is how many hours the vehicle has been operating alongside regular maintenance.

The 4 year old 200k car is likely to have been operating for a lot less time than an 8 year old 100k example. At that sort of miles over 8 years the car has probably sat nose to tail in traffic, shunting forward every few minutes not getting very far = a lot operational hours and cold cycle starts (where most engine damage happens). The 4 year 200k car has probably lived a life of bliss on motorways just cruising along.




was8v

Original Poster:

1,927 posts

194 months

Monday 14th January 2019
quotequote all
pfnsht said:
I think it's got to be the 4 year old 200k example. Mileage is only part of the story. What you really want to see is how many hours the vehicle has been operating alongside regular maintenance.

The 4 year old 200k car is likely to have been operating for a lot less time than an 8 year old 100k example. At that sort of miles over 8 years the car has probably sat nose to tail in traffic, shunting forward every few minutes not getting very far = a lot operational hours and cold cycle starts (where most engine damage happens). The 4 year 200k car has probably lived a life of bliss on motorways just cruising along.


Thats an interesting way of putting it.

My 911 996 when you plug it into the durametric tool gives you the number of hours the engine has been operated.

But the ratio of operating hours to mileage could tell you a LOT about the cars usage, never thought of that.

A motorway usage car presumably would have a higher "lifetime average speed" than a town car.

Can you get an hours of operation figure out of a merc? icarsoft980?

Edited by was8v on Monday 14th January 21:25

longblackcoat

5,047 posts

182 months

Tuesday 15th January 2019
quotequote all
pfnsht said:
was8v said:
Just considering whether to go for e.g. 4 years and 200k miles or an older car and 100k miles. I will have to try a few I guess.
I think it's got to be the 4 year old 200k example. Mileage is only part of the story. What you really want to see is how many hours the vehicle has been operating alongside regular maintenance.

The 4 year old 200k car is likely to have been operating for a lot less time than an 8 year old 100k example. At that sort of miles over 8 years the car has probably sat nose to tail in traffic, shunting forward every few minutes not getting very far = a lot operational hours and cold cycle starts (where most engine damage happens). The 4 year 200k car has probably lived a life of bliss on motorways just cruising along.


A 4 year/200k example has averaged 1000 miles a week; although it's possible to do this in an urban or semi-urban environment, most likely this was a long-distance commuter or (and probably more likely) it's been a chauffeurdrive airport car. If it's been the former, then it'll almost certainly be in perfect condition as the owner will likely have just chucked it at the garage whenever anything needed doing and all will be well. I'd bit their hands off if the price was right, accepting that selling the car in a few years will be to a very limited market.

If the latter? I've spent a lot of time in the back of E and S-Class cars and some were well-maintained, some weren't. I always used to be amazed at the number that had warning lights in the display, or which said they were 93 days overdue a service, that sort of thing. I'd certainly not avoid this sort of car, just would want to be sure that it had a full and complete service history and see whether things like rear trim was all in good order, there are no tears in the seat fabric/leather, the boot is clean and undented/undamaged, etc.