What an odd car…. Mercedes A180
Discussion
I admit, I don’t drive “modern” cars all that much. But I have been in a few. I’ve just dropped my ’17 plate Smart ForTwo off at the Mercedes/Smart dealer for a service and have been given a new Mercedes A180 6 speed manual petrol to play with, as a courtesy car.
I think it is arguably one of the most unpleasant and dare I say it, hateful cars I’ve driven.
I know some may not agree with this. And superficially the car doesn’t look that bad on face value. The fit and finish and general tactile feel of the materials are all good. But, my word, what an ergonomic mess it is!
Never, in all my driving career have I sat in such uncomfortable seats. They look lovely and the material is nice, but they are nasty things to sit in. All of the manual controls seem difficult to get at or operate, such as the slider to move the seat back and forth. If my arm was 4 inches longer I might be able to reach it, without needing to headbutt the steering wheel.
And while on the subject of the steering wheel, this too is an oddity. Again, it looks nice on first sighting and the tactile touch of it is great. But, there doesn’t seem to be anywhere to actually put your hands on it!
If you use the “ten, to two” hold. You are straddling the stitching change, which is just uncomfortable. I prefer the “quarter to three” hold. But the metal from the controls then rubs your hands just below your thumbs. And your fingers end up on an uncomfortable ridge on the back of the spoke. Most odd, the wheel and the seat are the things a driver is in contact with the most in any vehicle. And they are appallingly bad in the A-class. How can a car maker get it so wrong?
The oddities don’t stop here either. On the way into work I was driving on a smooth dual carriage way, when you change lanes and run over a cats-eye, the most strange thing would happen. The steering wheel actually vibrates and jiggles. Maybe this is some kind of feature, but I’m not sure what it is for. The only way I can describe it is, when you leave your mobile phone face down on the desk and you get a text message and it vibrates. It makes the whole top of the desk vibrate, this is the exact same sensation. I tried the suspension in Sport and Comfort modes and the steering exhibited the same behaviour. If you missed the cats-eyes it didn’t do this.
The brake pedal is similarly odd. At first the brakes feel massively over assisted and way too sharp. Which they probably are. But in slow traffic you then notice that at the top of the pedal travel it feels like a momentary switch, as you gently come on or off the brake pedal. There is definitely a “click” type feel on the pedal. The result is, the car is a nasty jerky mess in traffic. It really is not nice.
The throttle pedal too seems to have inherited oddness as well. Firstly, the travel feels far too short. Closed throttle to wide open seems to be hardly any movement at all. And at the bottom of the travel it has a distinct click as a switch is activated. This causes resistance to the pedal and makes the travel feel lumpy as you have to push harder to overcome this additional resistance. Once again, I’m unsure what the purpose of this is. It’s a manual car, so can’t have anything to do with “kick-down” for the gearbox. And activating this switch on the throttle peal appeared to have no impact on what the car was doing.
Other oddities, well I’m not tall, but even with the seat fairly low my head appeared to be quite close to the roof. The completely black roof lining was also miserable and oppressive, it makes you feel as though there is a dark cloud above you while you are driving. This is probably made worse, as I felt like I was sitting so high in the car. The windscreen also feels very slit like. And despite feeling like I’m sitting so high in the car, you can see absolutely nothing of the front of the car from the driver’s seat.
Buttons also seem to be randomly placed about the cabin. From sitting in the driver’s seat, you cannot see where the engine Start/Stop button is. Once you know it might be fine, but why hide it in the first place? It is a feature you will use twice at least every time you use the car.
Can you spot the Start/Stop button...
The handbrake is also a great example of poor thinking. Firstly, I still don’t understand the obsession with electronic handbrakes, they serve no practical purpose. And in the case of the A-class haven’t even resulted in more interior space, as there is just a blank in the centre console where one would expect to find a handbrake lever. But why oh why have Mercedes put the handbrake switch on the opposite side of the steering wheel from the gearstick? You pull up, reach out with your left hand and select neutral with the gearstick and the natural thing would be to use the same hand to then apply then handbrake, as more than likely your other hand is still on the steering wheel. But, no. This is not the Mercedes way, you have let go of the steering wheel with your other hand, “hey look Mamma, no hands…”, to then activate the handbrake. It just feels clunky and unnatural.
Found it!
The engine is harsh at higher revs, although it seems to go ok. And seems fairly smooth just pottering about. The gearbox is probably the best thing from a driving point of view, very nice gear selector and feel. Although if you are changing gear above 4000rpm and using the loud pedal, it becomes very jerky and really doesn’t like you to try and change gear quickly. Which again is something I find odd in a modern car. I think my 1979 Land Rover can produce quicker and smoother gear changes. And the gear lever throw in that physically moves from one county to another during gearchanges.
The UI and button layout is also hugely complex. I know modern cars have to be “digital” everything. And the dials are all an LCD screen that spreads to a secondary screen in the middle. If you have time to read the manual of have someone show you all the features, I’m sure it’s ok. But it is total information overload and doesn’t make for an intuitive interface. If you are jumping into a car, you really just want the important things being displayed and a quick easy way to interface with them. This is far too noisy and complex to allow you to do this and certainly not safe to interact with it while driving, unless you are very familiar with it.
I guess overall it is rather a shame. The car on paper probably isn’t bad at all. And maybe as a passenger you won’t notice most of the problems. But there are so many irritants. I could never drive a car like this daily, it’d drive me completely insane.
I think it is arguably one of the most unpleasant and dare I say it, hateful cars I’ve driven.
I know some may not agree with this. And superficially the car doesn’t look that bad on face value. The fit and finish and general tactile feel of the materials are all good. But, my word, what an ergonomic mess it is!
Never, in all my driving career have I sat in such uncomfortable seats. They look lovely and the material is nice, but they are nasty things to sit in. All of the manual controls seem difficult to get at or operate, such as the slider to move the seat back and forth. If my arm was 4 inches longer I might be able to reach it, without needing to headbutt the steering wheel.
And while on the subject of the steering wheel, this too is an oddity. Again, it looks nice on first sighting and the tactile touch of it is great. But, there doesn’t seem to be anywhere to actually put your hands on it!
If you use the “ten, to two” hold. You are straddling the stitching change, which is just uncomfortable. I prefer the “quarter to three” hold. But the metal from the controls then rubs your hands just below your thumbs. And your fingers end up on an uncomfortable ridge on the back of the spoke. Most odd, the wheel and the seat are the things a driver is in contact with the most in any vehicle. And they are appallingly bad in the A-class. How can a car maker get it so wrong?
The oddities don’t stop here either. On the way into work I was driving on a smooth dual carriage way, when you change lanes and run over a cats-eye, the most strange thing would happen. The steering wheel actually vibrates and jiggles. Maybe this is some kind of feature, but I’m not sure what it is for. The only way I can describe it is, when you leave your mobile phone face down on the desk and you get a text message and it vibrates. It makes the whole top of the desk vibrate, this is the exact same sensation. I tried the suspension in Sport and Comfort modes and the steering exhibited the same behaviour. If you missed the cats-eyes it didn’t do this.
The brake pedal is similarly odd. At first the brakes feel massively over assisted and way too sharp. Which they probably are. But in slow traffic you then notice that at the top of the pedal travel it feels like a momentary switch, as you gently come on or off the brake pedal. There is definitely a “click” type feel on the pedal. The result is, the car is a nasty jerky mess in traffic. It really is not nice.
The throttle pedal too seems to have inherited oddness as well. Firstly, the travel feels far too short. Closed throttle to wide open seems to be hardly any movement at all. And at the bottom of the travel it has a distinct click as a switch is activated. This causes resistance to the pedal and makes the travel feel lumpy as you have to push harder to overcome this additional resistance. Once again, I’m unsure what the purpose of this is. It’s a manual car, so can’t have anything to do with “kick-down” for the gearbox. And activating this switch on the throttle peal appeared to have no impact on what the car was doing.
Other oddities, well I’m not tall, but even with the seat fairly low my head appeared to be quite close to the roof. The completely black roof lining was also miserable and oppressive, it makes you feel as though there is a dark cloud above you while you are driving. This is probably made worse, as I felt like I was sitting so high in the car. The windscreen also feels very slit like. And despite feeling like I’m sitting so high in the car, you can see absolutely nothing of the front of the car from the driver’s seat.
Buttons also seem to be randomly placed about the cabin. From sitting in the driver’s seat, you cannot see where the engine Start/Stop button is. Once you know it might be fine, but why hide it in the first place? It is a feature you will use twice at least every time you use the car.
Can you spot the Start/Stop button...
The handbrake is also a great example of poor thinking. Firstly, I still don’t understand the obsession with electronic handbrakes, they serve no practical purpose. And in the case of the A-class haven’t even resulted in more interior space, as there is just a blank in the centre console where one would expect to find a handbrake lever. But why oh why have Mercedes put the handbrake switch on the opposite side of the steering wheel from the gearstick? You pull up, reach out with your left hand and select neutral with the gearstick and the natural thing would be to use the same hand to then apply then handbrake, as more than likely your other hand is still on the steering wheel. But, no. This is not the Mercedes way, you have let go of the steering wheel with your other hand, “hey look Mamma, no hands…”, to then activate the handbrake. It just feels clunky and unnatural.
Found it!
The engine is harsh at higher revs, although it seems to go ok. And seems fairly smooth just pottering about. The gearbox is probably the best thing from a driving point of view, very nice gear selector and feel. Although if you are changing gear above 4000rpm and using the loud pedal, it becomes very jerky and really doesn’t like you to try and change gear quickly. Which again is something I find odd in a modern car. I think my 1979 Land Rover can produce quicker and smoother gear changes. And the gear lever throw in that physically moves from one county to another during gearchanges.
The UI and button layout is also hugely complex. I know modern cars have to be “digital” everything. And the dials are all an LCD screen that spreads to a secondary screen in the middle. If you have time to read the manual of have someone show you all the features, I’m sure it’s ok. But it is total information overload and doesn’t make for an intuitive interface. If you are jumping into a car, you really just want the important things being displayed and a quick easy way to interface with them. This is far too noisy and complex to allow you to do this and certainly not safe to interact with it while driving, unless you are very familiar with it.
I guess overall it is rather a shame. The car on paper probably isn’t bad at all. And maybe as a passenger you won’t notice most of the problems. But there are so many irritants. I could never drive a car like this daily, it’d drive me completely insane.
Steering wheel vibration is a lane departure warning system - intended to reduce inattentive lane changes.
The throttle "switch" will be there as part of the speed limiter (cruise feature). Set it to 30mph and it won't let you exceed it, unless you push the pedal through the little clicky detente.
The jerky changes at high RPMs are down to trying to reduce emissions - very annoying. I recently drove a newish Fiesta which had a similar map, and getting a smooth change without using the clutch to reduce the revs was almost impossible, the revs simply won't drop by themselves fast enough.
In fairness to the dash display you have your speed and RPM clearly shown, even if you don't connect a phone/enter sat-nav etc etc.
The handbrake is a good point, although packaging benefits massively under the rear axle not having to route the cables around. I should also point out that all Mercedes in RHD have the handbrake on the right going back to... I think the w123?
Your points about the wheel and seats are interesting, sounds like it's all show and no comfort.
The throttle "switch" will be there as part of the speed limiter (cruise feature). Set it to 30mph and it won't let you exceed it, unless you push the pedal through the little clicky detente.
The jerky changes at high RPMs are down to trying to reduce emissions - very annoying. I recently drove a newish Fiesta which had a similar map, and getting a smooth change without using the clutch to reduce the revs was almost impossible, the revs simply won't drop by themselves fast enough.
In fairness to the dash display you have your speed and RPM clearly shown, even if you don't connect a phone/enter sat-nav etc etc.
The handbrake is a good point, although packaging benefits massively under the rear axle not having to route the cables around. I should also point out that all Mercedes in RHD have the handbrake on the right going back to... I think the w123?
Your points about the wheel and seats are interesting, sounds like it's all show and no comfort.
Edited by Krikkit on Wednesday 9th January 11:49
Sounds like you may not be indicating on the carriageway - most modern cars have a "lane departure warning" which typically is personified by a shaking steering wheel or similar. Indicating before making the move should de-activate it temporarily.
I was not at all a fan of the previous generation, and did a fairly well received 25 minute rant on why the CLA45 was everything wrong with modern cars. Doesn't look like they have improved.
I was not at all a fan of the previous generation, and did a fairly well received 25 minute rant on why the CLA45 was everything wrong with modern cars. Doesn't look like they have improved.
Why does the title of the thread start Re: ? Odd.
Anyway, as for the car it just goes to show how important test drives are. This Merc looks pretty good on paper but obviously not for you. The tech you'd get used to with time, the brakes generally something you also get used to but if the seats aren't comfortable and you don't like the steering wheel then you'd never be happy with it.
Not a bad set of wheels for a loan car though, certainly a step up from the old A-Class.
Edit to add - is that the parking brake switch on the steering wheel? Weird stuff.
Anyway, as for the car it just goes to show how important test drives are. This Merc looks pretty good on paper but obviously not for you. The tech you'd get used to with time, the brakes generally something you also get used to but if the seats aren't comfortable and you don't like the steering wheel then you'd never be happy with it.
Not a bad set of wheels for a loan car though, certainly a step up from the old A-Class.
Edit to add - is that the parking brake switch on the steering wheel? Weird stuff.
Edited by Smiljan on Wednesday 9th January 11:49
I have a 2016 one which has a lot of similarities so can comment on a few points you raise. It's all personal opinion of course
Uncomfortable seats - Think it'll take time to adjust to what's comfortable to you. That being said it's a poverty spec one you refer to. I think my A250 seats are superb.
Vibrating steering - I think this is lane assist, a warning to tell you you are veering out our your lane. It's a saftey measure to stop people dropping off at the wheel on the motorway.
Brake pedal oddities. Nothing I've experienced but it might well be the start stop regeneration system doing the intial braking that your feeling. Something I don't notice, but maybe I've got used to it?
Throttle pedal, sounds like there's some carpet or something fouling it. I think the travel length is an issue because the seat hasn't been adjusted to your liking? To be fair the A class is far better as an auto which is why the steering wheel is also set up for a quarter to 3 position so the paddles are accessible.
Don't see the issue with the Start stop button. if it's a start button then you shouldn't be hitting it whilst you are driving accesibility shouldn't be easy to prevent inadvertent activation. If it's the switch to deactivate the start stop system then you hardly ever need to use it and again only need to when you're actually stopped surely?
other button ergonomics I cant really comment on. When I got my Merc it was all a bit different but got used to it and now find it pretty sensible.
Think the electronic parking brake is the same as mine. It's not a handbrake. The car has auto hold which replaces the handbrake for driving use(makes more sense with an auto box though). Jab the brakes when stationary and the hold assist activates. That puts the "handbrake" on and stops the car moving until the accelerator or brake is pressed again. The electronic parking brake should only be used when leaving the car. It'll actually automatically apply if you open the door so in theory you never need to touch the button.
Engine probably is harsh it's a Renault one isn't it? As I said I have the 2016 A250 and it's smooth as butter.
I think a lot of what you've reported is personal preference though. Interesting thoughts.
Uncomfortable seats - Think it'll take time to adjust to what's comfortable to you. That being said it's a poverty spec one you refer to. I think my A250 seats are superb.
Vibrating steering - I think this is lane assist, a warning to tell you you are veering out our your lane. It's a saftey measure to stop people dropping off at the wheel on the motorway.
Brake pedal oddities. Nothing I've experienced but it might well be the start stop regeneration system doing the intial braking that your feeling. Something I don't notice, but maybe I've got used to it?
Throttle pedal, sounds like there's some carpet or something fouling it. I think the travel length is an issue because the seat hasn't been adjusted to your liking? To be fair the A class is far better as an auto which is why the steering wheel is also set up for a quarter to 3 position so the paddles are accessible.
Don't see the issue with the Start stop button. if it's a start button then you shouldn't be hitting it whilst you are driving accesibility shouldn't be easy to prevent inadvertent activation. If it's the switch to deactivate the start stop system then you hardly ever need to use it and again only need to when you're actually stopped surely?
other button ergonomics I cant really comment on. When I got my Merc it was all a bit different but got used to it and now find it pretty sensible.
Think the electronic parking brake is the same as mine. It's not a handbrake. The car has auto hold which replaces the handbrake for driving use(makes more sense with an auto box though). Jab the brakes when stationary and the hold assist activates. That puts the "handbrake" on and stops the car moving until the accelerator or brake is pressed again. The electronic parking brake should only be used when leaving the car. It'll actually automatically apply if you open the door so in theory you never need to touch the button.
Engine probably is harsh it's a Renault one isn't it? As I said I have the 2016 A250 and it's smooth as butter.
I think a lot of what you've reported is personal preference though. Interesting thoughts.
Edited by hornmeister on Wednesday 9th January 12:05
Edited by hornmeister on Wednesday 9th January 12:06
Sounds fairly typical of a modern car to me, and by and large the bigs which aren't purely personal preference reflect what most buyers want. Stupidly over-servoed brakes and daft shaped steering wheels are both pet hates of mine, but manufacturers don't fit them because they want to annoy me - people like them.
Vibrating as said is the lane assist. Turn it off
Gear change thing, probably the clutch delay valve
Ive just bought a brand new fiesta stline 140 as a daily which im pleased with and it handles well actually. BUT it has a clutch delay valve which makes changing gear difficult when wanting to press on. Saves stress on the drive line apparently, utterly absurd.
Just shows how un-interested in driving people are these days. In eco mode my fiesta is enough to make you fall asleep or at a minimum just lose concentration, throttle lag is so lapse its almost dangerous.
Gear change thing, probably the clutch delay valve
Ive just bought a brand new fiesta stline 140 as a daily which im pleased with and it handles well actually. BUT it has a clutch delay valve which makes changing gear difficult when wanting to press on. Saves stress on the drive line apparently, utterly absurd.
Just shows how un-interested in driving people are these days. In eco mode my fiesta is enough to make you fall asleep or at a minimum just lose concentration, throttle lag is so lapse its almost dangerous.
DaveTheRave87 said:
The location of the handbrake switch makes a lot of sense on a left hand drive car. I guess they couldn't be bothered changing it for our market.
It's a Mercedes tradition to put the parking brake there. I'm sat in my 2004 right now, the parking brake is engaged by a pedal to the left of the service brake, and the release is by my right knee. I think the pedal is on the left in a LHD too, with the release by the left knee.Rover used to put the parking brake by the right knee too.
I think the truth is probably down to a lack of familiarity with that car based on a lot of the responses and also a bit of pointing out how terrible modern cars are, which is always a crowd pleaser, I am sure Mercedes probably havent produced an absolute Turkey.
I had a quick look in my sons mates one and he was certainly enjoying it, I thought the dash looked great. these have a decently torquey turbo 4, how bad can it really be ? might not be exciting but I reckon it would be fairly easy to live with day to day.
I do think sometimes we slag modern, more workaday stuff off and over eulogise some older stuff which is actually a bit of a pain a lot of the time.
I had a quick look in my sons mates one and he was certainly enjoying it, I thought the dash looked great. these have a decently torquey turbo 4, how bad can it really be ? might not be exciting but I reckon it would be fairly easy to live with day to day.
I do think sometimes we slag modern, more workaday stuff off and over eulogise some older stuff which is actually a bit of a pain a lot of the time.
Most annoying thing about the A-class, for me, was the awful visibility out of it. Pillars are enormous, rear screen is tiny.
My mate stopped by in his Peugeot 106 Rallye at the weekend, and I'd forgotten how good the visibility out of cars was back then. Reminded me of my old Prelude, excellent all round vision.
My mate stopped by in his Peugeot 106 Rallye at the weekend, and I'd forgotten how good the visibility out of cars was back then. Reminded me of my old Prelude, excellent all round vision.
jayemm89 said:
Sounds like you may not be indicating on the carriageway - most modern cars have a "lane departure warning" which typically is personified by a shaking steering wheel or similar.
That was my first thought, but300bhp/ton said:
If you missed the cats-eyes it didn’t do this.
Gassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff